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[mattb]

I know I'm going off topic a bit, but this issue must be addressed. What the hell is up with Blue laser and ultra high density dvd discs? I have a HDTV and want a little bit more than travel shows. Has anybody heard what the major companies are doing or better yet the FCC? I'm anxious as hell and I need answers .

BTW- I wonder if Xbox2 will utilize similar technology for its expansive games.

[Mr Ed]

First of all you need a reality check.  Right now if you want you can get HD 1080i content on D-VHS.  I’ve never seen Die Hard look so good.  It's simply beautiful.

Now assuming for whatever reason you don’t want to do that, Blu Ray isn’t going to be available here until mid 2005.  And then there probably won't be any movies available except for some travel documentaries.

More reality check.  Remember when DVD players were new?  My first DVD player which was a second generation one was $800.  That’s right.  So, now assuming Blu Ray players (and say 5 movies-remember content will be a problem for the first two years) become available by mid 2005  The players will be close to $1,000.  It will take at least a year before they fall below $500.

Also, Hollywood hasn’t been quick to jump on the Blu-Ray bandwagon.  In fact, a lot of studios are supporting the HD-DVD (that’s the stupid 15GB disc) because the manufacturing process is cheaper and similar to current DVDs.

Will the XBOX2 have a Blu-Ray drive?  No way.  It’s too expensive.  No game system will until around 2008 at a minimum.  Remember how long it took before game consoles moved from cartridges to CD-ROMs and then to DVDs?

Yes, the idea of HD video on a DVD is exciting, unfortunately the technology is moving at a snails pace mostly because of business/politics.  I’m guessing you won’t have an HD DVD player before 2006.

BTW not sure what the FCC has to do with recordable media, but if you are talking about broadcasting, you can assume the same slow ramp up of local channels carrying HD content as has been going on for years.  Next season the majority of prime time shows should be in HD if you live in a city (i.e. not rural.)  The FCC has waterdown its timelines/guidelines so much that stations can basically adopt HDTV when they feel like it.

[Mr Ed]

There’s also one other problem HD DVDs face.  Slow adoption rate.  Sure people like you and I think DVDs look terribly low resolution and can’t wait for something better.  The problem is, most people don’t feel that way.  Most people are still “wowed” by the resolution of DVDs and are quite happy with them.  What does that mean for us?  It mean that HD DVD players won’t sell in quantity right away which means their price won’t drop and not many movies will come out for them.  When the DVD first came out, it was time for VHS to start going away.  But right now, current DVDs are still “good enough” for the consumer so there will not be the huge rush to upgrade like there was for DVDs.  So that means, fewer movies, over a longer period of time, and higher prices for players/recorders.  Heck I can get a free Tivo if I sign up for DirectTV or Dish, but if I want an HD Tivo, I have to pay $1,000~$1,300.  That’s crazy.  But most people aren’t ready for HD, so the price is high.  For a while early adopters of HD DVDs like we will be will be just like Laserdisc owners.  Not in the mainstream.  Audiophiles/videophiles.  With not a great selection of content, and few places to rent.

[M-K-E!]

i dont know about the thing in there about game consoles using it until 2008, i remember reading an article that the ps3 is going to use the blu ray disc's developed by sony for it's consoles.  ill try to find a link to the article..

edit,

here's one of the many link's to it (googl ps3 blu ray)

http://www.ps3land.c...s/article24.php

QUOTE ("xbox next spec's")

Memory/Storage 256MB+ System RAM 80GB+ Removeable/Internal Hard Drive/Flash Memory storage Dual-layer DVD (9.4GB), Blu-Ray disks (25GB+) or custom MS disk.

[mattb]

Well I guess it's my crazy ass that demands Nazi-like precision and quality from all my electronics. The Chinese have already jumped on the ball with HD-DVD and the sorts.Chinese HD DVD. How bout the Skyworth HVD-3050 at $150 US? American consumers are clowns if they don't want to adopt this technology as their own and improve upon it! It might not be popular or even perfect, but it is a great first step.

[Mr Ed]

Well, again, you can have it all right now.  Just pick up a D-VHS VCR.  

Here's a refurb for $400.  
http://www.macmall.c...mail,mwbfroogle

I had one for two weeks and it was great.  I returned it due to an inability to record ATSC material with my HDTV because my Sony HDTV doesn't fully implement the FireWire specification.    I had specifically bought it the VCR to be able to record in HD, but since you are shopping for non-recordable technology, this shortcoming shouldn't be an issue to you.

Anyway, it was great.  You should stop complaining and get one  

As for those cheap DVDs.  Have you seen the capacity?  D-VHS tapes are over 50GB.  A dual layer Blu-Ray disc is over 50GB.  That's the type of storage capacity you need for good HD bitrates and content.  I couldn't find the capacity of an EVD disc, but I bet it's too low.  It looks like they are using MPEG4/WM9 type codecs to try and get more video out of a lower capacity disc.  The reviewer even said the color/resolution wasn't as good as his standard DVD of Hero.  This IMHO is not HDTV.  WM9 is not HDTV.  Only MPEG2 is HDTV.

