Print

[ryan44934]

I think i agree. I have no problem with emu's being worked on while a console is out and even let out to the public as prrof of concept......UNTILL it is able to play retail games. For example CXBX isnt hurting the xbox....yet. However in a few months to a year it could be. CXBX to me is fine right now but if they release one that does play retail games it could become an economic problem for MS. Now we all know micrsoft has plenty of money but they are losing money on the consoles and it DOES cost MS money to sue people (we just dont think about that). When coupled with loss of game revenue and lawyers' fees, suddenly the gaming market may not appeal to MS as it does at the moment. Bill Gaqtes is in this market to make money not to play games.

That said I doubt any of this disscussion will greatly effect any developer working on current systems.

PS. the only problem with continuing to develop an emu while the system is still out is that eventually it will be leaked. It just happens.

--Ryan

[bbagnall]

QUOTE (elnino2783 @ Jun 3 2003, 09:16 PM)

I don't think there should be a PS2 emulator, but it would be cool to have a GTA emulatpr

OT: I'm still holding out for a Commodore CD32 emulator! Actually, I think UAEX might be able to do CD32 by substituting the kickstart1.3 ROM with the CD32 ROM (which I happen to have). The problem is there would presumably be no CD support... I don't think UAE allows the DVD drive to be accessed.

[deusprogrammer]

I really wish people would bother to read my whole posts.  I never said that programmers shouldn't program the emulator.  As my name infers I am a programmer too, so I am not some stupid teenager who thinks an emulator can be crapped out over night.  I have been working on a PC RPG I am thinking of porting to the XBox for over 3 years now.  I know it's not easy, and I know why the programmers do it.  They mainly want to prove it can be done and do it for their own amusement.  They don't do it for money or to upset the balance...they do it because they can.  I have no problem with someone programming a PS2 or an XBox emulator...more power to them...but releasing that code is irresponsible.  In 2 or 3 years a PS2 emulator would be great.  But not now...it's not needed.

As for the hypocricy claim by some of the members...let me say that with me things aren't just black and white.  Things for me are greyscale.  I see some things as "more wrong" than others.  Emulation in itself is illegal, and I accept this and do it anyways.  But I do also believe that sometimes it is going too far.  When you emulate older systems...no one really cares, and you don't hurt anyone.  I think vintage emulation pays tribute to older systems we can no longer play anymore...either because ours doesn't work or we can't find the systems/games.  The video game industry no longer profits from Super Nintendo or Atari.  It does however profit from PSOne, PS2, XBox and Gamecube.

You know...so many things on this forum are illegal...hell things we do in life are illegal most of the time.  The rule is you can push law a little bit...but sometimes people go way too far in my opinion.

As for the people who can't accept that other people have differing opinions from them...don't treat me like I'm stupid just because I feel differently about this subject than you.  On the contrary, I will RESPECT your opinion to disagree.  And I find plenty of good points in all of your posts.  That's why this is a friendly debate.  I didn't want to go for blood, but a couple of you seemed to have to essentially call me stupid...I don't appreciate that.

Mage on the other hand I respect, because he has never resorted to calling me stupid.  He shows true intelligence and maturity.  Thank you Mage and sorry for anything I may have ever said to piss you off.

And for the rest of the forum, anything I have ever said or done that is immature or mean, I apologize sincerely for it and I will be a more serious member of the community.  I really do want to be respected.

[deusprogrammer]

Sorry to dredge up this topic again, but I think the current situation with Kawa-X and it's restrictions on what games you can play fits into this topic.  I'm just glad to see that an emulator author is being responsible and imposing some restrictions on his work.

[dij]

QUOTE

Sega,Nintendo,Sony have never released any emulators and are most likely never will.

Didn't Sega buy an emulator and use it to release games on the PC?
I think it was DGEN, not sure though.

DIJ

[assmonkey]

if you don't like emu,
don't use them
that the freedom emu

[devlkore]

One question:

How many people that play games on any given system, ONLY via emulators and downloaded games would go and buy the system if the free/illegal option weren't available?

I think this is the important question because I for example play GameBoy Advance games on my Xbox, but do not own a single GBA cart or unit. However, if there were no GBA emulator for Xbox I'd rather go without than pay for it. Playstation on the other hand, I do/will pay for, I have a nice collection of PSX games and will carry on buying them, even though I no longer use my actual Playstation, I only play PCSXbox.
Therefore, me using the GBA emulator isn't hurting anyone, becuase I don't think the games/console is worth paying for and given only the option of purchasing the GBA itself, Nintendo wouldn't get any of my money.

On the Flipside, Sony would get more money out of me if there was a PS2 emulator for Xbox, 'cuz I'd actually go and buy PS2 games, but I don't want to spend £170 on the console.

LA!

I like hearing people's views on this.

[Iriez]

QUOTE (deusprogrammer @ Jun 3 2003, 10:54 PM)

Emulation in itself is illegal, and I accept this and do it anyways.

I agree with alot of your post, but definitly not this point, as it is false. Emulation is not illegal. I play alot of NES, SMS, and genesis carts that i own. That makes my emulation legal.

For those of you who are saying emulation of current systems hurts the console...

I think in very few instances (DC and possibly GBA) is this true. The plain fact of the situation is that emulator fans are a incredibly small percentage of the gaming scene. On top of that, even the users that are not aware of emulation....why the hell would they want to play these console games on their pc? I specifically did not get into emulation soley because of this fact. I did not use any emulators until they were ported on the xbox. For some odd reason playing console games on my pc strikes me as incredibly dull and boring.

I also think that the majority of emulation developers out there do it more for the technical exploration of it all, rather than the "playing games without buying them" concept.  I know that i personally look at emulation more of a 'cool factor' than a 'look i own the entire console now!'...factor.

So my stance on the situation, is emulate away. I highly doubt that emulation hurts developers, or increases piracy, so i really dont see anything wrong with it.

[shorty]

QUOTE (Iriez @ Aug 16 2003, 12:03 AM)

Emulation is not illegal. I play alot of NES, SMS, and genesis carts that i own. That makes my emulation legal.

Your are absolutley right Irez, however

In some countrys it is a grey area at the least to have copys of games, even ones that you rightly own.... those laws are just plain wrong, why the hell shouldnt we be allowed to copy what we own?

I guess you could apply the same logic to emulators, if the one in question contains the original bios.

If i were to be pickey (for lack of a better word) we could say that playing emulated games old or new that you would not otherwise pay for is still hurting developers......... why?

let me explain........ lets say you spend half of you free time playing them, well if you weren't you might be playing new games that you payed for. (a good point in my opinion, that i had never though about until now)

But my real opinion is that playing emulated games is all good, if the system/game in question is obsolete.

I do emulate alot myself, more for the wow factor than to actually play the game, technology just amazes me, i have only really ever properly played just a few emulated games, my favourite one is mario 64, the rest are much older.

I do totally respect the kawa-x author and his/her limitations, very thoughtfull!  

- Shorty

EDIT:: Having re-read Irez's post, he is right again, it only hurts them in a very small way as the vast majority of gamers do not know about/care to bother with emulators.