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Author Topic: Unleashx Source  (Read 573 times)

the joker

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Unleashx Source
« on: January 09, 2004, 02:55:00 AM »
This entire thread is bullshit.

If he uses GPL code he can choose to respect it and do as GPL says. Or he can choose not to. That's his business.  Ava doesn't use a single line of GPL'ed software, and STILL people nag that we have to go open source.

Nagging is the highway to burning up people's interests in a free project, and the opensource discussion is there on every SINGLE project without exceptions. Wth is it all about ?  Leave people alone so they can focus on their project(s). If you want people to make code for you - hire them :-)

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freakpie

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« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2004, 09:41:00 AM »
QUOTE (freakpie @ Jan 9 2004, 07:30 PM)
QUOTE (the joker @ Jan 9 2004, 12:55 PM)
If he uses GPL code he can choose to respect it and do as GPL says. Or he can choose not to. That's his business.  Ava doesn't use a single line of GPL'ed software, and STILL people nag that we have to go open source.

Actually is the same as saying that you can pay for your commercial software (abiding, thus, the license, and the law) or you can choose not to. That's your business. wink.gif

MS Windows (the software) specifies in its EULA that you should only install it in one machine, but, you can just ignore this particular clause in the license... One thing is what you can do and other is what you should do.


Obviously the odds of being caught and the consequiences one will face in the two scenarios are completely different... laugh.gif

But what about MPlayer vs Kiss Player; it seems that Kiss is going to release the source of its heav'ly-mplayer-based retail-hardware media player!!!  biggrin.gif
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MissSplitch

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« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2004, 02:49:00 PM »
People in hell want ice water, I'm told.

It would be nice to have the source for random reasons, especially in such a small community as the xbox one is, however I do agree that while a simple request that can easily be responded to with "no" is fine, nagging and complaining when you don't get the code is not.

I've run into a few people who kick and stamp their feet about a few bits of windows-based source that really ended up being nothing, and it is simultaneously annoying and aggrevating. I think the issue with UnleashX and the sudden request for the source is that for some people there are a few minor bugs that they think could be easily solved. I know there's been times when I've used something, lets say an emulator like Kawa-X, and wanted to throttle someone for not making a "None" option on keybinds, per-game controls schemes, or remap controls without restarting the game. But the problem is that no one knows me, I have no sway with anything, so even though I could change it out (well, most likely, perhaps these issues arose out of necessity, which would be something I would no doubt find out instead) I just have to get used to them, and hope someone changes it if there's ever a new version.

C'est la guerre, I suppose.

EDIT: There's also been times when, for example, I'd been writing something over the course of a week, not really going anywhere with it, still just dicking around with what I wanted it to do, and always "working" on it while very lacking in sleep. Giving out the undocumented, mishmash of code that results and either having to explain what is what, or deal with the people who only see the broken state of it, and not the situation that lead to it can be helpful at times when people say "Hey, buddy, just do this here and it'll come up," but many people aren't as forward-thinking; disparaging comments about something you don't devote any real time to can be hurtful none-the-less. I know it's frustrating when, for example, .Net came, and a lot of the conventions changed. If I tossed something out and someone who had been following all of the changes as they occurred, instead of having to relearn bits and pieces started jumping up my ass I would be a bit discouraged from continuing. But we do anyway.

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Pillzburydoofus

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« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2004, 10:22:00 PM »
well said MisssSplitch
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Nailed

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« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2004, 09:35:00 PM »
QUOTE (Pillzburydoofus @ Jan 10 2004, 07:22 AM)
well said MisssSplitch

Well said?  More like rambling.

First, I have yet to see someone nag in this thread.

Second, all developers could stand to learn from positive critisism and ignore negative critisism.  If you lose interest simply due to "disparaging comments," it wasn't worth doing anyway.  There are good reasons for not releasing sourse code, but fear of critisism isn't among them.
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Large Dopant white

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« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2004, 09:35:00 PM »
QUOTE (MissSplitch @ Jan 10 2004, 12:49 AM)
People in hell want ice water, I'm told.

It would be nice to have the source for random reasons, especially in such a small community as the xbox one is, however I do agree that while a simple request that can easily be responded to with "no" is fine, nagging and complaining when you don't get the code is not.

