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[feflicker]

QUOTE

but If i want to do everythinhg I do now on my Linux PC you'd have to REALLY learn and study

We can all agree with that (atleast for the very near future). The keyword used was *everything*. We are talking about running Windows vs. Linux on the xbox. It makes no sense to emulate Windows from the xbox, when you can do what you need with Linux (basic personal computing). Be realistic, you can install Linux on your xbox, and get it to emulate Windows, but can't take the time to learn a little more about Linux? See the point we are making here?

QUOTE

Is that why people need a walkthrough just to unpack a ZIP file or just to install a program?

Those same people come to this forum and ask what a ".rar" file is, so what is the difference?

Downloading and installing a program in Linux is the same as Windows. You download the installer package (.exe or .msi in windows, .rpm in Linux) and you double-click it and watch it install. What is the difference (other than the number of programs available)?

http://download.com....=linux&tg=dl-20

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I don't understand why so many people resist Linux... An OS is an OS. A file is a file. A directory is a directory. Etc.   I am not scared to learn anything new. Once you understand what an OS is/does, it is just *another platform*

Why pick one over the other because you "think it is easier". Easy is not always better! These people can spend countless hours playing video games and posting on the forum, but are too strapped for time to learn how to run another OS besides Windows?

Remember: Everyone signed up for AOL because it was "easier". Look where that got the internet!  

Everyone knows Windows. It is such a joke when I see that on a resume... But when I see Linux, that makes me think "this person might not be cattle".  

[thr3311jd]

[mxlegend99]

QUOTE (luther349 @ Jun 21 2003, 05:24 AM)

what bs. linux can run most windows game via winex but shhhhhhh he musent understand that at all. and abought 30% of all windoes apps run with standerd wine. as for linux vs windows linx has become mutch easer to use and run then it was in the old days. its pretty command line free now unless you whant to do some serious stuff suck as tweaking and customising the system to what you whant it to do. but linux is still diffrent in many ways and not everyone likes change. kinda like windows 3.1 came out everyone screamed hell no we ant dumping dos for some hard to use windows program. now look windows is on 98% of all pcs there is. so linux will slowly get accepted just as windows was its just a very slow prosses. as for the guy dissing linux screaming its hard to use and dont understand it. ill say you should relly take some time and sit down and try it and lern a litle abought it. i installed redhat 7.0 compleatly clueless on how to use it but i figured mine as well lern. now i would never get rid of it im running a dual boot of redhat 9.0 and winxp. and dont worry abought messing it up thats the fun of lerning i destoryed my redhat 7.0 install so many times i lost count lol.

True, but thats not what the argument is about. It seems everybody is arguing different points

The original one however, was that Windows is easier than Linux. Which it is. Now they are both capable of the exact same things, but all in all, a PC noobie would be better of on WIndows, if they intended to game etc.

And my XP1900 is gonna have adual boot like yours   I have Windows 2003 on the first HD, with 3 Partitions. On the 3rd partition, is the install files for Mandrake 9.1 THen i got a blank HD for Mandrake to be put on, Well, i am about to format it anyways, it had WIn98 on it. And with my motherboard, i press F8 and choose which HDD to boot of. I am thinking of having a proper dual boot aswell, 2 OS on each HDD, WinXP/Win2003 on first, and Mandrake/98 on second..... but theres no reason for it other than i am bored. Honestly, and one of those 4 is more than enough to do me.... its just my backup PC. I only use it for storing files on LOL...... But when this topic came up, i decided to give Mandrake a go, the only Linux i have used is Gentoox, and let me tell you, that is command line driven.... if you had seen the process to install it, you would know what i mean.

[mxlegend99]

QUOTE (Morglum @ Jun 20 2003, 05:57 AM)

You obviously never seen the new mandrake installer then, thats even nicer than anything ive ever seen in a windows system. And did you miss the part about my computer illiterate fiancee using linux and finding it easy, hell calling her computer illiterate is being kind aswell, shes down right retarded when it comes to computers   And theres nothing to configure with Linux, WTF release you using, Red Hat 2.0 or something? Almost everything is configured right from the install automatically. And like i said earlier, we're talking about XBOX not PC. Heh and if a newbie uses root then they deserve to kill their system. KDE and GNOME both spit up a huge warning screen when you first log in as root saying you can kill your system from using root and they advise you to log in as a standard user.

