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Author Topic: Xenium Vs X3  (Read 651 times)

SniperKilla

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Xenium Vs X3
« Reply #45 on: January 09, 2004, 01:14:00 AM »

QUOTE (tiger @ Jan 9 2004, 08:40 AM)
SniperKilla u said  "just another example of why i stay away from xodus/evox developments"

y do u spend time in this forum then????

go to the forum that represents u, and leave the rest of us alone!!!!!!!

mad.gif

i was linked here from people laughing at the chip in #xboxhacker.. thank you very much, now you go away.

and to you animex2.. lets not forget xodus posted a comparison chart of their own long ago.. matrix vs xecuter 2.. that claimed the matrix was better because it had 53 components and the xecuter had 8... HAHA.. very funny joke.

xecuter has done nothing on the offensive in this "war" all they did was put up a chart in defense of the first OzXodus attacks.. then they go and attack them again after that... LAME SHIT..

QUOTE
X3 can have Bios that can have the Colors changed and the Xenium Cannot


id rather have that over a stupid "os" that loads on every boot

LAME LAME LAME LAME LAME
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swolsten

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Xenium Vs X3
« Reply #46 on: January 09, 2004, 01:24:00 AM »

QUOTE (SniperKilla @ Jan 9 2004, 10:14 AM)
QUOTE (tiger @ Jan 9 2004, 08:40 AM)
SniperKilla u said  "just another example of why i stay away from xodus/evox developments"

y do u spend time in this forum then????

go to the forum that represents u, and leave the rest of us alone!!!!!!!

mad.gif

i was linked here from people laughing at the chip in #xboxhacker.. thank you very much, now you go away.

and to you animex2.. lets not forget xodus posted a comparison chart of their own long ago.. matrix vs xecuter 2.. that claimed the matrix was better because it had 53 components and the xecuter had 8... HAHA.. very funny joke.

xecuter has done nothing on the offensive in this "war" all they did was put up a chart in defense of the first OzXodus attacks.. then they go and attack them again after that... LAME SHIT..

QUOTE
X3 can have Bios that can have the Colors changed and the Xenium Cannot


id rather have that over a stupid "os" that loads on every boot

LAME LAME LAME LAME LAME

You mean to tell me you would sacrifice all the functionality that xenium-os is going to offer over a colormod bios that can be done in XBTool anyway.  And the "os" wont load on every boot, it only adds 3-4 second delay on power-on and not on a reboot.

Has anyone ever thought to try something before the slag it off? No wonder this was all kept quite until just before release date.
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SniperKilla

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Xenium Vs X3
« Reply #47 on: January 09, 2004, 01:39:00 AM »

QUOTE (swolsten @ Jan 9 2004, 10:24 AM)
QUOTE (SniperKilla @ Jan 9 2004, 10:14 AM)
QUOTE (tiger @ Jan 9 2004, 08:40 AM)
SniperKilla u said  "just another example of why i stay away from xodus/evox developments"

y do u spend time in this forum then????

go to the forum that represents u, and leave the rest of us alone!!!!!!!

mad.gif

i was linked here from people laughing at the chip in #xboxhacker.. thank you very much, now you go away.

and to you animex2.. lets not forget xodus posted a comparison chart of their own long ago.. matrix vs xecuter 2.. that claimed the matrix was better because it had 53 components and the xecuter had 8... HAHA.. very funny joke.

xecuter has done nothing on the offensive in this "war" all they did was put up a chart in defense of the first OzXodus attacks.. then they go and attack them again after that... LAME SHIT..

QUOTE
X3 can have Bios that can have the Colors changed and the Xenium Cannot


id rather have that over a stupid "os" that loads on every boot

LAME LAME LAME LAME LAME

You mean to tell me you would sacrifice all the functionality that xenium-os is going to offer over a colormod bios that can be done in XBTool anyway.  And the "os" wont load on every boot, it only adds 3-4 second delay on power-on and not on a reboot.

