Print

[PreludeOfDeath]

So I have a new Television that I got a few months ago, and I have some questions about Video output.

The television is a 46" Panasonic Plasma, it supports all resolutions up to 1080p.

I currently have the following hooked up:
DirecTV HD-DVR  ::  HDMI
Xbox 360  ::  HDMI
Playstation 3  ::  HDMI
Xbox  ::  Analog (RGB)
Playstation 2  ::  Analog (RGB)
Wii  ::  Analog (RGB)

I currently use my PS3 or Xbox 360 for DVD Playback.
I know that XBMC is capable of Upconverting Video, but obviously with RGB, 480i is as high as it will go.

Would it help Video Output to get Component Cables? -Is the output THAT much better?
Would it help Video Output to Mod in S-Video or any other output?
If adding Component Video Cables, will the output be better than standard output by my PS3?

Would my PS2 be greatly enhanced with Component Video?
Would my Wii be enhanced with Component Video?

I guess in the end, I am wondering, Is it worth the cost ($10-$20 per cable) to replace the RGB with Component Video?


I currently have 2 open Component Video slots, 1 VGA, 1 S-Video available on my TV.

[Heimdall]

What colour are the connectors you refer to as "Analog (RGB)"? If they are red, white and green, plus a separate red and white for audio, then they are already component cables.

On the other hand, if they are yellow, white and red then they aren't RGB, they are composite video (yellow) plus audio left and right (white and red). In that case component (YPbPr) would be significantly better, certainly for the Xbox - and I'd guess the same is true for the PS2 and the Wii.

The fact that your current resolution is limited to 480i suggests that you are currently using composite, so an upgrade to component would definitely give you an improvement, and allow you to run XBMC at higher resolutions.

[XBOXCUSTOMS69]

Component and RGB are capable of full HD picture and are both analog signals. Heimdall is correct, if you are using composite either one would make a huge difference.

[PreludeOfDeath]

QUOTE(Heimdall @ Jun 22 2009, 12:07 PM)

What colour are the connectors you refer to as "Analog (RGB)"? If they are red, white and green, plus a separate red and white for audio, then they are already component cables.

On the other hand, if they are yellow, white and red then they aren't RGB, they are composite video (yellow) plus audio left and right (white and red). In that case component (YPbPr) would be significantly better, certainly for the Xbox - and I'd guess the same is true for the PS2 and the Wii.

The fact that your current resolution is limited to 480i suggests that you are currently using composite, so an upgrade to component would definitely give you an improvement, and allow you to run XBMC at higher resolutions.

Heh, sorry my wording was wrong. My current cables are Yellow - Red - White
So Composite.

If I use Component on my Xbox, what does XBMC output? Is it like 720p comparable?

Does XBMC upconversion look a lot better?

Just trying to justify cost...

[Heimdall]

Doh! I should engage my brain more before typing. Component video uses red, green and blue connectors (not red, white and green), plus a separate red and white for the audio. Obvious, really.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Yes, you are currently using composite, so you will see a difference if you update to component, because you can run at 480p / 720p. You can also run XBMC at 1080i, but I think it has some limitations. There are some comparison pictures on the web somewhere - if I can find them I'll post a link.

Edit: I'm not sure the PS2 supports any better than 480i, so you may not notice any improvement with the PS2.

This post has been edited by Heimdall: Jun 22 2009, 07:17 PM

[Heimdall]

Sorry - missed the edit.

Here's the link I was thinking of, showing 480i vs 480p. 720p is even better....

[PreludeOfDeath]

QUOTE(Heimdall @ Jun 22 2009, 01:23 PM)

Sorry - missed the edit.

Here's the link I was thinking of, showing 480i vs 480p. 720p is even better.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I am on my phone, so there is a chance it is my Phone not loading it, but that webpage seems to be down....

[Heimdall]

It's working fine over broadband - it's a bit slow to load, but otherwise no problems.

It wouldn't do much good on your phone anyway - I doubt you'd be able to see the difference.

[PreludeOfDeath]

QUOTE(Heimdall @ Jun 22 2009, 02:53 PM)

It's working fine over broadband - it's a bit slow to load, but otherwise no problems.

It wouldn't do much good on your phone anyway - I doubt you'd be able to see the difference. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I can see it now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
That does look a lot better... Well, I may have to look into Component Cables now... haha

Thanks for all the information!

[silvabullet79]

QUOTE(PreludeOfDeath @ Jun 22 2009, 09:56 AM)

I currently use my PS3 or Xbox 360 for DVD Playback.
I know that XBMC is capable of Upconverting Video, but obviously with RGB, 480i is as high as it will go.

If you're major concern is upconverting DVD's then I wouldn't worry about using XBMC.  Your PS3 through HDMI is already doing that, and it's doing it better.  I have my XBOX360 connected through HDMI on a 1080p resolution and my DVD's look nice,. although I'm not sure if the 360 does any upconversion the way the PS3 does.

