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[middle73]

RADIO EDIT

[Question_Mark]

Not everyone uses there chipped box for illegal games.

[marksu]

QUOTE (middle73 @ Jun 2 2004, 06:08 PM)

RADIO EDIT

Well that is not what the issue is about.

If you do have pirated games on your xbox it has no negative bearing towards Xbox Community members. That has to to with MS and other outside the xbox modding community.

Smartxx OS is about fucking over a important member in the Xbox Modding Community, incase the GPL accusation is accurate which it seems so fare.
That is a Xbox Community concerning thing.

[[maven]]

QUOTE (oz_paulb @ Jun 2 2004, 04:00 PM)

I'll post more details later tonight.

I'd appreciate if you could do that. From what I've seen so far (not being able to afford an IDA Pro license ) most of it was some fairly basic hardware-initialisation. There are only so many ways in which you can do that (with the hardware still working).
I don't know Cromwell in detail, so it'd be great if you could point out some of the suspected offenses.

BTW: How did you manage to write the decryption code? That looks quite a bit more involved that CSS (which I had trouble understanding in the beginning) ...

[chinmi]

QUOTE (Fish Taco @ Jun 3 2004, 12:34 AM)

I'm making an assumption which may or may not be right, but it seems like Smartxx does the same thing, they modified Cromwell to load Smartxx OS.

you could be right... but it also possible that they use a modified cromwell to load Smartxx OS which actually another modified cromwell

the xenium team probably use a modified cromwell to load Xenium OS which actually not a modified cromwell, and was made from scratch by the xenium team...

if what i'm guessing is right, then the Smartxx OS source-code (which actually another modified cromwell) must be released to the public... because it's considered open source...

[oz_paulb]

QUOTE ([maven)

,Jun 2 2004, 06:36 PM]BTW: How did you manage to write the decryption code? That looks quite a bit more involved that CSS (which I had trouble understanding in the beginning) ...

That's the great thing about open-source, and the fact that SmartXX is making use of open-source code.

RC4/SHA is fairly standard stuff.  It's used extensively in the MS BIOS, and it was probably just 'natural' to make use of it in SmartXX's encryptor/decryptor.

Specifically, here's how I did the decryption (this is going back a bit, so I don't remember 100%):

- I wrote a program on my Xbox that would 'dump' the BIOS area of memory.

- I booted my Xbox using another modchip

- I 'hot-swapped' a SmartXX chip (so their boot code becomes 'visible' in the BIOS Flash space of memory) (I don't know if this hot-swap method was necessary - but I was concerned that their code would boot-up and then 'hide' their own code)

- I then ran my program that would dump the BIOS Flash area to a file on the hard drive

- Once I had their boot-up code, I was able to follow it through to where it deals with 'code update' images (update_XXXX.bin).  I then just took a look at the code, saw it was using RC4/SHA (I've looked at enough disassemblies of these functions to recognize them), and wrote an app that would do the equivalent to a file on the PC



For the decompression, which is also fairly complex, I just grabbed the decompression code that's already in Cromwell.  SmartXX have made a few minor 'tweaks' to the code, but it's practically identical.

NOTE: Since (I believe) Franz wrote the compress/decompress used in Cromwell, he would have every right to re-use it in another product without releasing source.  So, this piece of code isn't proof of GPL violation.

- Paulb

[AlphaWolf]

QUOTE (middle73 @ Jun 2 2004, 11:08 AM)

RADIO EDIT

Had it not been for the GPL, XBMC wouldn't be crap compared to what it is right now. Don't be such a disrespectful little cunt, the authors have rights to their own software.

[bucko]

Does this basicaly mean if Smartxx release their code clones will be made? Is this what happend with Xenium?

[marksu]

Well Xenium have separated the OS to the bios loader (GPL), which they release the source and then the the main OS application is separate(non gpl).  

If SmartXX OS (GPL) source release would result to clones of SmartXX, would not be a good thing. They should have thought of that before they started selling the chip with GPL (if it has?) code.

[stealth]

QUOTE (bucko @ Jun 2 2004, 07:42 PM)

Does this basicaly mean if Smartxx release their code clones will be made? Is this what happend with Xenium?

What this means, is that theoretically if smartxx has integrated GPL code written by others with no permission to use it in a closed manner, they are obligated to release the entire source for all of their public releases, or at least to make it available upon request.

Now, the GPL still has never been tested in court I believe, and I don't know if paulb has any plans of suing smartxx or not if he discovers a violation and they refuse to comply.

If I were to guess, I would say that even given proof of any violations, smartxx will not release their source.  It would be a sad day though if franz and smartxx were to have taken advantage of other people's free work for commercial profit, without asking for permission, and without giving anything back to the community in return.

The whole point of open source is to use it and make it better and give it back for everyone to use.  OzXodus did so when they released their modified cromwell sources, as it contained some bug fixes and useful features like 800x600 focus support.

It is obvious to me after the evox m8 leak, and the possible GPL issues, that franz and smartxx really don't care about anything but lining their pockets, and taking advantage of the free hard work of the scene members.

[faf]

I dont know what this entails but i've learnt not to doubt Paul. Anyone remember his first post on this forum and what happened after?

[MaTiAz]

(sorry, useless post)

[oz_paulb]

QUOTE (stealth @ Jun 2 2004, 07:58 PM)

Now, the GPL still has never been tested in court I believe, and I don't know if paulb has any plans of suing smartxx or not if he discovers a violation and they refuse to comply.

I have NO plans on any legal action.

I would like it if SmartXX would end up releasing their source code as a result of this thread, although I think it's highly unlikely (feel free to surprise me, Franz!)

If nothing else is accomplished, it's at least going to point out another case of SmartXX's shady business practices.  It'll also let other GPL developers know that their code is in there - in case they want to do anything about it.

(I really doubt any GPL developer will take any legal action - just my opinion)

- Paulb

[stealth]

Another area which I would expect might have a violation would be the video initialization.  I have not yet looked for the code in the smartxx os, so this is no accusation, but I know for a fact that many people have had their hands in that.. andy, oliver, david pye for example.  Not only that, but I'm not sure the riva code that some of the video init routines are based on is LGPL or GPL.  If it is not LGPL then that would be a violation as well.

[Rodent]

someone already looked into ozxodus' binarys for such violations?

cu