Topic: Hdtv Recomendations (Read 88 times)

muell67 · « **on:** July 08, 2004, 05:36:00 PM »

Im looking to buy a new TV and I want something with hdtv, 4:3 aspect ratio, and 36". Im looking at toshibas the 36HF73 & 36HFX73 but Ive been told they are being discontiued. Anyone have sugestions? Ive heard the sony wega's only show HD in letterbox so If I was playing a game that only supports 4:3 I would have a black bar on all four sides of the picture the toshibas can stretch the image.

ChrisF · « **Reply #1 on:** July 08, 2004, 06:16:00 PM »

Do not buy a 4:3 HDTV (at least not a direct view set which is what you are looking at). HDTV resolutions (720p and 1080i) are by definition 16:9 - there is no such thing as 4:3 HDTV image. The 4:3 HDTVs take a 16:9 image and either zoom it by cropping out the sides or show it with black bars on the top and bottom. They are quickly becoming nearly gone as they really don't support HD that well due to their incompatible shape and widescreen DVDs aren't in the game either. You can also rule out any 480p Xbox game that supports widescreen.

A few years ago these sets were still a viable option but as more and more widescreen media becomes available it defeats the purpose of these sets. I usually don't have a strong opinion on something like this since it's individual choice but unless you get an absolutely outrageous deal you will be regreting this purchase very quickly if you plan on watching DVDs, HDTV, or gaming with a next generation console. You will loose on all 3 of those. Most of these sets are totally phased out or on their way. They are sort of a between generation that is getting the final nails put in its coffin within the next year or so.

There are a lot of other options out there at good prices. Rear projection CRT sets produce some outrageous quality images and can be had dirt cheap from time to time. You might also think about a front projector if you have the wall space and reasonably light controlled environment (DLP based X1 or similar). I'm not sure what your price range is but I'm guessing rear projection DLP/LCD and plasma is out if you are looking at direct views.

Some good forums are www.avsforum.com and www.hometheaterspot.com. I can't imagine anyone there is going to tell you anything different on 4:3 direct view HDTVs but they are great places to read up on your options and what else is out there.

muell67 · « **Reply #2 on:** July 08, 2004, 06:36:00 PM »

the main reason I wanted to go with a 4:3 was all the older game systems I have, Im a collecter and I like to have them all hooked up. Would I still be able to play older systems like atari 2600 and nes with a 16:9? I guess it would just put black bars on the sides. The reason Im not looking at rear projection is I thought games would damage the screen, I also do not like sitting that far from the screen. Im looking to spend under $1500 do you have any suggestions?

ChrisF · « **Reply #3 on:** July 09, 2004, 04:59:00 AM »

The under $1500 is the kicker. That puts you in either a CRT-RPTV, low-end front projector, or direct view.

As far as burn-in on a CRT based RPTV it is certainly possible but has become much more rare. If you have your brightness and contrast (most important) set correctly it shouldn't be a major issue as long as you mix up your viewing and don't play the same game with the same static images for an inordinate amount of time (think playing the same tank board on Atari 2600 Combat and leaving it on the screen for hours at a time and watching nothing else for a week). That said, you can't just forget about it and do horrible stuff to your set. If you think your viewing and gaming are able to strike a balance that will work then you should be cool. If not then this might not be an option for you.

16:9 televisions have stretch modes to fill the screen so 4:3 gaming isn't a huge issue unless it's very distortive. If you insist on using 4:3 there are hopefully grey rather than black bars to reduce the possibility of burn-in. That said, those bars are fixed in place so it's not something you'd want to use all the time on a CRT based RPTV but for direct view or dlp/lcd -front projectors it shouldn't be an issue.

Things that I'd be looking at are:

CRT-RPTV: if you think your viewing and gaming can strike a balance and you aren't going to have the same static images on the screen all the time this is a good option. Fairly cheap with some great deals as the 2005 models role out. Boscov's just had my set Mits 55413 for somewhere around $1350 in the past few weeks. That is an outrageous deal as many stores still have them going for $2000 and brand new they were around $2400 at intro. Mits doesn't work with Xbox 720p through the component inputs so that is a short coming (Pioneer also). Maybe look at Toshiba or Hitachi. Tosh is doing some major price slashing on upcoming models so something to keep in mind.

Front Projection: You need a reasonably light controlled room. This isn't really my forte but the Infocus X1 can be had for a bit under $1K. It supports 4:3 but you can project such a big image that it doesn't matter. It is DLP based so no burn-in potential. That said, a small protion of people see rainbows on current generation DLP based products so make sure you aren't one of those.

Direct View: I don't know - they don't come big enough for me so I don't really look at them much anymore (although I did like the XBR Wega a few years ago). Just go to a store. I'd really avoid a 4:3 (there's a post in this A/V forum right now about someone messing with Avalaunch using one of these - he's less than happy). Buying a 4:3 HDTV right now is a fairly bad move. If I had to go 4:3 I'd likely just buy non-HD and save my money.

Like I said before www.avsforum.com and www.hometheaterspot.com are some good sites to do research on these.