Has anyone ever thought to try something before the slag it off? No wonder this was all kept quite until just before release date.

wasent it already said it was going to load on every boot? i believe it was.. and 3-4 seconds? and you cant disable it? blah! i chopped off the intro video to save time, lets just go add 4 seconds to boot time for no reason...

anything their little os can do can be controlled by hardware switches, so why extend my boot time when i can have switches that do the same things, and no one changes bios enough to actually need that shit to load every boot

From the xbox-scene sample review thing..
QUOTE
The modchip will always boot to XeniumOS first. There you can reboot your xbox with the bios bank you select or boot with the onboard bios (modchip disabled).


ohh.. ohhh.. whats that i read?
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SniperKilla

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Xenium Vs X3
« Reply #48 on: January 09, 2004, 02:01:00 AM »

QUOTE (Kazaki @ Jan 9 2004, 10:51 AM)
QUOTE (SniperKilla @ Jan 9 2004, 09:19 AM)
possibly lamest thing i have heard, who wants to see your advertisment/OS every boot? who needs to change bios's every boot?

just another example of why i stay away from xodus/evox developments lol

Ahem.

"WELCOME TO MS WINDOWS XP PRO/HOME! We greatly welcome you for pressing your power button, and incase you forgot who oWnZ your computer, it's US! Now wait for the lil green/blue bar to stop moving....

WELCOME TO THE MS WINDOWS XP LOGIN PAGE! Here, you will be featured to MORE proof that we're Windows!"

lol, eh, that wasn't all too great of a counter(on my part), but at least we all know we're already go through it. tongue.gif  I think the XeniumOS thing will take a sort of... POST thing.  Press button to get to settings, nothing in one second and it loads the default BIOs you set.

Ah, which reminds me.  Hello Xecuter fans! *waves hello* Intresting to see them fighting over the consumer, logical but... a bit too soon I'd say.

hehe yea, but we can change the way windows boots smile.gif
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theplowking

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Xenium Vs X3
« Reply #49 on: January 09, 2004, 05:34:00 AM »

QUOTE (animex2 @ Jan 9 2004, 11:04 AM)
Wow... I just looked at the Xecuter3 vs Xenium chart and i thought it was really stupid, how Team Xecuter said their X3 can have Bios that can have the Colors changed and the Xenium Cannot... I think that it is complete crap on the entire software table.... Both chips can have pretty much all the same features.... AND WHY WOULD YOU WANT A 4/8 MB ATTACHMENT FOR YOUR BIOS? x.x

Comon xecuter people, what happened to fair compitition?

look closer everyone, xecuter is saying the X3 can change all of those *bios related things* on the fly

thats what the comparison is talking about


oh yea, and xeniumOS and X3Live sound like the same thing to me

QUOTE
Being able to not only control the mod (which the xenium is limited to) but also to take complete control of every bios setting on the fly - we call this X3 Config Live.


we will see how this plays out
-plowking
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Xeero

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Xenium Vs X3
« Reply #50 on: January 09, 2004, 08:16:00 AM »

I think I had moved this thread from the Xecuter forum when it was just a few OzXodus fanboys saying "The Xenium kicks the X3's ass! The table is a joke!  Blah!!"  There was no Xecuter fanboy representation, so it looked like an attack.  I moved it here, and it appears it got merged with another thread and is also now linked to in another thread.

In any case, what a shitfest this thread has turned into...
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jive

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Xenium Vs X3
« Reply #51 on: January 09, 2004, 01:18:00 PM »

biggrin.gif
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geeky2003

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Xenium Vs X3
« Reply #52 on: January 09, 2004, 02:04:00 PM »

I think everyone is being way to hard on Team Xecuter. We should take in consideration all the time and effort they put into to writeing thier bios which is so widely used. They certinally didn't profit for that. And as for the comparision table...they have a right to be proud of thier product and of course they are going to be bias. Who isn't when it comes to marketing thier own product? I am sure both chips are(or will be) great and it is really a matter of personal preference. I myself will probably wait and go for the X3. That doesn't mean the ozxodus is bad or makes a lesser chip.... I think it's very important to have a company that offers such great competition that motivates the other companies to make thier chips better and better.

-=-=geeky
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phigmeta

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Xenium Vs X3
« Reply #53 on: January 09, 2004, 02:08:00 PM »

Hello all ... since the x3/xenium thread  has turned into a flame fest of children throwing crayons at each other and whining about  who is better I though I might come in here and give you a brief and understandable analysis of the modchips features and what they actually mean to the scene ... minus all the bullshit.


I would first start by saying.... I HATE the executer team.... but I have no particular fondness of the other manufactures. In my humble opinion ALL of the Modchip folks are childish and have no business being in the business world.  With that said.... I present you with :

Technical Dissertation and explanation of each chips features and what they mean.