I had just done with my Mandrake install, and granted it is beautiful. Its not as simple as you put though. I have 2 HDD, first one with 3 partitions. WHile it wasnt difficult, it wasnt as simple as windows, in that i had to direct it to where the folder it was installing from, and then setup partitions for it.
But it was *barely* harder, at worst. It did look nicer though, and it was simple to figure out if you read the screen, and knew where you put the files (i didnt at first, LOL. I couldnt remember which partition, so i restarted in 98, and moved em to E: for a simple install).

Sure, it looks nice, and is a great OS. BUt i still maintain that windows is much easier gaming platform. But being that the PC i put it on, rarely runs a game, its great for it. Its better than WIndows98, in that its on with Windows2003, and Win98 couldnt see Win2003 NTFS drives, but Linux can.

[Morglum]

QUOTE (kollision @ Jun 20 2003, 03:19 PM)

Hey morglum I like your Elder Futhark.  FIRST PERSON I SEE WIT IT!!

Thanks   I was going to use the Futhork, but then i decided to use Futhark as thats where the futhork originated from.

[Morglum]

QUOTE (Dante_Ali @ Jun 21 2003, 02:40 PM)

QUOTE I never saw him knock Linux as an OS. All i say was him saying that *most* people, would prefer Windows. And you know what? I definitely would. WIndows is by far easier, there is nothing to it. YOu insert CD ROm, install yada yada, you got an OS, which is setup for your PC. Now when i last tried Linux on my PC, there was alot more to it than that. Granted, i didnt go for an easy install, i went for gentoox. IT was murder. I had to choose what stage i started at, and if i wanted it to be optimised for my system, that would be stage1. And then in compile times etc. It would take forever. Gentoo is NOT meant to be easy - it's a distribution for power users. I don't see M$ releasing a bare-bones OS that can be as heavily optimized as Gentoo -that's the beauty of it. (then again, who's to say bloatware can be optimized at all?) Therefore, it would be utter stupidity to recommend Gentoo to a noob or someone who can't even handle WinXP let alone Linux. But then again I don't see this as an issue - there are a thousand different Linux distributions to choose from, surely one or two of them (Mandrake and Redhat) are noob friendly enough.

You're wasting your time with this lot, theres like 3 of us who know what linux is about and know what we're talking about. The rest are morons who have read a few articles, download some old release or release thats not for the purpose they want, paid no attention to warnings given by KDE and GNOME about being root, and have then screwed their system up. Just ignore their posts, thats what im doing, theyre trying to fight a battle/war they can never and will never win.

[mxlegend99]

QUOTE (Dante_Ali @ Jun 21 2003, 02:40 PM)

QUOTE I never saw him knock Linux as an OS. All i say was him saying that *most* people, would prefer Windows. And you know what? I definitely would. WIndows is by far easier, there is nothing to it. YOu insert CD ROm, install yada yada, you got an OS, which is setup for your PC. Now when i last tried Linux on my PC, there was alot more to it than that. Granted, i didnt go for an easy install, i went for gentoox. IT was murder. I had to choose what stage i started at, and if i wanted it to be optimised for my system, that would be stage1. And then in compile times etc. It would take forever. Gentoo is NOT meant to be easy - it's a distribution for power users. I don't see M$ releasing a bare-bones OS that can be as heavily optimized as Gentoo -that's the beauty of it. (then again, who's to say bloatware can be optimized at all?) Therefore, it would be utter stupidity to recommend Gentoo to a noob or someone who can't even handle WinXP let alone Linux. But then again I don't see this as an issue - there are a thousand different Linux distributions to choose from, surely one or two of them (Mandrake and Redhat) are noob friendly enough. QUOTE I never saw him knock Linux as an OS. All i say was him saying that *most* people, would prefer Windows. Most of those people have probably never used Linux. They repeat what they've heard from other people ("Linux is hard to use") and use that as an excuse for sticking to WindowsXP.  Anyway, am I the only one thinking the whole Windows OS is going to get a lot more noob unfriendly with DRM and Palladium looming? What if the average Joe wants to download an MP3 from Kazaa, and not only is he not allowed to download it, his PC crashes and comes up with a message saying "Computer out-of-service, contact M$ to get it fixed'?   (bit of an exaggeration, but it gets the point across)

No fucken Kidding. Did i say it wasnt meant to be hard? No i dont think i did. I just stated that its the only version i had treid to date. Now coupled with Mandrake 9.1

