xboxscene.org forums

Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6] 7 8 9

Author Topic: 2.0 Out Next Week!  (Read 777 times)

greengiant

  • Archived User
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 266
2.0 Out Next Week!
« Reply #75 on: May 23, 2004, 06:01:00 AM »

QUOTE (ncaissie @ May 23 2004, 02:36 PM)
The X3 Bios is only for the X3 chip.

That my friend is NOT 100% of the market.

The point of the post U are quoting is to say, the X3 bios being derived from the MS core, will do EVERYTHING that a normal xbox bios can do.
The XOS will never be able to do that, well never say never, but it would have to include ALL the calls to the video chips, hal, memory, the api calls, pretty much a whole new devkit+bios. It takes MS many months and MANY people to develop the xbox bios, you think a few (1 or 2) guys at Xodus will be able to do the same in a month or two.

Why was X3 bios/mod brounght into this convo anyways.

Have a problem? Wanna chat? Come to IRC and ill chat with ANYONE that wants to debate this.
Logged

chimpanzee

  • Archived User
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 531
2.0 Out Next Week!
« Reply #76 on: May 23, 2004, 06:04:00 AM »

QUOTE (greengiant @ May 23 2004, 02:57 PM)
To the post about XboxMedia Player and such. Making a legal one, HA.
Find me someone thats willing to do that using the XOS as a platform, no one ! They rather do it via cromwell/linux. IF your gonna put that much work into something, might as well make it so everone can use it.

There are already some available under linux, freevo and mythtv are the most comprehensive, a number of others too.
Logged

greengiant

  • Archived User
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 266
2.0 Out Next Week!
« Reply #77 on: May 23, 2004, 06:06:00 AM »

QUOTE (ncaissie @ May 23 2004, 03:00 PM)
I for one am an MS dev, not Linux.

Not because I can't but because I chose to develop for the masses.

I don't want to wait five minutes to boot into Linux to run a few apps.
And until they make a version of Linux that you can read without getting a migraine trying to read it then Linux is not going to work out.

Also after you mess around in the Apps on the XOS you can boot a bios without rebooting the box.

Can you do this in Linux? (Nope)

I installed it on my box and I admit It would have been really cool, But like I said I can’t read it.

I will be removing it until they can fix that issue. (I can't afford an HD TV)



So the XSO boots in less than one minute. Then I can make cool looking apps for the XBox (Defrag and many other apps that people want), and boot them easily.

I can build a media player to my needs (And legal).

I can post it on the Scene without getting banned.

Give it a few months and you will see how limitless this will be.

There are a lot of smart people out there with great Ideas and now they can implement them.

For sure, you must dev for MS if you want to reach the masses. No doupt.

"Give it a few months and you will see how limitless this will be.

There are a lot of smart people out there with great Ideas and now they can implement them."

Linux has been runing on xbox for quite some time now, bootable distro's made just for 1 purpose (may it be flash the tsop (raincoat) or media (linux live)) which boot fast, and donot require much messing with.
Why hasn't the scene done anything with this ?

THe same applies to the XOS.

Also to add,
ncaissie what are you doing wasting cdn gov equipment for your blatant stupidy on this thread. go back to your desk job so I can get my papers back sooner. no wonder it takes 8-infinity weeks to get stuff from the gov.


to chimpanzee:
yeah i have seen some very nice linux based media players, and packaged in a xbox linux easy to use manner. its pretty nice what has been done with it.
When i said the statement, i was refering to someone making a media player exclusive to the XOS2.

Logged

chimpanzee

  • Archived User
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 531
2.0 Out Next Week!
« Reply #78 on: May 23, 2004, 06:19:00 AM »

QUOTE (ncaissie @ May 23 2004, 03:00 PM)
I for one am an MS dev, not Linux.

Not because I can't but because I chose to develop for the masses.

I don't want to wait five minutes to boot into Linux to run a few apps.
And until they make a version of Linux that you can read without getting a migraine trying to read it then Linux is not going to work out.

Also after you mess around in the Apps on the XOS you can boot a bios without rebooting the box.

Can you do this in Linux? (Nope)

I installed it on my box and I admit It would have been really cool, But like I said I can’t read it.

I will be removing it until they can fix that issue. (I can't afford an HD TV)



So the XSO boots in less than one minute. Then I can make cool looking apps for the XBox (Defrag and many other apps that people want), and boot them easily.

I can build a media player to my needs (And legal).

I can post it on the Scene without getting banned.

Give it a few months and you will see how limitless this will be.

There are a lot of smart people out there with great Ideas and now they can implement them.

five minutes to boot to linux ? how about 5 to 10 seconds if configured properly. I have installed a linux running Freevo that can come up in that amount of time. I use it to watch DVD/VCD or ripped DVD on HDD/samba share. Playing MP3 etc. as well. Can browse internet too but admittedly TV is really not for it but not bad for checking email. Or doing TV recording if I don't mind shell out for the device.

Xenium OS is reinventing the wheel and because of its rather small base, it would take people a lot of time to build up the apps arsenal.

As I said in other posts, it is something cool to work on but it really is a high order to achieve what it wants to achieve. I see the Xbox scene divids between the homebrew(huge base, almost every Xbox can run) or linux(for legality).

