Print

[jesterrace777]

While I recommend Lite-On DVD-ROM drives, I just find their burners too picky to be worth the purchase.  When comparing error rates on media, ect. Lite-Ons always seem to score higher than other drives (higher being worse in this case).  Anyways, The 16x Pioneer 108 can be had for under $100 shipped from http://www.newegg.com.  Pioneer is my first choice for burners as they have been in the game the longest and they are definitely the best choice for Ritek DVD-R (probably the most recommended media for the cost).  That and the 108 supports D/L DVD writing up to 4x and is setup to automatically write D/L DVD+R with the booktype being set to DVD-ROM which is critical for ensuring the widest range of compatibility on players/game consoles.  It should be noted though, that there isn't any 16x media as of yet so you will have to wait a bit for that.  Anyways here is the link:

http://www.newegg.co...-129-156&depa=0

[jesterrace777]

But there are no booktype/bitsetting options (forced or otherwise) for it as of yet.  As for burning alot quicker that is BS.  Both are 16x DVD Burners.  The only respect in which the NEC is faster is that it is also a 48x CD Burner vs. the Pioneer being only 32x.  Even so the difference in time spent burning there is tiny at best.  At most you will be saving one minute of CD-R burning time with the NEC, so unless you plan on burning CD-Rs 24-7 there won't be any noticeable difference, and if you were burning that many CD-Rs you should definitely have a seperate CD-RW drive as you would burn out your DVD-RW well before it's time.   I for one would gladly sacrifice the extra minute on the occasional CD-R in order to enjoy the maximum compatibility of having my DVD+R discs being burnt with the booktype automatically set at DVD-ROM.  It should also be noted that Pioneer has a much better track record with NEC when it comes to stock firmware.  Don't get me wrong, the upgrade options for the NEC are great (although the 3500A is still too new to have many) but there is something to be said for having a burner function smoothly right out of the box.  As mentioned above, Pioneer also have the best track record BAR NONE when it comes to Ritek DVD-R.

[stacker69]

QUOTE (jesterrace777 @ Sep 4 2004, 09:35 PM)

But there are no booktype/bitsetting options (forced or otherwise) for it as of yet.  As for burning alot quicker that is BS.  Both are 16x DVD Burners.

QUOTE

Also the NEC writes using CAV at 16x, meaning constant disc revolution speeds for and entire burn, unlike Z-CLV used by Pioneer. The burn time difference CAV vs. Z-CLV is also quite significant - 5min55sec vs. 6min54sec (my best times) for 16x.

Look here jesterrace777 http://forums.whirlp...es.cfm?t=236207

So it's not BS.

[Mr Ed]

Well, all that is interesting (I went to the site and did some reading) so this is the first NEC I would consider buying apparently.

However, I've been on this site for a long time, and while this may be NEC's best drive to date, I can tell you in the past, more people have posted with problems from NECs than with Pioneers.  Is that about to change with the 3500?  Perhaps.  Can a company improve over time?  Sure.  Have they?  Only time will tell.

So it's a question of, do you trust the drive based on its specs?  Or do you purchase a drive based on the history of their products?  

[Mr Ed]

BTW here's a summary of the review of the Pioneer 108 by crdinfo.  They haven't apparently reviewed the NEC 3500 yet, so no comparison.

QUOTE

- The Good Supports 4X DL writing speed Quiet operation Supports DVD-ROM booktype for DVD+R9 format Very good CD error correction Very good DVD error correction Good CD writing quality Supports reading of DVD-RAM media Can overburn up to 90mins Supports CD-Text (reading/writing) - The Bad Low CD recording speed (32X) Cannot recognize Key2Audio protected discs Cannot backup accurately newest SD2 protected titles Very slow reader when reading SD2 protected titles Doesn't support Mount Rainier for CD/DVD formats Doesn't support overburning for DVD±R formats Doesn't support DVD-ROM booktype for DVD+R/+RW formats Doesn't report C2 errors Cannot be used to measure C1C2/PIPO errors for CD/DVD media - Like To be fixed High PIF error rates with specific media High 3T Pit/Land Jitter values CSS DVD-Video ripping speed could be higher Restricted supported media list for 12X/16X (can be fixed with firmware  upgrade) Ripping problems with CDS200 protected Audio discs Recognition/ripping problems with 90/99min Audio discs

[jesterrace777]

Anyone who calls 1 minute of burning time significant needs to go get some medication for his ADD.  Anyways, I really wouldn't trust a full 16x burn for PS2 or XBOX backups.  Keep in mind that most of these people are making DVD-R movie backups which is a whole different ballgame.

