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[Banacek]

QUOTE (ruffles_x @ May 12 2003, 03:52 PM)

QUOTE Yes, I know - I need to truly update the webpage. In the meantime, some important things: Right click here and select "Save as..." to download the PCSX source changes for XBox. Rename the JPG file to a ZIP file. Right click here and select "Save as..." to download the Peops GPU source changes for XBox. Rename the JPG file to a ZIP file. Right click here and select "Save as..." to download the Peops SPU source changes for XBox. Rename the JPG file to a ZIP file. I wish to express apologies to Peter Bernert because I completely forgot to mention that I used his plugins in the XBox port of PCSX. At the very least I should have mentioned that in the NFO file. If anyone feels they have been wronged by previous unavailability of the above source code, then I apologize for that, too. In response to the flurry of message activity - I simply don't have the time to address the insanity on the forums right now. I'm listening, but that's all I'm doing for the moment. From the Xport Webpage There you have it, the guy finally apologised, now everybody be happy

Yay, he's done what he was supposed to. So no more problems.

[spaceboy]

......
Sound of shit hitting fan......
Phew! Hope this dont get tooo serious!

[luma]

nothing "serious" left to discuss.  he recieved a request for access to his modified source, and promptly made the source available.  end of story.

[boo_se]

good! with the source code released maybe we'll see some good updates of the psx emu in the future.

[PeteBernert]

As far as I can see the released ports of the P.E.Op.S. gpu/spu sources are free of any XDK copyright issues, so I can give my OK for the ported plugins. Of course linuzappz (main coder of pcsx) has to give his OK for the ported main emu as well.

On a sidenote: I like ports. There are many ports for my psx plugins available, for all kind of systems and operating systems. But usually I get asked before someone is releasing binaries from my GPL'd work. And this didn't happen at all this time, so of course I started to wonder what the hack is going on.

So, as long as only the plain sources are available to the public, without 'bundled' XDK libraries, or illegal compiled binaries, I think the GPL is fulfilled.

Nevertheless I will not get tired to mention that the xbox scene would be a much more comfortable place for hobby coders, if the scene would stop to press on illegal binaries (using the XDK), and concentrate on a free and legal XDK alternative first.

Last but not least: imho, a xbox is not fast enough (cpu-wise) to run all psx games at full speed with a soft gpu plugin like the P.E.Op.S. one. And activated frameskipping will cause jumpier displays and compatibility issues like missing battle screens or other glitches.

So, without an hw/accel gpu plugin (which, of course also has its compatibility issues, but a much better speed and improved graphics), the xbox psx emu will be not a real replacement for a PC psx emu (or, of course, a real psx console), I think.

[CyRUS64]

Also shouldn't he now release sources for all the other gpl'd ports he has made, not just the pcsx one!

On top of this, although I may be wrong, but doesn't the gpl state that he needs to release a fully compilable source set (ie: including his gui code/etc - everything to let someone compile it for themselves and run their own binaries on the x-box) and not just pull the standard 'gpl violator' trick of releasing 'source diffs' to the original code only.

[SweeneyTodd]

Jesus, people, go read the GPL before you rattle this crap off.

It protects GPLed code from getting incorporated into commercial products. XPort's work is along the line of 'hobby coding'. He is not beholden upon you to do a damn thing.

To be clear, I'm referring to Cyrus64 above me, and his brilliant idea that using GPL code in your project 'infects' it such that you must release all sources, even those that aren't derivative. This kind of thing was settled five years ago, man.

He did the right thing by properly crediting the plugin creator and releasing source diffs, but he doesn't owe anyone the ability to compile his entire application from raw source.

[guile]

QUOTE (CyRUS64 @ May 12 2003, 08:10 PM)

On top of this, although I may be wrong, but doesn't the gpl state that he needs to release a fully compilable source set (ie: including his gui code/etc - everything to let someone compile it for themselves and run their own binaries on the x-box) and not just pull the standard 'gpl violator' trick of releasing 'source diffs' to the original code only.

I'm starting to think you REALLY have a problem now.
g

[CyRUS64]

No, I'm just trying to make clear that people must adhere to the license that they agree to by porting someone else's work.. Note I did actually state 'I may be wrong' so was pretty much asking someone like Pete whether this was so.
Anyhow Pete seems happy so as long as Linuzappz is too then so am I.

However ALL his other gpl'd ports need source release too. I know the xbox scene may see this as being harsh but you must adhere to license agreements unless you get express permission to do otherwise from each of the contributors to the original source. Period.

[CyRUS64]

Hence if they are happy regarding pcsx then I am happy. However he has clearly ported many other emus, many, if not all, of which are under the gpl and therefore SHOULD have source releases too.
I hate the way this is seen as being petty by some who have no concern for these clear legal and moral issues. In the dc scene when on the rare occasion that someone did violate the gpl their binary-only release would NOT be supported or posted by any of the news sites until they honoured the gpl license, and thats how it should be.

[Iriez]

QUOTE

As for "legal actions," I'm sure the question of whoever's intellectual property rights will go over real well when in order to exercise those rights you had to step on the intellectual property rights of another (the emulator won't even run unless you've either changed the xbox's bios to run unsigned code and hence, infringed upon the manufacturer/developer's rights, or changed the box to use a different bios, and thus questionably did the same thing, as your ability to do so could be linked intrinsically to others' infringement-based research.)