I am a developer for MS(well not Xbox but those SQL server/.NET stuff) but more and more for linux as it is much more fun to play with.
Logged

alwaysonjohn

  • Archived User
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 193
2.0 Out Next Week!
« Reply #79 on: May 23, 2004, 07:06:00 AM »

love.gif I love my xenium.. *PUN INTENDED*

btw... you guys need to respect greengiant and heinrech...  I am surprised they are still around... you guys are as old as the dust in my first xbox.
Logged

muerte

  • Archived User
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 359
2.0 Out Next Week!
« Reply #80 on: May 23, 2004, 07:52:00 AM »

QUOTE (heinrich @ May 23 2004, 07:49 AM)
What ?  blink.gif
The x3 bios will still run all the same homebrew and retail code that we have been using for years now, the XOS will never achieve that.

heinrich... i don't agree with how you compare the XOS to a bios.  the XOS is legal, the bios is not.  a better comparison would be the XOS vs X3 Config Live!
Logged

heinrich

  • Archived User
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2274
2.0 Out Next Week!
« Reply #81 on: May 23, 2004, 08:39:00 AM »

So what is cromwell if not a bios?  Illegal/legal, who cares.
Logged

muerte

  • Archived User
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 359
2.0 Out Next Week!
« Reply #82 on: May 23, 2004, 09:16:00 AM »

QUOTE (heinrich @ May 23 2004, 11:39 AM)
So what is cromwell if not a bios?  Illegal/legal, who cares.

It matters, because X3 Config Live! will never be able to run homebrew software.  there's a big difference.
Logged

heinrich

  • Archived User
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2274
2.0 Out Next Week!
« Reply #83 on: May 23, 2004, 09:49:00 AM »

smile.gif
Logged

bucko

  • Recovered User
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4255
2.0 Out Next Week!
« Reply #84 on: May 23, 2004, 09:51:00 AM »

Seems pretty cool. Can't wait to see the applications start pouring out. Maybe they would be able to develop there mini os to use the SPI port for ram or somthing for the emulater. I don't know just an idea.
Logged

muerte

  • Archived User
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 359
2.0 Out Next Week!
« Reply #85 on: May 23, 2004, 10:09:00 AM »

QUOTE (heinrich @ May 23 2004, 12:49 PM)
XOS -> x2 bios -> evox
x3 bios -> (x3 config live) -> evox

"x3 config live" is an .xbe in their bios.  The x3 bios PLUS "x3 config live" will be seen as the 'OS' for the x3 just as xeniumOS is the OS for the xenium (btw, whatever happened to "Xenium UI" ?).  We can go back and forth for a week comparing one thing to another, so lets just leave it at we dont agree smile.gif

not arguing... but just wondering.  will the x3 have the x3 config live right on the modchip?  or will you have to download the bios with the .xbe right in it?  if you're right, that means that xecuter will be shipping out their chips from the factory w/o any sort of interface on the chip (which is, imo, kinda dumb)
Logged

heinrich

  • Archived User
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2274
2.0 Out Next Week!
« Reply #86 on: May 23, 2004, 10:11:00 AM »

QUOTE
X3 Config LIVE!
All X3 Config Live! features are displayed on screen

* All works direct from new X3 on any new install.
Logged

athirne

  • Archived User
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 14
2.0 Out Next Week!
« Reply #87 on: May 23, 2004, 04:45:00 PM »

*laughs*

This is funny.

XOS 2.0 is about what is coming, not what it is. Any initial platform is not going to be vary feature rich. It takes a long time to write one of these programs from scratch. The only thing I can fault team OzXodus with is that it took them a damn long time to just tell people that they were having problems because they needed to compleatly re-do the XOS from scratch without any Linux component.

Multi-threading -
I belive that they are not talking about playing games and doing other things at the same time. multithreading is prevented in the xbox in software.
Lets say you are transfering files back and forth using FTP. at the same time you could be listening to a MP3 or be playing an emulator.

XOS is not a BIOS and XOS as a dashboard-

This is 100% correct but you are not thinking technecly. The dashboard is simply used to load a game or control functions. One does not need to call up the dashboard exactly to launch a game. When you insert the a game into a normal xbox please note that by default it is set up to boot the BIOS and THEN the DVD, the dashboard only gets called up if there is no default.xbe avalible on the D partition. The game then calls up files from the hard drive that realate to Active X and other components, but NOT the dashboard itself.

Now lets just say that the XOS becomes a dashboard. The XOS acts as its own BIOS as sorts, kinda like a pre BIOS (works between the power on and BIOS start). This then allows you to do anything you could in, say Avalaunch. So now you have a launcher that works outside of the confines of the xbox BIOS enviornment.
Yes this new enviornment does not work with XDK compiled software but I am getting to that.
Anyways now you can do things like FTP, play MP3s, and run any moduals or programs writen for this enviornment without the confines of a MS baded BIOS.
Lets say you want to start XBMC or a game.
Just like in any dashboard you can go in a menue to select a game or applications and start executing it.
Now this is where things get different. As an example I am going to use X2 4981 as an example.
If you want to launch an application that the path is already dictated as the first boot option (such as DVD or without a DVD in as the first HD boot option) it will now halt tasks, clear itself out of memory, and hand control over to the xbox BIOS.
However lets say you launch a xbox game you backed up onto your hard drive so you dont have to drag disks around to LAN parties. BIOS cooking allows the XOS to make a temporary copy of the BIOS and alter it to point to the proper .XBE and then all of the unloading and other such stuff is done as in the last paragraph.