We will begin with the hardware features of each and explain in a technical manner what this actually means …. And how it can benefit you.

Flash Memory

Well the flash memory in both is reported at 2 meg. It has been reported however that the Xen (Xenium) chip will use a portion of this for its xOS … the X3 however has a separate bank for emergency access in the event that you fry your toy.  This is basicly just 2 very different approaches to the same problem ….

Winner: X3 - Josh I really don’t care that much either way … functionally speaking they both will do the job … ALTHOUGH I would kinda like to see the ability to have a full configurable bios like a PC that can POST …. Well either way I am not sure who’s I will like better.

D0 Control

Once again this is a very similar system on both … as a matter of fact it’s the same Molex connector that they use… as for physical control … well team Exucuter and the old exodus teams have always had a very different method of doing D0 Control …. As of recently the X2 team has found it hard to perfect their methods whereas the Exodus team did not have as many problems with the whole voltage issue. This is primarily due to the basic overall design of the X2 …. I would not call it flawed …. Just a bit overcomplicated.

Winner: Xen …. With software method and the ability to disable the chip without hardware switch.

CPLD controller

I was very sad to see this brought up by the executer team. Basically this is a bad, bad joke …. The truth be told you will always be running at the same clock no matter how fast your CPLD is. (33mhz) this is proof of the executers arrogance thinking you would not know the difference. SHAME ON YOU. We back to the point … the usefulness of either is highly in question … I mean it’s a CPLD …. Its as exciting at the Dallas Semiconductor RTC (Real Time Clock… ya know the thing that keeps real time on your PC even though your FSB is overclocked) on your motherboard … it is what it is …

Winner: Well …. Honestly everyone’s a winner here. But I am giving the Xen folks the prize for this one if for no other reason than they are not trying to be misleading.

Flash Upgrade

Hmm well …. This is a VERY interesting addition to the X3 …. Very interesting indeed. I like this addon … but once again I think it has been executed in both chips … just in a different manner. … please to let me explain.

The method that they did the flash upgrade is a tad bit overcomplicated … this I say is due to the fact that they use a separate bus to accomplish this (yes they could have used the i2c bus) of course this is not a point against them … unless you are counting form as a point maker.

As for the Xen … well this can EASIL be accomplished by the SPI port … SPI is VERY fast and you could in theory put an unlimited amount of flash on it …. Well there is a limited amount of space actually and even thought SPI runs at 1.5 the LPC is much slower

Winner: Xen … with the elegant solution and less costly design ….. this makes for less possibility of failure and fewer possible manufacture flaws.


External Mod Control

Well this is one place that X3 will certainly win out every time. BUT they are not using the i2c bus to do this … that’s too bad … once again I am displeased by their inelegant design. But he bottom line is that they win on this one…. Simple as that.

Winner: X3 …. It should be noted that the SPI port could accomplish this and a lot more … but due to the fact that as of yet there has been no announcement of an external mod … sadly I must give this up to X3

Status Lights

Well this is one of those things that Executer team just flatly lied about on the comparison chart.

Both modchips can display the HDD activity and the LAN Activity.  The key difference is that the XEN chip can be programmed to other functions.

Winner: Xen … I want to be able to program what my led does.


I2C Bus /SPI bus
well this is going to the most contested part of the Modchip scene in the coming months.

First I will inundate you guys with a bunch of info on the I2c/SPI Differences and similarities.

(continued)
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havocaose

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Xenium Vs X3
« Reply #54 on: January 09, 2004, 02:20:00 PM »

QUOTE (Psilocybe @ Jan 9 2004, 08:16 AM)
i'm pretty sure he meant the Z3, not x3 so this is out the door, thanks for trying to be funny though

no dude.. bmw made the x5 around 2000, and they just released the new bmw suv (sAv uhh.gif ) x3.. i thought it was pretty funny when he said it.. reminds me of my moms x5 totalled in the junkyard... oops.. turn OFF tcs next time
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phigmeta

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Xenium Vs X3
« Reply #55 on: January 09, 2004, 02:39:00 PM »