Which shortened down, equals... (edit - lol i speelled it 'shorted')

QUOTE

The source isn't the issue, it's everyone feeling as though this apparent violation has somehow violated their inalienable right to possess shit to dick around with.  Let's be honest, even if the source code to this thing never gets released the GPL's basis won't have suffered at all.

Which is a point i've tried to make in the past, but couldnt quite spit out = ) You stole the thought from my brain and typed it correctly, yay  


I think its a excellent point, but definitly not the whole agenda. Really, it all comes down to respect. The legal battles will never happen, and its just empty bullshit theats anyhow. Until a OpenXDK with controller input support appears, it will stay this way.

It all comes down too...

Is Author A pissed ?

Does Author B agree with Author A ?

Does Author C instigate a huge developer rage against XPort or whoever, because of a disrespect issue?

Does anyone really give a fuck? I mean seriously, it all comes down to whether the original author cries about it. What XPort has done, very few current xbox developers will or can do. Theres not alot of fish in this sea. People like lantus and XPort have alot of experience working on the xbox platform, but theres not alot of people like XPort and lantus =)Releasing his source, quite honestly, i dont think will add to the development. The only case i can see where it will help the scene, is if he entirely quits the project and leaves large issues left.

Im not trying to say he shouldnt release the sources. I would like it if all authors did. Im just trying to say the whole issue is nulled. Theres nothing to argue. Points have been made, and clarified. These being..

A. Its illegal to release a port based on GPL protected sources, without releaseing the sources with it.

B. It really doesnt matter, because its ran on a DCMA illegal xbox, with a illegally obtained developement kit (unless XPort is a official developer, but then im sure theres some contract agreement that would prevent him from doing so). What does it matter when you grab a pack of gum when your already stealing some skittles? Its already illegal.

C. No one is going to take legal action against anyone from porting their code over and not releasing their sources. They can threaten all they want, but to just level with the world, and to step into reality for a moment (yea, i know its hard guys), no one is going to sue anyone over it.

D. I like pie

Please note that my opinions are from a personal standpoint, and to not take what i say, against the scene, or XPort, or anyone else. If you got beef with what i say, direct your anger towards me, and dont cry about how im the devil and how people like me ruin everything for everyone else. Remember, im joe dick, im nobody, im the guy just posting my opinion on this forum.

[CyRUS64]

guile: Well I personally know linuzappz, and an emu i've contributed to, daedalus, is also gpl'd and i wouldn't like it if someone used that code and didn't release the source to it.
For the third time the pcsx case is besides the point since the authors can speak for themselves here, but in general if you use a gpl codebase then you must release your source.

Iriez: one case is where I might not want to go onto illegal irc channels to download binaries from and instead having legal access to an xdk would like to compile them for myself.. consequently since the code is gpl I have the RIGHT to request source and be in a position to compile it myself - I can't email xport personally so my only way is to request it here.

You may think it has just gotten stupid Guile but we are continuing a discussion on the gpl and it shows a severe lack of respect for the orig.authors if he just ignores there licenses. I'm 100% sure Pete and others would agree with me.

[Iriez]

QUOTE (CyRUS64 @ May 12 2003, 03:03 PM)

Iriez: one case is where I might not want to go onto illegal irc channels to download binaries from and instead having legal access to an xdk would like to compile them for myself.. consequently since the code is gpl I have the RIGHT to request source and be in a position to compile it myself - I can't email xport personally so my only way is to request it here.

To argue a finer point, yes, that is a perfectly legitamite reason. However, i doubt your scarred about the legal issues, as im sure being into emu you have played many games you dont own ; ) I also doubt its a lazyness thing, since getting the bin off irc is faster than downloading the sources and compiling.

QUOTE

You may think it has just gotten stupid Guile but we are continuing a discussion on the gpl and it shows a severe lack of respect for the orig.authors if he just ignores there licenses. I'm 100% sure Pete and others would agree with me.

I would like to specify that argument.

I dont think its general disrespect to not release the sources in this situation, as the facts lie that, A. - It is already illegally compiled, B. you need a illegally modified xbox to run it. It is obviously a underground scene. Up until this point, *no one* has gotten ants in their pants about sources. Since there is no request for them, there is really no hurt done (disregarding the whole legal issues...we already know its illegal).

However, when a author specifically requests that the sources are made public, it would be complete disrespect not to release them.

I know, he should do it in the first place, GPL license, blah blah..etc etc. But you have to admit when there is no demand for it (it being underground anyways) that there is no hurt done. It did not hurt the GPL, it did not hurt the author(s), it did not hurt anyone, until ya guys got your feelings hurt over the morality issue because recent events came to light.

[kaioshade]

"gimme source, gimme source!!!!"

yes its gpl'ed but who cares?

what are half of you who are asking for the source going to do with it? not a damn thing.

[CyRUS64]

QUOTE

I totally understand what the problem is. Only thing is, it seems like the ONLY one with the problem is you

Ok fine, i'm not going to bother pursuing this then but just so long as you see my point-of-view.