[jesterrace777]

The DMS3 recieves high marks as does the Messiah 2.  I personally recommend the DMS3 for it's reliability and flexibilty.  For more info. visit PS2ownz or PS2newz.

[jesterrace777]

QUOTE (stacker69 @ Sep 4 2004, 09:53 AM)

Yeah the pioneer 108 is awesome but have a look at the NEC ND 3500A. It burns a lot quicker and I 've heard that it matches the burn quality of Pioneer.

I know but from that post, you implied that there was a world of difference in time savings and that was my point.

[jesterrace777]

I hate to nit-pick here but you did say "a lot quicker" and that to me implies that there is a significant difference in burning time.  IMHO 1 minute of time savings is not significant unless you are burning 24-7.

[AZImmortal]

QUOTE (Mr Ed @ Sep 4 2004, 09:47 AM)

Well, all that is interesting (I went to the site and did some reading) so this is the first NEC I would consider buying apparently. However, I've been on this site for a long time, and while this may be NEC's best drive to date, I can tell you in the past, more people have posted with problems from NECs than with Pioneers.  Is that about to change with the 3500?  Perhaps.  Can a company improve over time?  Sure.  Have they?  Only time will tell. So it's a question of, do you trust the drive based on its specs?  Or do you purchase a drive based on the history of their products?

it's certainly true that the first NEC dvd burners (1100A/1300A) were spotty with their compatibility with less-than-stellar media and that Pioneer reigned supreme with their burn quality.  however, the 2500A has been out for a long time now with no such complaints, and the latest NEC burners consistently burn with the lowest PI/PIF rates across practically all types of media so i think things have already changed.  also, the NEC drives rival Lite-On drives in terms of popularity with firmware modding, so improvements are always being made (such as dvd+r/rw bitsetting, changes in write strategy, etc).  Pioneer drives have no such following.

QUOTE

Keep in mind that most of these people are making DVD-R movie backups which is a whole different ballgame.

the type of disc you're burning actually makes no difference to the burner or the media.  the error rates will be the same whether you're burning a movie dvd or an xbox game.

[Mr Ed]

QUOTE (AZImmortal @ Sep 4 2004, 06:40 PM)

the type of disc you're burning actually makes no difference to the burner or the media.  the error rates will be the same whether you're burning a movie dvd or an xbox game.

Not necessarily but I think the point was the XBOX DVD drive is a lot more picky than the average set top DVD player.  

Also, if you drop a bit playing back a DVD movie, you get some pixelation but the data flow continues.  If you drop a bit on an XBOX game, the game will freeze due to a read error, so no, it really does make a difference what kind of DVD you are burning.

Lastly, I still think I remember a lot of problems with the 2500s as well.  Didn't you have to get a new firmware as soon as the first 2500s came out?  While I run hacked firmware in all my burners, seems to me like if you don't want to do anything funky (region free, burn slow media at high speeds, etc.), you should be able to use the drive out of the box without upgrading firmware or anything.  The idea of buying a drive that immediately needs service/or a firmware upgrade just to get it to work out of the box seems pretty bad to me.  The average user shouldn't have to worry about such things.  If this wasn't the 2500 that had this problem, then I take back this comment, as I can't remember specifically.

[jesterrace777]

[jesterrace777]

Plextor makes excellent CD-RW drives and built a hell of a reputation for themselves there but their DVD burners leave something to be desired.  They are at least $50 more than a comparable spec Pioneer and so far the only advantage that I can see to them is for Karaoke applications.  Although they might support HD CD-R burning which could come in handy.  Not sure on that one though.  Mr.ED pointed out that Plextors were among the most problematic burners that he had seen on this forum.  So I would say at least for XBOX applications that they definitely are not the best.  It is true that Plextors will probably last longer but I would much rather invest less in a burner and have it burn out in a couple of years (by that time there are faster burners with more features and they are cheaper in cost).  Than have a Plextor that costs me so much more and is outdated 2-3 years down the road.

[stacker69]