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[mattb]

Are game producers going to start thinking about 1080i? I mean it isn't that popular, surprisingly. Alot of lower to mid level HDTVs dont support 720p, including mine. What is the fate of 1080i game compatibility?

[Dismay]

there are 4  xbox games that support 1080i

[ChrisF]

QUOTE (mattb @ Jun 20 2004, 04:43 AM)

Are game producers going to start thinking about 1080i? I mean it isn't that popular, surprisingly. Alot of lower to mid level HDTVs dont support 720p, including mine. What is the fate of 1080i game compatibility?

It's not that they aren't choosing to support it.  It's that the Xbox lacks the power to push out HD resolutions with any type of consistency.  720p is significantly easier for the machine than 1080i which is why you see a lot more 720p games.  However, many games have pulled planned 720p support at the last minute due to not being able to make it run without a significant performance hit (think GTAVC - I believe ESPN Football pulled it after a 720p demo and the box even says 720p).  Look at Soul Calibur 2, they used artificial black bars to cut down on the amount of graphics just to make 720p run.

Bottom line: if you want HD gaming you are going to have to wait for the next generation of consoles or build youself a home theater PC.

Also it's not that lower to mid level HDTVs don't support 720p.  720p is the default resolution for fixed pixel displays and generally common to DLP/LCD/LCOS/Plasma (720p native while 1080i is downscaled to 720p).  CRT based sets generally opt to display 1080i natively and some upscale a 720p signal.  Almost every source component can scale its output to either 720p or 1080i (1080i being the most common) so many CRT based RPTV manufacturers don't bother to build in automatic scaling of 720p.  The Xbox is one of the very few components that is unable to scale its output (lacks the power).  Two of the brands affected by this are Pioneer and Mitsubishi - arguably the two best high end RPTV display manufacturers (Hitachi is in there too).  So if you happen to have a Pioneer Elite or a Mits Diamond model you are in the same boat and the only time there is a limitation is for Xbox.  Once the next generation is out this won't be an issue anymore and to be honest, take a look at the list of 720p games - I don't really have the feeling I'm missing a whole lot.  If I did I'd just rig up a HTPC which blows the current consoles out of the water as far as graphics and performance.

[Mr Ed]

QUOTE (ChrisF @ Jun 20 2004, 09:02 AM)

Also it's not that lower to mid level HDTVs don't support 720p...Almost every source component can scale its output to either 720p or 1080i (1080i being the most common) so many CRT based RPTV manufacturers don't bother to build in automatic scaling of 720p...Two of the brands affected by this are Pioneer and Mitsubishi - arguably the two best high end RPTV display manufacturers...So if you happen to have a Pioneer Elite or a Mits Diamond model you are in the same boat and the only time there is a limitation is for Xbox.

Actually there are other devices out there than can't scale.  Think, HD camcorders.  Personally I think it's a tragic product flaw, that they left out scaling of 720p to 1080i of these sets.  I almost bought a Diamond series Mitsubishi over a year ago, until I found out it couldn't handle 720p from a computer, from a D-VHS player, from a camcorder, or from my XBOX.

720p and 1080i are equal players in the HDTV specification, so there's no excuse for a TV not supporting them.  It in no way is a fault of the XBOX.  

Yes I'm angry and bitter about manuf. leaving this feature out of their sets.  

[ChrisF]

We've been through the HD camcorder thing.  D-VHS is not 720p exclusive by any stretch of the imagination.  Video card manufacturers are getting much more adept at creating 1080i compatible drivers - there's lots of guys running 1080i (or there about for overscan reasons) HTPCs and doing some incredible gaming.  I forsee more multi-format compatibility than less in the future.  There are enough sets out there that don't scale from the component inputs to warrant it and with most products already offering a choice I'd think we'll only see more.

At the moment there are a minority of people who have an application where this causes a major problem but I'd bet it will resolve itself in the next few years (although for a passionate Xbox player or HD camcorder owner it can certainly be a dealbreaker in the now).  I just don't see 720p exclusive devices dominating the market and reversing the current trend toward complete compatibility.  That being said, I got a killer deal on my set so when 1080p becomes available to the mainstream at reasonable prices, I'll move that way and everything besides a computer will end up being scaled or deinterlaced.

BTW - how is your new display?  You went with the Sony right?  Pictures?

[mattb]

Well, I guess people like me will have better luck in the future. My local cable company just decided to get a cable box with DVI compatibility. SLOWLY!, I see things developing. In 2 years, and this is only a guess, people will look back at this and smile. It's not Xbox's fault, and actually they did too much! Remember that it came out in November of 2001 (Dark ages of HD to me), but it's only system that consistently delivers. I hope Halo 2 and Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas will have 1080i compatibilty. Did anybody hear any rumors? If not, I hope Xbox 2 will broaden 1080i's horizons.

[Mr Ed]

QUOTE (ChrisF @ Jun 20 2004, 03:31 PM)

BTW - how is your new display?  You went with the Sony right?  Pictures?

Yeah yeah,   It's kick ass.  I love it!

I just returned my D-VHS VCR though.  Turns out it wasn't fully compatible with the Sony integrated tuner (surprise).  You could not program the tuner to do unattended recording in HD, which is one of the reasons I got the damn VCR.  Technically it's a fault of the Sony tuner, but I just wasn't 100% happy with the VCR anyway.  Going back to tape was harder than I thought it would be.  Also, all my HD right now is locat OTA broadcasts using an indoor (i.e. cheesy) $30 antenna.  I'm currently submitting a request to the architectural committee of my HOA to get permission to put a real antenna on my roof.  Doubt they will approve it though.  Yes I have cable, but Cox's HD lineup blows hardcore and I'll sign up when they get the Tivo HD set top box so I can record HD and not before.

TV itself is great though!  Love XBOX on it!  Bummed how many games don't support 16x9.  Totaled! being one of my favorite 4 player games.

Yes, I need to post some pictures.  Time, just not enough of it.   When/if I get around to taking some pics, I'll post them here.  

[opjose]

PsiOps does a rather amazing job at pushing 720p w/o any slowdowns.

[ChrisF]

QUOTE (Mr Ed @ Jun 21 2004, 12:44 AM)

Yeah yeah,   It's kick ass.  I love it! I just returned my D-VHS VCR though.  Turns out it wasn't fully compatible with the Sony integrated tuner (surprise).

Glad you like the TV.  Bummer about the VCR compatibility.  Was it the JVC D-VHS?  I've heard people rave about it calling it the best unit at any price bar none.  I think it is the Marantz that is a direct rebadge or something.  Some impressive recomendations at avsforum.  The Comcast offering here is slim too (the Imax films on INHD admittedly are spectacular).  I haven't even considered actively shopping for a recorder

MATTB: As for Halo2 or the next GTA offering 1080i, there is a greater likelyhood of a my ass sprouting wings and flying off without me (basically assume there will be no more 1080i games - if one shows up consider it a bonus and if the game is actually a good one jump for joy).  I'd wager some significant money against 720p too and feel very comfortable.  Rockstar already dropped 720p on the last GTA due to performance issues - the Xbox has not changed since then so they are unlikely to waste even $1 in development time on 720p no less 1080i.  I believe Halo2 may have already confirmed 16:9 and 480p if I'm not mistaken - either way there isn't a person out there not on serious meds expecting it to be in HD.

[eugenile]

i have yet to experience an xbox game at 1080i.. however i have with 720p.. and it is amazing.. i wish all games were at least 720p..