Mr Ed · « **Reply #4 on:** July 09, 2004, 06:48:00 AM »

muell67 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 09, 2004, 03:25:00 PM »

Ok It sounds like 16:9 is the way to go, but I still feel a little uneasy about getting a rear projection tv. I do however want something larger than the 34" direct views.
So what is the best type of rear projection? Which type is less likely to have burn in? or are they all about the same? Im very new to this and I dont fully understand all of the different types of rear projection. I also would prefer a Toshiba If anyone has had a good experience with them and gaming let me know what model.

xerxes3rd · « **Reply #6 on:** July 10, 2004, 03:42:00 AM »

I was unsure about the whoe HD thing too, but I just bought a Hitachi 51S500. It supports the Xbox in 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i. This unit has been discontinued, since next year's models are due out soon. From what I've heard, Hitachi is one of the better-looking brands, and from what my eyes could tell in the store, the UltraVision technology makes a substantial difference. Since I took home the floor model, I think the final price was $1650 or so.

I don't have first-hand experience with burn-in, but as ChrisF mentioned, as long as you change up the static images on the screen, you should be ok.

I also had similar concerns about viewing my 4:3 content on a 16x9 TV.... I found that I prefer to watch the 4x3 TV stretched to 16x9, and it doesn't look bad (IMO). I've also played some older ROMs (NES, Genesis), and they too look fine stretched.

Lastly, XBMC looks awesome in 1080i. =)

[Edit] Correction, XBMC runs in 480p.... but it still looks great.

This post has been edited by xerxes3rd: Jul 10 2004, 02:10 PM

ChrisF · « **Reply #7 on:** July 10, 2004, 06:55:00 AM »

As far as type of rear projection there is DLP, LCD, and CRT. CRT being the oldest technology is the most mature and offers by far the most attractive price and many would argue the best picture quality under reasonable viewing conditions (meaning not direct sunlight on the screen or a showroom lit by flourescents - this makes it almost impossible to compare these sets in any showroom environment). Also with your price limitation you can forget about DLP and LCD which is kind of unfortunate because neither suffers from burn-in. CRT can be burned in but if you set the brightness and contrast correctly (an AVIA or Digital Video Essentials DVD - I can't stress how important this is) and mix up your viewing there is unlikely to be an issue.

So as far as CRT based RPTV HDTVs go the best brands over the years have consistently been Pioneer, Hitachi, and Mitsubishi. Pioneer has stopped making CRT-RPTVs but you can still find them around and get some decent close out deals (Costco had a 65" for $1999 last time I looked). Hitachi and Mits new models are coming out so getting a deal on a 2004 should be easy. I don't think there is anyone out there who really knows this stuff that puts Toshiba in the same class - that said they are good sets and their pricing is getting very attractive. The new 2005 Toshs are supposed to be very low priced. Although you can get a good deal most people should avoid floor models for CRT RPTV. These televisions ship in what's called "torch mode" often with 100% contrast and brightness so they can be better viewed in a bright showroom. This causes a lot of premature aging of the guns and carries burn-in potential. If you know what you are doing (read: you don't) you can examine the set and make a call on it. Most consumers are rolling the dice. So you might get lucky but you might get burned too.

Mits and Pioneer do not accept 720p over the component inputs (1080i/480i/480p only) so for a system like Xbox that has limited power for HD resolutions it manages to pull off 720p sometimes but rarely can manage 1080i. Next generation this won't be a problem and Xbox is the only console this generation where you run into an issue so if you feel that this is important enough to base a display purchase off of you should avoid Pioneer and Mits while looking toward Hitachi and Toshiba. Of course there are whole other issues as I believe both scale all images to 540p or 1080i meaning you don't get native 480p resolution for progressive DVDs. Whatever though, it likely won't be noticable and this is something that only comes up in enthusiast land. As far as other 720p compatibility issues about 99.99% of people have no issues as their settop box or tuner converts everything to 1080i for them. There are a few exotic products that you may run into (Mr. Ed is a fan of the current generation of HD camcorders and there are a few D-VHS units running around but the vast majority are 1080i compatible and the industry is moving towards more compatibility rather than less - plus you are very very unlikely to run into something like this even if you went looking). Basically, for me - I wouldn't avoid a great deal on a Mits or Pioneer and buy a Toshiba or a higher priced Hitachi because of the 720p thing. How important the limited Xbox 720p selection is to you is another matter - there aren't a lot now and there won't be a lot later due to the limits of the console. I can look over the selection and there are few games that even interest me. So do with that info what you will.

xerxes3rd · « **Reply #8 on:** July 10, 2004, 07:13:00 AM »

Hmmm, well, since I got the floor model, perhaps it would be in my best interests to get an extended warranty policy on the unit. I hope it's ok...

[Edit] Just checked the display settings on my TV. The contrast is set to 100% and the brightness is set to 50%. Could these settings be enough to have already damaged the unit?

