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Author Topic: Surreal Guide...manual?  (Read 262 times)

Sonrics

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Surreal Guide...manual?
« on: January 07, 2004, 07:02:00 AM »

Hi, just wanna thank all the DEVS of Surreal and ask the rest of us(users) to make a guide or simple manual for this great emu... for instance I dont know what the heck to do with the mem settings, and pagefiles and all that that show in the settings...! maybe I can improve the compatibility(speed) with some roms...?
 Tnx.
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Favonius

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Surreal Guide...manual?
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2004, 07:17:00 AM »

I completely agree.  If the devs could give us some info into how the settings will/should affect games that would be great
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Sonrics

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Surreal Guide...manual?
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2004, 07:46:00 AM »

I prefer leave this to the users since the devs are pretty busy in the inside of the emu(code), but some users seem to know what exaclty to do adjusting the mem and audio settings...!? and I know me and Favonius are not the only ones that doesnt know s#%t about the settings screen....
TnX again

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Favonius

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Surreal Guide...manual?
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2004, 07:14:00 AM »

I guess when i said devs i really didn't mean devs sorry, just somebody with some understanding of how the mem settings work.  Or anbody else who has figured it out  biggrin.gif
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Iriez

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Surreal Guide...manual?
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2004, 08:59:00 AM »

It breaks down to this..

Most of the games should run fine with the default settings.

For audio you only have two choices, Azimer, which is the audio source from apollo used with jttl's SDL sound output, or PJ RSP, which is the basic audio plugin with LLE.

If a game is not playing (as in loads and freezes, or runs slow) you may be able to tweak the preformance by adjusting the memory settings.

The best way to go about this is to load the game, and turn on the debug display by right clicking on the analog stick and selecting it.

This will display how much memory is free. Start playing your game and keep in mind how much is free.

A example would be...super smash brothers. Ingame while your playing you have say.. 7.5MB free on average.

Quit the game and go back to the romlist and go into the settings.

The default setting should be 4MB video.

For 1964 dyna should be 8mb, and paging 4mb.
For PJ64 dyna should be 16mb, and paging 4mb

Now you will want to adjust your settings dependant upon which emulator you used.

Keep in mind that in order for the menu ingame to display correctly, you need atleast 4mb free. With 7.5 mb free on our example, that would give you 3.5 mb to play with, if you want the menu to show. If you dont give a damn about the menu, then i would suggest only going as low as 2mb free, which would give you 5.5Mb to play with.

The most noticable impact you will see is by increasing the dyna. Only in very few games (like super smash brothers and banjo tooie that comes to mind) need alot of video memory for textures. You'll notice some backgrounds missing in SSB if your video setting is too low.

So, by default, say in 1964 you have 8mb dyna. You have anywhere from 3.5-5.5 MB to play with. My suggestion would be to trial and error and see what does best for you. Try increasing the dyna by 4mb first, and see if that improves your preformance. If that doesnt work, increase it by 2, and increase the paging by 2. If that doesnt improve, drop the paging to 2mb and increase the dyna by 6mb.

Some games, like perfect dark, simply need more memory than a 64mb xbox can provide with the current core. It needs about 16mb dyna and 16mb paging in order to run smooth.

In some cases you can drop the paging to 1mb without a noticable difference. This may increase stuttering, or draw the FPS to nothing when trying to load a level/scene/texture that requires large memory.

If you have anymore questions please ask.
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Sonrics

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Surreal Guide...manual?
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2004, 01:40:00 PM »

Thanks Iriez for reply so extend.., it seems that already I am going to understand a little more of this magnifiscent EMU  and have a little margin to make it more flexible.
  tnx again.
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Joshua Wood

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Surreal Guide...manual?
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2004, 01:58:00 PM »

Cheers for the guide Irez, but I'm still a little confused.... Maybe answers to a few questions will help things:

1) dyna memory = what? Dynamic mem? Used for what?

2) Paging mem - what is this used for? This is used for the textures/video I'm guessing?

A distinction between the two would be really useful.

3) Std xbox has 64mb mem - so does this mean it works like this:

say you have a 20mb rom...that leaves 44mb free, which leaves 40mb free allowing 4mb for the ingame menu. Some of this 40 will be taken up by the emu, the rest is to be divided between dyna and paging memory? (hence increasing one beyond what is free means you need to decrease the other, as you mention)

How does the VMM affect all this?
I uderstand the concept of combined/shared memory, much like onboard video on the PC - you can set how much to use as video (paging?) memory, the rest is system mem.

Otherwise I think I pretty much understand it, and know the best order to try out the different settings, cheers.
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lantus

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Surreal Guide...manual?
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2004, 02:15:00 PM »

dyna mem is for the 'Dynamic Recompiler' : the process of generating native n64 code from x86 instructions and executing it. Its much faster than normal interpreted code (emulation of each CPU instruction, registers, I/O etc).

the dynarec is an important part of the emulator, and the more memory allocated the better because more code would be generated and executed on a smaller dynarec buffer, whereas in a larger one they are already available in memory to be executed.

paging mem: because its impossible to fit an entire ROM into the Xbox memory space "paging mem" determines how much of the rom will be in memory at any time. i.e if we have 4 megs of paging mem and we load conkers (64mb). 4 meg of Conkers will be in Xbox memory , and the remaining 60 Mb will require to be loaded from disk. The disk portion is the "pagefile".

The pagefile , however is the entire contents of the rom. So its 64mb and not 60mb. Why? because we dont know what portion of the rom will require to be loaded in next.

hope this helps

This post has been edited by lantus: Jan 7 2004, 10:16 PM
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Joshua Wood

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Surreal Guide...manual?
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2004, 02:59:00 PM »

Cheers Lantus, that's great, it's explains exactly what I needed to know. I now understand how the variances between dyna and paging mem will affect different games depending on their rom size/processing power. Much thanks.
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ninja friend

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Surreal Guide...manual?
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2004, 05:58:00 PM »

First of all, I was wondering if someone who knows about these things could give me a little information on the memory settings. I can obviously switch between the emus myself to see which one is going to work out the best, but I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing when I'm tweaking the memory settings.
How does the Max Video Memory work?
What is Dynarec Memory?
What is Paging Memory?

Is there a rule or theory to setting these values? As of now, I have no idea what I'm doing, or what I'm trying to do, with these values.

Also, is there a way to move the icons around on the main menu (for Surreal). My TV overscans like a mofo, and some of the stuff on the right side of my TV is partially clipped-off. I need to slide those bad boys over, if possible.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks.

ph34r.gif
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ninja friend

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Surreal Guide...manual?
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2004, 06:15:00 PM »

Ah, now I see the new pinned thread.

Iriez: Please delete/move this thread at your liesure, as your pinned thread covers this topic. Thanks.

ph34r.gif
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