QUOTE(PreludeOfDeath @ Jun 22 2009, 09:56 AM)

Would it help Video Output to get Component Cables? -Is the output THAT much better?

Component Cables will always help when chosen over Composite.  Components are capable of outputting the various progressive resolutions (HD).  Composite can only output in 480i (SD).

You ask "Is the output THAT much better?"  The only factor is going to be how keen is your eye to spotting the difference.  If you're getting Component to go from a 480i to 720p (or higher) then you'll notice a very substantial difference.  If you're getting it to go from 480i to 480p it might not be as noticeable but you'll still see a difference.  I mean you're going to have to see some kind of difference because you'll be seeing 480 scan lines per frame on 480p compared to the 240 scan lines per frame with 480i.

QUOTE(PreludeOfDeath @ Jun 22 2009, 09:56 AM)

Would it help Video Output to Mod in S-Video or any other output?

S-Video is crap don't waste your time/money.  The leap from Composite to S-Video is as substantial as the leap from Sega Genesis to Sega 32x.  It was worthless and didn't offer anything except to fill the pockets of those who created it.  You mentioned modding an output I assume you're talking about on the XBOX.  In any case if you're going to do that go the vga route.

QUOTE(PreludeOfDeath @ Jun 22 2009, 09:56 AM)

If adding Component Video Cables, will the output be better than standard output by my PS3?

I'm not sure what you mean,. but I wanna say no.  I'm not sure what you're referring to as "Standard Output".  If your PS3 is outputting through HDMI at 1080p, then No.  Component will never compare to HDMI.  Plus when you're talking about the last gen consoles, none of those consoles can output in anything close to 1080p anyways so they'll always look worse in comparison to the PS3/360 through HDMI.

QUOTE(PreludeOfDeath @ Jun 22 2009, 09:56 AM)

Would my PS2 be greatly enhanced with Component Video?

"Greatly enhanced" No.  But you will see an enhancement.  The PS2 wasn't designed to take advantage of todays HDTV's.  I think there's only like 5 PS2 games that even output in 480p, everything else is 480i.  Components would still help, but they'll only offer a small help.  Your HDTV will undoubtedly show the limitations of the PS2's dated hardware regardless of which cable you purchase.  (I'm currently experiencing this one right now.  I just bought a set of PS3 component cables for my PS2.  They work for both consoles and seeing as how Sony decided to discontinue making them for the PS2 it essentially forced me into buy the PS3 ones.) I mean Why offer PS2 component cables when you can repackage the same cables as PS3 cables and charge 10 dollars more?  

QUOTE(PreludeOfDeath @ Jun 22 2009, 09:56 AM)

Would my Wii be enhanced with Component Video?

Yes.  I have components for my Wii and it looks great.  I wish I could tell you what the Wii can output in but I don't remember off the top of my head.  I think it can output in all except 1080p.  Either way, components for this console are a good choice.  Also,. ALOT of the GameCube games ran at 480p and when you pop a GC game into the Wii (with component cables connected) the GC game, if it runs at 480p, will recognize that you have the cable plugged in and prompt you if you'd like to play that game in 480p.

QUOTE(PreludeOfDeath @ Jun 22 2009, 09:56 AM)

I guess in the end, I am wondering, Is it worth the cost ($10-$20 per cable) to replace the RGB with Component Video?
I currently have 2 open Component Video slots, 1 VGA, 1 S-Video available on my TV.

I'd definitely get the Wii components.  The components for the XBOX would also be a good purchase although some would probably try to convince you to go the VGA route.  It seems like alot of work though.  The PS2 component cables would help, but since you're going to have to buy the more expensive PS3 cables, you're looking at a 25 dollar purchase for a cable that will help a little, but not much.  I guess it all depends on how much you still use your PS2, and if that little boost would be worth it to you.  


Also if this helps I'll rank the various cable types from 1 to 5, 5 being the best.

5 - HDMI / DVI (both of these carry a digital signal and are capable of displaying high resolutions)  DVI is usually found on monitors and HDMI is generally found on HDTV's.  The differences in video quality are very small (if there's even any difference at all)  Their one difference is that HDMI can also output digital audio as where DVI only outputs video.

4 - Component / VGA (a.k.a. RGB) (both of these carry an analog signal)  Their differences are few.  VGA is usually associated with PC's and Monitors while Component is associated with TV's.  Both display RGB.  Although VGA handles other things as well.  Such as H-syncs, V-syncs, refresh rates, things more commonly found in PC monitors.  Seeing as how consoles are specifically designed to run on TV's I usually choose Component over VGA.

