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[marksu]

QUOTE

If the ACT code is on the clone modchip's flash chip (as part of a version of Xenium's OS), then the cloner can extract the code and reverse-engineer it. Once reverse-engineered, they can replace it with new code that has ACT disabled.

Your point of view is directed to new version clones.
I agree with you.

I would be happy to disable all current clones sold allready though.

QUOTE

As someone pointed out, this can be time-consuming for the cloner (to constantly chase new OS revs made by Xenium/remove the ACT stuff), but they're in it for the money, so probably wouldn't mind the extra effort.

True
clone users would still allways have to be afraid if there is something cloners crack missed. One day cloners make a mistake, clones says BOOOOM. After mod is without main OS and restore OS it cant be restored, cause it cant run unsigned code.

Think about avery time Ozxodus is saying soon they release new OS. Ppl are waiting avery hour, days to get it (and longer). Clone user would need to wait the OS to be release and after that they want cloner developer to crack it (if even every update version is cracked).

So they would rather buy a real one.

[cap269]

QUOTE (sha @ Apr 21 2004, 01:55 PM)

Nothing is 100 percent effective so I hope they QA this with at least 1000 chips before they plan the rollout.

This could explain the delay in the release .....


How many clones are out there? Potentially thousands. It costs about the same to make one as it does to make many.

[mike96sc2]

I'm going to go with it being real, it makes sense anyways that it would be.

Why not work with the cloners, it's all "ooh the cloners are so bad" and I agree stealing other people's work for profit is very wrong, but it's also a valid part of business in from an economic standpoint.

I saw Xenium Clones going for like $35, Xeniums are what? like $60? so for 1/2 the price they're making the same product basically as in they both serve the same purpose. Now is OzX making $25+ on each Xenium then? I mean if they are being sold for $25 more than a clone (and the cloner has to be making some money or else they wouldn't be selling their product) then logic says the costs of a Xenium chip's manufacture and clone's manufacture would be comparble. If this is the case then easy fix = $40 Xeniums, most people who are buying clones (and know they are) are doing it for the savings, but for $5 more you've got support and OS updates and everything else.

Better yet OzX could just license the technology to the cloners to use at like say $10 per chip. OzX makes more money for less work and all they need to do is cash the checks from the clone makers who would now be "licensed manufacturers and distributors"

Just my 2 cents, you're not going to stop the bootleggers and even if you did, from an Economic standpoint it's not a positive thing if you did.

[cap269]

QUOTE (mike96sc2 @ Apr 21 2004, 05:51 PM)

1)  Why not work with the cloners ... Better yet OzX could just license the technology to the cloners to use at like say $10 per chip. OzX makes more money for less work and all they need to do is cash the checks from the clone makers who would now be "licensed manufacturers and distributors" 2)  I saw Xenium Clones going for like $35, Xeniums are what? like $60? so for 1/2 the price they're making the same product basically as in they both serve the same purpose. Now is OzX making $25+ on each Xenium then?

I divided the quote of your post into two parts.

Part 1: That might be okay if the cloners could guarantee quality control for the product they make. However, it has been widely recognized and accepted that the manufacture of the clones is less than par with the genuine. This could be a big problem. Let's say there are two factories. OzX uses "factory A" and a cloner uses "factory B" -- The chips from "factory B" are deplorable due to shoddy manufacturing (costs less), whereas the chips from "factory A" are top grade. Ultimately it is the consumer that is the judge.  Customers don't know (and don't even care) what factory their chip was made it. All they know is that it says "Xenium" on it. All the customers that get shoddy chips made in "factory B" are going to blame OzX when their chip goes bad, when it wasn't made in OzX's factory. This is going to do damage to OzX, because these "factory B" would seemingly carry OzX's endorsement. OzX is right to keep close watch on who makes their chips and how well they're made.

Part 2: The cloners don't have to recoup research and development costs. There are many design-to-market costs that have gone into the Xenium. OzX deserves every penny they ask for in selling the chips. This money will only go to serve the scene in the future with more development and better toys for you and me.  The cloners are essentially robbing OzX of the recovery of the money they have ALREADY SPENT getting the Xenium to market, not to mention the ongoing costs of supporting customers who unknowingly bought the clones and are now requesting technical support and remedies.

[EmperorPsiblade]

and you are paying for the future development of the XOs also...