Interfacing techniques and questions on them
Can I Connect a Serial A/D to My Computer's Serial Port?
The answer to this question is yes, but there are simpler ways to interface to a computer. To begin with, the computer's RS-232 port uses higher voltage levels that are incompatible with most ADC's TTL/CMOS logic. Another problem is that the computer's RS-232 serial port is asynchronous, which places a few more requirements on the communication, including some additional handshaking control lines. Also, with the RS-232 serial port, you must set both ends of the link to the same baud rate. The A/D converter's serial port is synchronous; thus, its handshaking requirements are minimal and it only requires one wire for clock and one or two wires for data.
If you are truly determined, you can bit-bang using the RS-232 port's handshake lines.
What Is Bit-Banging?
Bit-banging is a method of using general-purpose I/O lines to emulate a serial port. Microcontrollers that include serial-port modules like SPI[tm] and I2C[tm] manage all synchronization and timing signals, and this activity is transparent to the user. With bit-banging, however, each write to the port causes a single transition at the port pin. And it's up to the user, first, to provide the correct number of transitions to obtain the desired waveform and, second, to ensure that the timing requirements (particularly setup and hold times for reading and writing data) are met. Due to the overhead associated with the number of writes to the port, though the actual port speed might be quite high the actual bit-bang throughput rate is usually very slow. This technique is very inefficient from a software perspective, but it may be acceptable in some applications where the communication overhead is acceptable (for example for doing occasional controlling communication).
Microwire and SPI versus I2C
SPI is a close cousin of the older Microwire. Both interfaces are very simple and basically consist only of an 8-bit serial shift register and (for master devices) a programmable shift clock. There is no means of addressing devices. Typical applications consist of one master device (usually a microcontroller) and one or multiple slave devices (usually peripheral functions, like A/D, EEPROM, display drivers, etc.).
I2C is quite a bit more complex than SPI and Microwire, which results in a larger silicon area and therefore slightly more expensive devices. In addition Philips is collecting licensing fees for I2C implementations from competitors, adding to the cost of I2C devices.
Connecting External Peripherals
There is a minimum of 3 connections for SPI and Microwire: serial clock, serial data out and serial data in. Therefore you'll see those interfaces sometimes referred to as 3-wire interfaces. The interconnected devices need to also share the same Vcc and GND of course and in the case of multiple connected devices you need one chip select for each connected slave device (for just one slave, the slave's chip select can be enabled all the time – not recommended, but possible).
If you want to connect N devices to your microcontroller with Microwire or SPI you need to sacrifice 3+N pins to do the job. This is an area where I2C has an advantage. I2C features a 7-bit address as part of the protocol. As such I2C can address up to 128 devices on the bus without the need for dedicated chip select signals.
The Need For Speed
Microwire and SPI shine when it comes to speed. I2C was initially specified at a maximum speed of 100kbits/sec. This was later increased to 400kbits/sec and lately some devices started to show up that boast 1Mbits/sec. This still pales in comparison to Microwire and SPI speeds. SPI has the edge over Microwire, due to the availability of higher speed peripheral devices. Today's serial EEPROM for example support up to 3MBits/s for Microwire and up to 10Mbits/sec for SPI. But even the slowest Microwire and SPI peripherals still beat the typical 100 or 400kbit/s I2C speeds.

Increasing the speed gap is the fact that SPI and Microwire have full–duplex capability (can receive and send data at the same time), while I2C, due to its two-wire nature (one clock, one data) can only communicate half-duplex.

Why can speed be important? Current consumption for one - many microcontroller applications spend most of their time in power save modes and only short periods of time in "normal" operating mode. The faster a read or write operation to a peripheral can be completed, the shorter the time the controller needs to be active. This is especially true for access to large external EEPROM memories.
Multi-Master Systems
I2C offers better support for multi-master systems. The interface has built in arbitration to detect multiple devices sending on the bus at the same time and to give priority to the one that first sends a "0". Microwire would require some software implemented handshaking via a standard I/O pin to allow for multiple master devices on the bus. SPI has a crude way to support multi-master systems via its built in "fault logic". It can detect requests of devices to become the master via the dedicated SS (slave select) pin.
Noise Immunity
One possible disadvantage of I2C should not go unmentioned: Higher noise sensitivity and along with it lower data integrity. I2C uses a read/write bit which follows the initial 7 address bits to tell a peripheral whether data should be read or written. In addition I2C is level sensitive - in contrast to Microwire and SPI, which are edge sensitive. This means that I2C samples data during the high or low phase of a bit and you can easily envision that noise could flip the read/write bit. So if you wanted to read data from your external EEPROM, but noise turned your read bit into a write bit, your memory might get corrupted. Microwire and SPI peripherals on the other hand implement read and write operations via explicit commands send over the bus, making selecting the "wrong" operation less likely.
So which synchronous interface should you give the preference?
If you have many devices to connect and in addition have multiple microcontrollers in your system that can act as masters, then I2C is the interface of choice. The same holds true if you need to keep the number of interconnects, board routing and pins required for the interface to an absolute minimum. The I2C interface is very popular in video and audio applications, due to Philips' (microcontroller & application specific peripheral) dominance in those applications. If you develop such applications you might not find your desired peripheral function with any other interface.