3 - S-Video  I almost hate to rank this one because it's improvements over Composite are negligible.  It offers a slight improvement over Composite.  Nothing that you're going to notice on your HDTV.  This cable phased out almost as quickly as it came in.  Why companies are still offering this port on their HDTV's puzzles me.  I guess they want to give the customer (who uses S-Video) the option.  Anyway,  just because it's ranked 3 doesn't mean that it's ANYWHERE close to 4.

2 - Composite  It's been out for a VERY long time.  It's done it's job and it did it well but it's definitely on it's way out.  It's advantages were that it separated the video signal from the audio signal back when Coax was the standard.  Just about every cable now a days does this (with the exception of HDMI.  HDMI doesn't need to separate the two signals because it's capable of transfering both audio and video at a high bandwidth without the need of compression.)

1 - Coax  I rated this a 1 because as far as for videogame consoles,. this is the worst.  But Coax is by no means a bad cable.  It just depends on it's specific application.  It works well for digital TV.  It also works well for Highspeed Internet.  It's design allows it to carry an electric current which gives way for signal boosting.  This makes it the cable of choice for people wanting to transfer information over a long distance.  It doesn't effect digital output as much as analog because digital is much more compression friendly.  This is because a Digital signal can be more effectively decompressed on the receiving end than an analog one.

[Red_Breast]

Just thought I'd add some stuff.

RGB is used in fully wired SCART connections. This is RGB and composite sync (horizontal and vertical on one pin). It's 15kHz interlaced and only standard definition but the picture is better than composite and s-video.

RGB is also used in D-sub/VGA connections. This time the sync is on separate pins (horizontal and vertical) at 30kHz. Note the kHz is not to be confused with Hz as in PAL broadcasts at 50Hz and NTSC at 60Hz.

I have my Xbox plugged into an old PC CRT monitor. As it doesn't have component inputs I use a component to D-sub/VGA adaptor.

I can't remember if you said where you're from but to use component with a Xbox it needs to be NTSC. If it's PAL it's easy to convert.

SCART and D-sub use a pin each for the red , green and blue and a pin each to ground each one (6 pins).

Whilst component has red, green and blue plugs the signals they carry aren't exactly R, G and B signals. They carry colour information resulting in less bandwidth and storage needed.
Component is sometimes called colour space although RGB can also be called a colour space.

Good luck.

[silvabullet79]

QUOTE(Heimdall @ Jun 22 2009, 11:23 AM)

Sorry - missed the edit.

Here's the link I was thinking of, showing 480i vs 480p. 720p is even better....

Also, take note that the pictures shown here are on the XBOX.  I'm sure as you read this you're thinking "Duh, no s***", but I'm only bringing it up because you mentioned having a PS2.  I want to point out that you won't get these kinds of results on a PS2.  The PS2 runs at a native 480i and so do almost all of it's games.  The component cables for the PS2 will make the picture a tiny bit nicer but it doesn't clean it up.  It's still blurry for the most part.  The only time you'll see a difference is when you're playing those select few games that run in 480p.

[Heimdall]

QUOTE(silvabullet79 @ Jun 24 2009, 10:50 PM)

4 - Component / VGA (a.k.a. RGB) (both of these carry an analog signal)  Their differences are few.  VGA is usually associated with PC's and Monitors while Component is associated with TV's.  Both display RGB.  Although VGA handles other things as well.  Such as H-syncs, V-syncs, refresh rates, things more commonly found in PC monitors.  Seeing as how consoles are specifically designed to run on TV's I usually choose Component over VGA.

Sorry to be picky, but component isn't RGB, it's YPbPr. It achieves broadly the same picture quality as RGB by separating out the colour components, but it then transmits luma (Y, approximately R+G+B, effectively a brightness signal plus a sync signal) down one cable, and Pb (B-Y) and Pr (R-Y) down the other two cables. The receiver (TV) then converts this back into RGB by combining the signals:

B = Pb + Y
R = Pr + Y
G = -Y - Pb - Pr

QUOTE(silvabullet79 @ Jun 24 2009, 10:50 PM)

It doesn't effect digital output as much as analog because digital is much more compression friendly. This is because a Digital signal can be more effectively decompressed on the receiving end than an analog one.

Again, sorry to be picky, but this isn't quite right. Digital TV signals over coax are affected just as much by noise and other transmission errors, but the error correction means that the perceived output doesn't degrade linearly. It has nothing to do with relative effectiveness of digital vs analogue decompression, because analogue TV signals aren't compressed in the first place.

[silvabullet79]

Thanks for clearing that up.  (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)   All of which I posted was my understanding of what I've learned this far.  Anytime confusion on my part can be cleared it's well appreciated.

[Mjollnir]

As a side note, YUV color space (which YPbPr is variant) came about when they were introducing color television, and the whole idea was to enable backward compatibility with black and white TV. Y is effectively the black/white image to put it simply.