[dethbunny]

I'm still mystified as to how the ACT can identify a clone versus a real Xenium.  If they all use the same components, connected in electrically equivalent fashion, then they can't very well detect the difference.  There's been commentary on the different flash ROMs used, but it's also been determined that the genuine Xeniums don't all use the same chip, and recent clones have used the identical flash to recently-manufactured Xeniums.  The one thing that could be different (and detectable) is the microprocessor, but isn't it the same on all Xeniums seen so far, both real and clone?

That, or perhaps slightly different trace lengths allow a sort of electrical timing check to see if the PCB is the original design or the clone design.

[HSDEMONZ]

 magic  

[Artifex]

QUOTE (HSDEMONZ @ Apr 22 2004, 03:07 AM)

magic

Yes... see.... we're actually a team of voodoo witch doctors...

That's the REAL reason behind the kittens.



--Arti

[marksu]

[EmperorPsiblade]

QUOTE (dethbunny @ Apr 21 2004, 06:38 PM)

I'm still mystified as to how the ACT can identify a clone versus a real Xenium.  If they all use the same components, connected in electrically equivalent fashion, then they can't very well detect the difference.  There's been commentary on the different flash ROMs used, but it's also been determined that the genuine Xeniums don't all use the same chip, and recent clones have used the identical flash to recently-manufactured Xeniums.  The one thing that could be different (and detectable) is the microprocessor, but isn't it the same on all Xeniums seen so far, both real and clone? That, or perhaps slightly different trace lengths allow a sort of electrical timing check to see if the PCB is the original design or the clone design.

obviously they must be confident in their method.....

I like magic... but all magic is faked so then is ACT just a cheap trick?  

[marksu]

QUOTE (EmperorPsiblade @ Apr 22 2004, 10:23 AM)

obviously they must be confident in their method..... I like magic... but all magic is faked so then is ACT just a cheap trick?

Some magic tricks are far from cheap though!  

[Lex Luthor]

A.C.T = Are Crapping Themselves

Filling your heads with BS, personally we dont sell many but of the thousands i know have gone out there has been NO problem with the clones.  Do you want me to prove this & finally end this discussion?  Cloning may not be right, but then again nor is copyright infringement & theft from Ms etc. it is a fact of life.  Ozxodus try to play the big fish but they have a handful of members on their site & no commercial ability.  All they can do is try to demean the clone with lies & propoganda.  Sure, if you want to be safe buy the original, if you want to save money then get a clone.  IT IS THE SAME THING.

[marksu]

QUOTE (Lex Luthor @ Apr 22 2004, 11:18 AM)

A.C.T = Are Crapping Themselves Filling your heads with BS, personally we dont sell many but of the thousands i know have gone out there has been NO problem with the clones.  Do you want me to prove this & finally end this discussion?  Cloning may not be right, but then again nor is copyright infringement & theft from Ms etc. it is a fact of life.  Ozxodus try to play the big fish but they have a handful of members on their site & no commercial ability.  All they can do is try to demean the clone with lies & propoganda.  Sure, if you want to be safe buy the original, if you want to save money then get a clone.  IT IS THE SAME THING.

ye, what ever Lex Luthor.

No clone crap here!

Only ACT discussion.

[xpro]

Lex Luthor

LOL

WHO ARE YOU KIDDING..... I had 5 of those crappy clones and GUESS WHAT...........  YA thats right  NONE of them WORK!!!! EXPLAIN THAT
They work for a day or two and then bam no more life left in them.


Whether its ACT that is killing those chips or just very bad reproduction of them .. well I cant answer that . All I can say is that my ORIGINAL chips I have installed for friends work 100%

[HSDEMONZ]

Don't feed the trolls guys.

2/3rds of the clones I had when we exposed the clones failed.  I'm not some ignorant noob installer who has touched only one xbox.  I've used just about every modchip we list in our gen 1-4th gen listings.. tsop.. and exploits.  Bad clones are bad clones period. Ignore the polictics by Ozx.. that's okay.. just look at the clone product. High Falure rate.. software now designed to "fuck" them up, most over-prices and mis-represented, furthermore.. visual inspection of the clones show shoddy workmanship.

Regardless.. this isn't a pro clone forum.. nor a pro-clone thread.  Keep that bs off the forum or leave.

Stay on TOPIC.. ACT.

Mods will start suspending accounts for abuse.. and for pro-clone proganda.  Sell your shit elsewhere.