This post has been edited by xerxes3rd: Jul 10 2004, 03:10 PM

ChrisF · « **Reply #9 on:** July 10, 2004, 12:34:00 PM »

The contrast is the killer more than brightness. 100% is basically torch mode. As long as you aren't seeing any burn-in you are likely okay. Like I said, it is not always a bad deal to buy a floor model CRT based set but it certainly can happen. A lot depends on how long it was on the floor and what they were feeding it (like continuous signal from a channel with a bright icon). 12 months of running 14 hours a day at 100% can take some life off a set - won't cause damage per se though. If you have access to an image that is totally white (or close) it might help you to see if there's an issue with images burned in. I'm sure some techs would mess with the service menu and check each gun indiviually - who knows.

Regardless of that, the Hitachi is a great set. I'd give it a good look over but it will serve you well for years. There is no guarantee that a floor model is a bad thing but there is certainly an increased possibility as running all day every day at 100% isn't exactly normal wear and tear on an item. BTW - extended warranties don't cover burn-in and if it's not there already you are fine. Just take the contrast to 50% and get yourself an AVIA or Digital Video Essentials disc and do the basics to it. You can also check out the tweak threads and forums at www.hometheaterspot.com and www.avsforum.com. You can find a lot of info about doing calibration work and get the most out of your display.

This post has been edited by ChrisF: Jul 10 2004, 07:36 PM

xerxes3rd · « **Reply #10 on:** July 10, 2004, 01:44:00 PM »

Well, as it turns out, the delivery guys put a 1" scratch on the screen... I called up [unnamed store] and they found me a new one that's still in the box, so they're going to replace my current set with the boxed one for free. Now that's a good deal: a brand new one for the price of the floor model. Oh, and I ordered a copy of Digital Video Essentials so I can get the new one tuned before anything happens to it.

muell67: Sorry, I kinda did a little hostile takeover of your thread. I apologize, and we can now return to the discussion at hand. =)

NizZ8 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 11, 2004, 05:37:00 PM »

I love my infocus X1.. it's a great PJ that can be had for very cheap (about 750$). I'm currently enjoying some Discovery HD on myne as i type this!

irfan · « **Reply #12 on:** July 19, 2004, 08:08:00 PM »

Im in a similar boat, debating between a projector or a RPTV ...

keep in mind, not many HDTV channels are out there and even fewer broadcast full time... i know tis will change in the future... but a 61" 4:3 will run less than a 57" 16:9, and in 16:9 mode the viewing size is similar, i believe i jsut measured 56" on my mothers TV... that said, 4:3 programming (MOST of the programming available) will be smaller on the 16:9 tv... also, out Sony 61" that i am using hasnt had a single issue in 4 years, they are pretty durable these days.

Im looking into projectors as well, although my room size will limit the X1 to a 78" screen ( i know, TINY!)... but i think i may check out a benq6200, as this supports XGA resolution so it will be better for HDTV. the X1 has a visible screendoor effect at 80", but i didnt really notice the rainbow effect or get a huge headache, from my experience... i think the 6200 is running for 1169 after rebate which is a good steal... but remember that standard TV will look like crap and new bulbs after 2-3000 hours run abour 3-400bucks. Thats an extra 400dollars every 2.5 years (3hr/day), so over 5 years it will be 1169+800= almost $2,000. add the price of a screen, 200 or so, and ur at $2200, where the RPTV will not cost an extra money.

I think if i find a 65"RPTV for a bargain im gonan jump on that. of course i may move apartments where i could get a screen up to 130" in the future and i already have a 32" mitsubishi i could use for regular viewing....hmmm

apw100 · « **Reply #13 on:** July 20, 2004, 08:50:00 AM »

I have a 57" Hitachi HDTV, and I love it. I have had it for about 1.5 years, and havnt had a problem with burn-in. I keep the brightness at a reasonable level and the contrast below 50%. While regular games look great on it, true HD games look amazing!
If you want something that is bigger than 36" and under $1500, then you will have to get a cheaper brand tv. However, there is a Toshiba(Model: 34HF83 at Best Buy) that is 34" and costs exactly $1500. It also has a DVI input, which will provide the best picture quality possible. However, I'm not sure whether it can accept a 720p signal, so check that out. If it cant, dont buy it.
The best brands for a resonably priced rear-projection set would be Hitachi, Sony and Toshiba. You can probably find a 51" model for around the $1500 mark. Do NOT buy a Mitsubishi! While they make excellent tv's, they cannot accept a 720p signal, which is what virtually all XBOX HD games output as.
I recommend a Hitachi, because they can accept 720p signals, and are known to have one of the best pictures out there

Owtlaw333 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 20, 2004, 07:29:00 PM »

Like everyone has already said, 1500 is tha marker on both features and quality. Anything below most likely won't have DVI. As far as projection TV's, I recommend DLP. Brighter and is supposed to last longer. As for tha rainbow effect, haven't seen it in mine yet (61" RCA DLP). You also have ta take in consideration is tha distance at which you view ur tv. Although DLPs can be viewed a lil close that others, you still need a bit of distance to view it without getting a shadow on tha top and bottom of tha picture. (My couch is about 15-20 feet away from my tv and it looks great, but any closer and you start to notice a little bit of shadow). DLP is Samsungs technology so almost any samsung HDTV you find will have DLP (along with RCA and one other company that I can't think of)
(Sry if any of this was already mentioned

_

Author Topic: Hdtv Recomendations (Read 88 times)