They dont need to make their own BIOS to run or execute programs. THey dont even NEED others to recompile their programs or games for XOS. If they do though then they gain more flexebility and functionality, but it is not needed at all.

BIOS cooking takes a seccond or two and since the XOS will be able to boot a BIOS from the hard drive it will not have to be flashed to the chip.

LCD -
Well vary few people will actualy use this feature so I assume that they are more concerned about the framework of their new system then LCD support. Then again since the LCD support was implemented and shown off so long ago they may not feel the need to list it as a feature. It is already assumed in and they are focusing more on the new features they havent talked about.
Then again it could just be that they implemented it under the 1.x system, figured out they were reaching the limit to the old system and decided to make a new one, leaving this not commonly used feature until latter.

Propaganda -

Lets face this every team is neck deep in this. the X3 is still vapoware to most of the community, SmartXX has released quite a few releases that kill EEPROMs and for the longest time their chip and OS was vapoware, and OzXodus is just trying to keep people interested while they try to pull a entirely new OS out of their hats with every one of thier compeditors trying to capitalize on the dificulty and time it takes to do it.

The modchip scenes are no longer what they were like during the early PS2 and PSx days. It is now a buisness. Marketing, slam tactics, ect are now common place. And because this is a gray area market (the product is not exactly illigal) there are no fair competition rules.
If someone wants to take a feature from someone else they can do it without any fear of legal reprisals. You cant copyright or enforce the originality of your code without risking some conecequences.

The customer may be in the dark, but so is the competition. The only way to beat someone is to be there first or to implement something better.
Logged

HoRnEyDvL

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 462
2.0 Out Next Week!
« Reply #88 on: May 23, 2004, 05:21:00 PM »

tongue.gif pity u need 2 be right next 2 ur Xbox 2 read it. As for the person that was saying when u listen 2 winamp don’t u turn off ur monitor  well yes you do but ur monitor was on ,in the first place so u can load winamp, So im sure that turning on ur TV 2 select media player then  turning off the TV  will be the same thing.

Now before u all start going off about the typos ECT I got 2 tell you something this is my opinion & how I feel.

Never the less Ozxodus , xecuter, smartxx All have done a good job in the scene along with other chip makers but now its time 2 see which company will shoot off to a lead.

Before I let you guys go take this into consideration.

What would u buy a car that basically can do everything it could with afew mods added?
Or a car with a new design that was completely different & new to what is released 2 day with the freedom 2 do what ever u want e.g. want 2 build your own turbo then u build it. Want it 2 fly then program it 2 fly make it blow up then go ahead.
Logged

swolsten

  • Archived User
  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 71
2.0 Out Next Week!
« Reply #89 on: May 23, 2004, 05:39:00 PM »

Having read the OzXodus XOS2 news and most of the posts in this thread I am amazed that there are a lot of people talking about how this compares to X3. From my understanding this XOS2 is not able to be compared with anything we have seen yet or will even see from Xecuter when the much-hyped and even more delayed X3 is finally released.

Other than the same feature list that has been regurgitated by Xecuter for the same 6 months the X3 has very little to offer, I think that if you look at the real content of the X3 list you will only find a few simple little bios hacks that can be done without using XBTool unlike  what appears to be a revolutionary upgrade like XOS2.

I'll let the facts speak for themselves, Samba support is great as it means you can transfer files to and from your PC using like any shared network resource. This is particularly useful for flashing a bios onto your Xenium as you will not need to use CDs or webbrowsers any longer, you could either pull the file from the network drive or copy it onto your XBox first.

Pendrive support also opens up a few more possibilities for bios flashing, installers can just plug in a USB Memory Stick to load the bios, again no need for CD buring.

FTP built into the O/S is awesome, I know that SmartXX have a similar feature in ED @ Chip but its crap.

Yet again I get the feeling that everytime OzXodus do anything special, the blind xecuter supporters come rushing in. A complete rewrite of the O/S is a mammoth task and I'm sure that OzXodus would not have undertaken a job like that unless they could see the long term benefits, I haven't seen this magical X3 Config Live that has supposedly been in development for 12 months but I can now appreciate where the true talent in the scene lies, the Xbox-linux guys did a superb job with the Cromwell development and this has been highly acclaimed by all in the scene. The RTOS implementation in XOS2 is a similar project done in record time in my opinion and all the fans of Xecuter and SmartXX should just accept that they have just had another innovation done by the team who they don't follow.

The other major thing that a lot of you guys are missing is that there is no longer a need for XDK for those people wishing to develop applications for the Xbox in a legal way, in a commercial sense too this is as huge as all the hype OzXodus has been generating.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6] 7 8 9