If your main concerns are low cost, high speed or noise immunity, either Microwire or SPI are preferable. An added advantage is that MICROWIRE/PLUS microcontrollers can talk to SPI peripherals and SPI microcontrollers can talk to Microwire peripherals with minimum additional software overhead, which gives you a large selection of available peripherals to choose from for most applications.

(continued)
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phigmeta

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Xenium Vs X3
« Reply #56 on: January 09, 2004, 02:39:00 PM »

Conclusions
SPI's and Microwire's full duplex capability and fast data rates make those interfaces very efficient and simple for single master - single slave applications. In practical applications, the requirement for dedicated slave select signals severely limits the number of slave devices that can be connected to a microcontroller. Multi-master systems significantly increase complexity and are very rarely used with those two interfaces.  
I2C's lower speed and more complex protocol put it at a disadvantage in single master-single slave applications. Its weakness turns into strength if a larger number of slave devices needs to be connected or a multi-master system is needed.
All three interfaces have the advantage of being tolerant to large oscillator variations, as all data transfers are synchronized to the master's shift clock. As synchronous interfaces they are, however, limited to bridging short distances on a single PCB or between PCBs within a smaller system. When it comes to bridging larger distances or connecting external devices, asynchronous interfaces play a dominant role and we will start looking at some of them in part 3 of this series.

ONE NOTE: the i2c bus is actually already ON the Xbox and is actually Accessible via the LPC …. So in reality the only thing the executer did for this is just make the modchip addressable via i2c ….. not a huge deal but it is kinda nice.

Winner:  XEN

With a higher bus speed and a more flexible architecture the SPI port allows for a more elegant design and upgrade path.

LPT/USB Programmer

Well I have to give this to the X3 team … though I am almost positive that the XEN team will make an external programmer.

Winner: X3

FINAL CONCLUSTION
With all of the talk about the X3 Live feature I have to simply say …. I wil believe it when I see it … now I am not saying it won’t happen but I just don’t have any facts …. This post only deals with things that a factual …. If I was to base my judgement on promises then I would pick the X3 …. But truth be told I don’t … and because the XEN team has made no promises then I am only dealing with what we know.

As for the other features … well so far none of them are compelling enough to devote text too so I will just leave them be.

This said there can be only one Choice.


And the winner is:

Xenium chip

With its elegant design and the future ability to talk i2c (yes you can transmit i2c over SPI) this chip has proven to me that it has the ability to really become the defacto standard in modchip improvements …. The executer chip has great promise but the design is overcomplicated and the structure of the bus system can potentially create severe issue for xbox modders out there ….

Let us not ever forget the 2.x fiasco ….. I know I won’t.
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Flagg3

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Xenium Vs X3
« Reply #57 on: January 09, 2004, 02:53:00 PM »

Wow.  I can't believe that I read all of that.

Interesting info.  One thing I won't do is declare a winner of two chips that are not yet shipping.  

As for even after they both finally ship, both chips have tremendous potential, we'll have to see which team best exploits that potential.  Until then it's all speculation.

Flagg
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heinrich

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« Reply #58 on: January 09, 2004, 03:45:00 PM »

phigmeta, no offense, but we are trying to keep all this in one place, even if you or someone else starts a new thread trying to start an intelligent discussion, someone will always come along like the previous poster, and things go downhill from there.

(threads merged)
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SniperKilla

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« Reply #59 on: January 09, 2004, 05:52:00 PM »

QUOTE (phigmeta @ Jan 9 2004, 11:08 PM)
I would first start by saying.... I HATE the executer team.... but I have no particular fondness of the other manufactures. In my humble opinion ALL of the Modchip folks are childish and have no business being in the business world.  With that said.... I present you with :

i like you unbased opinion on people that you dont even know, im sure they have the same opinion about you.
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