See, i stated in my thing you quoted, "I didnt go for an easy install, i went for gentoox". And you are saying i didnt know what i was doing, when i knew it was a harder distribution, but i liked the end results more than any other. I like it more than i did Mandrake 9.1, but thats an opinion.
Mandrake 9.1 fucken froze part the way when installing on my first go, you wouldnt beleive what i had to go through, to refix its partitions while installing. It fucked the drive for use in all OS, because Linux wouldnt continue on it, or reformat, and so i had to get into dos and do all t he dirty work, and then boot into Win2k3 and Format it, without being able to see it, to NTFS. All was ok the second install, but there was no reason for it to have frozen on the first attempt..... It was probably a one in a thousand sorta thing, or maybe its because the system is OC'ed, and Linux isnt as stable when its OC'ed, i dunno.

[mxlegend99]

QUOTE (Morglum @ Jun 21 2003, 02:49 PM)

You're wasting your time with this lot, theres like 3 of us who know what linux is about and know what we're talking about. The rest are morons who have read a few articles, download some old release or release thats not for the purpose they want, paid no attention to warnings given by KDE and GNOME about being root, and have then screwed their system up. Just ignore their posts, thats what im doing, theyre trying to fight a battle/war they can never and will never win.

Your the fucken moron. Call us morons for stating that WIndows is an easier OS. And hten assume we dont know all the facts about Linux. Well your fucken wrong. Even after having used Mandrake 9.1, i still find windows easier.
And im a person who likes the latest drivers, now Windows is always up to date. I got a GF4, so its got Linux drivers there. BUt the odds of screwing somehting up in Linux are alot greater.
How the fuck will we never win this war? Isnt the war that WIndows is an easier OS to use thatn LInux?? Because that has already been won. Its a fucken fact. Every argument you use is just BS. YOu say that its got a wider variety of SOftware, but it hasnt got a hundredth of the games. WHen i say its harder to use a Windows game on Linux, you say its because its Emulation. No fucken shit. THen others say its capable of more because it can emulate windows, well no shit. BUt hten once you start getting into having to do all that, the learning curve becomes much greater than on Linux. I aint saying its by any means hard, Im just saying its Harder.
FFS, since when does saying 1 thing is harder than another, its Hard. It just means its not as easy, not that one HAS to be hard, and the other HAS to be easy.
And the only reason your ignoring posts, is your arguments are without merit. Your a fucken dickhead, who thinks because he finds it easier that everyone must. Well the simple fact is, that WIndows is the reining OS. It is so, because its easy, and has always been easier. People like the fact its so basic, and that if you fuck something up, there are ways to fix it real easily. Now if i wanted to change any major setting for any reason, on Linux, i risk the odds of fucking it up. While its rare that i would, its still not nice knowing that if i do, im screwed. Thats why i always double check what i type.... i have done so before, and mixed two letters up and that results in a big fuck up.
Yes KDE, and WMaker are great. (I havent used Gnome... but its on Madnrake, so oneday i might... i love KDE) BUt still, they dont make life as easy as windows. YOu cant simple click on update drivers, point at a folder, and have it done, restart and Bam, your uptodate. And if something goes wrong, you goto Safe Mode and roll back.
And windows drivers are far more common than Linux. Every manufacture creates there own Windows Drivers, alot dont for Linux, thats not a problem with the OS, but its an advantage towards windows.

NOW TO PUT IT CLEAR FOR YOU, SO YOU STOP MISSING MY POINT. I DONT HATE LINUX, I LIKE IT. I PREFER WINDOWS. WINDOWS IS EASIER, NO TWO WAYS ABOUT IT. THERES LESS TO RISK WHEN YOU WANNA UPDATE DRIVERS, ITS SIMPLER WHEN YOU WANNA INSTALL AND PLAY YOUR FAVORITE GAME.
BUT I STILL LIKE/USE LINUX. ITS NOT HARD, BUT WHEN IT COMES TO DOING SOMETHING FOR OPTIMISING YOUR SYSTEM, YOU STAND THE CHANCE OF FUCKING IT UP. NO KIDDING IT WARNS YOU, BUT WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO LIVE WITH OUT CHANGING IT BECAUSE I *COULD* FUCK IT UP.... THAT MAKES WINDOWS ALOT MORE APPEALING.
AND SOMETIME OVER THE WEEK, I WILL GIVE GNOME A GO.