Anyway, I agree the technology should be coming out faster.  But like I said, if you want movies in HDTV, get yourself a JVC D-VHS VCR and some D-Theater movies.  Otherwise, you're going to have to wait for Blu-Ray, which will eventually win the format wars, for better or worse (I'm not a Sony fan-in general I hate their products, but I'm a big HDTV, and ironically, I ended up buying a Sony HDTV)  

[Mr Ed]

QUOTE (mattb @ Jul 16 2004, 03:58 PM)

but it is a great first step.

IMHO it's a horrible first step.  In fact it's not a first step,  it's the second step.  D-VHS was the first step.  It's a step backwards from what we have with D-VHS for over two years!  

[mattb]

what's the movie selection like on d-vhs and where can I find an abundance of movies?

[mattb]

BTW- How fast is D-VHS growing, in your opinion? And do you think it will become a household name?

[Mr Ed]

QUOTE (mattb @ Jul 17 2004, 05:39 PM)

BTW- How fast is D-VHS growing, in your opinion?

slowly

QUOTE (mattb @ Jul 17 2004, 05:39 PM)

BTW- How fast is D-VHS growing, in your opinion? And do you think it will become a household name?

No not at all, it will be like Laserdiscs were.  It will never have a catalog the size of VHS although, so far neither has DVD.  But it will never even have a catalog of movies as large as DVD.  But if you want HDTV movies now, it's the only game in town.

[Mr Ed]

QUOTE (mattb @ Jul 17 2004, 05:21 PM)

what's the movie selection like on d-vhs

There are more movies available in this format than for EVD or in WM9.  There are probably more movies available in this format than there will be for Blu-Ray for about 2 years.  But selection is limited, no doubt.  In two years from now, I expect the number of Blu-Ray movies will surpass the number of D-VHS movies.

QUOTE (mattb @ Jul 17 2004, 05:21 PM)

what's the movie selection like on d-vhs and where can I find an abundance of movies?

Well, Amazon carries a lot of D-VHS.

http://www.dvdempire.com  probably has the best selection.

http://www.dvhsmovieguide.com lists about all the movies available.

[Jagosix]

QUOTE (M-K-E! @ Jul 15 2004, 07:52 PM)

i dont know about the thing in there about game consoles using it until 2008, i remember reading an article that the ps3 is going to use the blu ray disc's developed by sony for it's consoles.  ill try to find a link to the article.. edit, here's one of the many link's to it (googl ps3 blu ray) http://www.ps3land.c...s/article24.php

Hello, Dude do u realise the cost of the Blu-Ray drive & Disc ? Then cost in the Factor of the developers that have to produce games on that Disc? The Cost will be passed on Down to the consumers, who will not be a happy bunch. Even though we're talkin about 2yrs Down the rd. I don't think the Price of Blu-Ray's going2 drop so low that Sony can include them in a console by 2005-6. If they did the cost of the system would be say...$700+  & the games would be about  $70-$100 (blank blu-rays cost about $50 ea.)
Also Sony would be banking the Cost per console (ala M$) if they Did incorporate the Blu-Ray Disc. Sony has a lot of money, But even their pockets arent as deep as M$. But .. I'll just use the wait & c approach.


u can learn something from everybody.

[Mr Ed]

Right, but the point is, they aren't going to put something that costs that much in a game system.  Around 2008 Blu-Ray will be as cheap as you are talking, and then they might put it in, but not in one or two years.

So let's review...

Pioneer released the DVR-A03 in 2001.  Probably cost $600 and blank discs were $25.  It took around 4 years before the prices fell so much that they might consider putting them in a game system.  Blu-Ray adoption will be slower as most consumers are happy enough with DVDs.  So it will be over 4 years before these things drop that much in price.

[apw100]

Honestly, your best bet for HD movies is HBO-HD, Cinemax-HD, or ShowtimeHD.  As for games, why?  What would be the point?  Game developers have a hard enough time filling up one DVD, let alone a 50GB disc.  Even when they do fill up the DVD, most of it is boring cut scenes, not actual game data.  There is no way that Blu-Ray will be incorporated into any of the next-gen consoles.  Maybe the next-next-gen ones....   There just isnt any justification for adding expensive new technology when the old format was just fine.
The only way any sort of Blu-Ray or other HD technology would be incorporated into a console would be as a way to stop piracy(similar to how Nintendo used a custom DVD disc, and Dreamcast(to no avail) used a GDROM disc).  On the other hand, never say never.... lol

[irfan]

aside from the HD DVD talk.... i thought the FCC mandated DTV regulations for TV stations, not HDTV.  i thought that all stations had to be DTV (jsut digital) by a certain point that im sure has already passed, but gives no rules at all as to when the stations have to produce HDTV signals.. DTV would be 480p signals, or EDTV, but i didnt think the FCC said a word about making stations HDTV.. i thought that it was solely up to the station to decide if they want to broadcast in HDTV.