Now i have used the easy Linux Installs, and the GUI for them, but it still dont change what you will risk doing to the OS, if your a Power user, who likes to always upgrade witch change drivers etc. And thats me, i always upgrade drivers, benchmark my system, and then often roll back because the performance has dropped..... i like to test out ALL drivers, so im sure to have the best. Its nowhere near as simple with Linux.  Maybe in years to come, it will develop all these nifty features, and hopefulyy, the main one i want. A more basic Windows Emulator. One thats integrated into the OS, so you can boot/play like you would in windows. Only then would it be as simple to play games on Linux as it is Windows. ITs probably a very very long shot, but its come a long way so far, so i wont rule it out.

[Morglum]

not to mention a good helping of misinformation  

[mxlegend99]

And thats it for me here, i said everything, and you always dismiss it. Now your saying your ignoring all posts, well thats fine. I know you dont like the fact that its impossible for you to win an arguement, but it is. Esppecially when the argument is over which OS is easier, and when that is an opinion based Argument.
Now you cant just argue against everybody elses opinions, and say there wrong.... We have stated our reasons for why we consider Windows easier, and you dismiss them. WE say because Linux requires an emulator to run the better games, you say thats nothing to do with the OS because its an Emulator. Well that goes to prove our point further more, that if you want to play games, Windows is the way to Go.
That being said, i will no longer post in this topic in arguement, its fucken pointless. YOu seem to think your winning an arguemnt, your not even participating in anymore, and that your opinion is worth more than all ours, and everyone in general.

[mxlegend99]

QUOTE

I can't be arsed to read that whole post,  but there are two things that I'd like to say: 1: There is no 'war'. People who are fed up with MS' OS can migrate to Linux. If they don't, then that's fine as well. Noone in the Linux community is forcing anyone to migrate. The choice's there. 2: You used the wrong distribution for illustrating your point. Let's say that Windows was open-source and there were about a thousand spin-offs. One of them was the Windows equivalent of Gentoo. Now let's consider that Unix was the dominant OS with a market share of 90%, and most people think it is actually easier to use than Windows because of the fact that everyone learned how to use it. Would it be right for me to complain that Windows was not as easy to use and then point to this Windows equivalent of Gentoo as proof of that? Of course not. QUOTE Even after having used Mandrake 9.1, i still find windows easier. I don't think Mandrake makes Linux alot easier. It's more GUI driven but that doesn't mean it makes things easier. It's easier than something like Gentoo, though.

Way they put it, they made it as if it made it easier. THe only easier part than any other Distributions was the installation. BUt i didnt care too much for it, i prefer Gentoox. It may have been the worst as far as installing it went, but it done everything correct. I dont know why, maybe i had a file checked that wasnt there or something, but it froze about 25% or so into it. It said 12mins left, and it didnt drop at all, even after an hour. SO i restarted to find my HDD format had been screwed up, it gave the option to continue, but then said it couldnt. After a reformat however, it ran the installation fine.... Cant be bothered with Gnome though, KDE has it in the bag.

QUOTE

Whatever you say, but i read the first sentance, saw you couldnt spell, saw how much bollox you wrote, and decided not to read anymore. I dare say it was a lovely post of utter drivel though  not to mention a good helping of misinformation

Right... I just went back and checked my first sentence, and it looks fine to me.

QUOTE

Your the fucken moron. Call us morons for stating that WIndows is an easier OS. And hten assume we dont know all the facts about Linux. Well your fucken wrong. Even after having used Mandrake 9.1, i still find windows easier.

Only mistake i can see there, is i muddled the letters up on "then". That dont mean i cant spell, im sure your not so up yourself as to think you have never had any typos?
ANd by the way moron, Sentence, has no "a" in it. couldnt has a ' between the "n" and "t".

BUt im sure someone as brilliant as yourself knows this.
And if you didn't read it, how would you know what it contained? And your one to talk for posting BS. I do recall you saying that Linux has alot more applications, and that its easier to use. And then when it was mentioned it cant run games that we like to play, without the use of Wine, you started saying thats because its emulation.... not through a fault of Linux. Which is wrong, because Linux requires an additional program, to use the Games that people like to play on WIndows. And then that additional program, requires additional work to run them.
ANd well over half the people in the world, play games on their computers. I wouldn't know an exact figure but its probably closer to 75% or 80%. And being that this is an Xbox forum, just about everyone here would use there PCs for games. And while they may deny it, it is easier to play games on a PC with Windows, then it is with Linux.

I dont know you you consider that to be  "utter drivel though  not to mention a good helping of misinformation", when it is all fact. How can anybody find it easier to haev more steps involved in gaming? Other than that, both OS's are very much the same in most areas as you pointed out. Now when you can start posting proper facts, and stop trying to call other people morons, for a difference in opinion, then maybe your insults will do to me. Especially when you insult my spelling, and in the very sentence you do so, you mispell a word. Its common knowledge that PCs are very easy to mistype things on, especially when you are around them for ages, and type without really paying attention to what your doing.

Anyways, thats enough for me, i said that last post though aswell.
Cheers

[feflicker]

[jAckKnife]

QUOTE (mxlegend99 @ Jun 21 2003, 12:18 AM)

one more thing. I wasnt taught on windows. I grew up on DOS. BOth Linux and Windows are much simpler than dos. My first PC didnt even have DOS on it. It was a Tandy PC of somesort. All i can remember is the BIOS i think, had instructions to boot of a floppy, and it had no hard drive. The PC was capable of almost nothing, besides whatever the floppy had.... then our 286 came, and we had 40megs.... goddamn i thought i owned the world

Haha, wow this brings back memories for me.  DOS was what got me into this pc thing, and i would have to say my second setup was rather lame compared to yours!!  I also had a floppy-booter, sweet-ass EGA monitor (haha) , and all i played on it was prince of persia and space quest....but my 286 came, 20 mb hard drive, no 3.5" floppy drive (yeah, the big 5" floppies rocked)....man, i missed those days....hell, i didn't even have a mouse on that thing.....and you people are arguing over simplicity.  bah, the whole fun i find with pc's is fixing anything that could happen, and learning from the experience....and right now linux is better for that....but im not getting in this debate, because it goes nowhere

[mxlegend99]

QUOTE (jAckKnife @ Jun 23 2003, 06:47 AM)

Haha, wow this brings back memories for me.  DOS was what got me into this pc thing, and i would have to say my second setup was rather lame compared to yours!!  I also had a floppy-booter, sweet-ass EGA monitor (haha) , and all i played on it was prince of persia and space quest....but my 286 came, 20 mb hard drive, no 3.5" floppy drive (yeah, the big 5" floppies rocked)....man, i missed those days....hell, i didn't even have a mouse on that thing.....and you people are arguing over simplicity.  bah, the whole fun i find with pc's is fixing anything that could happen, and learning from the experience....and right now linux is better for that....but im not getting in this debate, because it goes nowhere

OMG, prince of persia

I loved that game, i had it running along with a few other classical games. Stunts, Wolf3d(back before Doom LOL), Prince of Persia ofcourse, Maniac Mansion, Duke Nukem 1 and 2, and lots more. I remember i hade a slef made *.bat file, where i run a fiule called games.bat, and it had a list of my games, and corresponding numbers for which i want to load. It took hours to have it setup and working, and i was so proud once i done it. Then along comes windows, and so long to my cool bat file   After lots of editing, i just copied a line form above, and altered it for new games.

Cheers to 286's LOL.

[jAckKnife]

QUOTE (mxlegend99 @ Jun 23 2003, 06:56 AM)

OMG, prince of persia I loved that game, i had it running along with a few other classical games. Stunts, Wolf3d(back before Doom LOL), Prince of Persia ofcourse, Maniac Mansion, Duke Nukem 1 and 2, and lots more. I remember i hade a slef made *.bat file, where i run a fiule called games.bat, and it had a list of my games, and corresponding numbers for which i want to load. It took hours to have it setup and working, and i was so proud once i done it. Then along comes windows, and so long to my cool bat file  After lots of editing, i just copied a line form above, and altered it for new games. Cheers to 286's LOL.

286 kicked ass

Wolf 3d was tight as hell, but my mom never liked the fact of killing dogs, lol.  As soon as i finished that game i was hooked on 1st person, and i started playing other's like Blake Stone and another called catacomb 3d (I think it was called that.... )  But I think i liked the sierra adventure games best....and the text-based adventure games were sweet too.  D.Nukem 1 was awesome, but i could never get the second one to run right....it think it was a bad copy, especially with all crap i did to the computer just to see if it would work

Now it's time for me to salvage at my parents house for this legendary machine....and get that game to run