I've run into a few people who kick and stamp their feet about a few bits of windows-based source that really ended up being nothing, and it is simultaneously annoying and aggrevating. I think the issue with UnleashX and the sudden request for the source is that for some people there are a few minor bugs that they think could be easily solved. I know there's been times when I've used something, lets say an emulator like Kawa-X, and wanted to throttle someone for not making a "None" option on keybinds, per-game controls schemes, or remap controls without restarting the game. But the problem is that no one knows me, I have no sway with anything, so even though I could change it out (well, most likely, perhaps these issues arose out of necessity, which would be something I would no doubt find out instead) I just have to get used to them, and hope someone changes it if there's ever a new version.

C'est la guerre, I suppose.

EDIT: There's also been times when, for example, I'd been writing something over the course of a week, not really going anywhere with it, still just dicking around with what I wanted it to do, and always "working" on it while very lacking in sleep. Giving out the undocumented, mishmash of code that results and either having to explain what is what, or deal with the people who only see the broken state of it, and not the situation that lead to it can be helpful at times when people say "Hey, buddy, just do this here and it'll come up," but many people aren't as forward-thinking; disparaging comments about something you don't devote any real time to can be hurtful none-the-less. I know it's frustrating when, for example, .Net came, and a lot of the conventions changed. If I tossed something out and someone who had been following all of the changes as they occurred, instead of having to relearn bits and pieces started jumping up my ass I would be a bit discouraged from continuing. But we do anyway.

You missed the point of the thread. No one is begging or nagging anyone to release the sourcecode of anything. It's more of a debate about the validy of the GPL in light of the XBox's situation (that is, with an illegal, leaked devkit).
I believe you've accidentally followed the rant of one of the more uninformative posters on this thread.
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the joker

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« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2004, 12:14:00 AM »
Quote from: Pillzburydoofus,Jan 10 2004, 07:22 AM
well said MisssSplitch
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Large Dopant white

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« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2004, 08:40:00 PM »
QUOTE (the joker @ Jan 13 2004, 10:14 AM)
GPL on that xbox ?  pffft.  XBOX-Devs owes nothing to to the users, it's just about xbox devs respecting other devs wishes regarding their own sources.

How about potential developers? Or do you think that you need a gold-plated card issued by Ubergeek to be a developer? biggrin.gif
Ever consider that someone might become a developer because of one opensource project or another? Or the afformentioned point that it's nice to see multiple working models of the same goal? You may as well use the "XDK's illegal so the GPL means nothing beatch |00z3R!" argument.
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yourwishismine

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« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2004, 07:28:00 AM »
QUOTE (Nailed @ Jan 17 2004, 11:01 AM)
Got to love how some developers think they are kings among the peons.  Last I checked, a king isn't a king without anyone to rule.

They may THINK they are kings, think what they will, I know for sure that I am not a peon.  How ever, even if they thought they were kings... nothing could be further from the truth.. for in the ages of kings, the people worked to serve the king, not the king working to serve the people..  Don't get me wrong, I highly appreciate the work that the DEVs do.. and I plan to be listed among them some day soon.. (not revealing anything)... I just don't like people to piss on my shoes...  laugh.gif
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Yuyu

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« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2004, 08:31:00 AM »
QUOTE
I agree with that... still since most (not all) of the XBOX developed homebrew apps are built with the xdk, they are all stealing someone elses code.. so get off you lazy bums and share the source, share the knowledge and if someone can take that source and make something better from it, then the whole community benefits...

Well said, wish I would have said it...

QUOTE
Don't get me wrong, I highly appreciate the work that the DEVs do.. I just don't like people to piss on my shoes...
You're a wordsmith in the making huh Bloody  wink.gif

Gotta love the posts....
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geniusalz

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« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2004, 10:10:00 AM »
QUOTE (Large Dopant white @ Jan 15 2004, 01:40 AM)
How about potential developers? Or do you think that you need a gold-plated card issued by Ubergeek to be a developer? biggrin.gif
Ever consider that someone might become a developer because of one opensource project or another? Or the afformentioned point that it's nice to see multiple working models of the same goal?

So true
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HoRnEyDvL

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« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2004, 04:10:00 PM »
smile.gif now not sure if he wants but the code he has given us will be in our sources.
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the joker

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« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2004, 05:32:00 PM »
QUOTE (Nailed @ Jan 17 2004, 05:01 PM)
Got to love how some developers think they are kings among the peons.  Last I checked, a king isn't a king without anyone to rule.

You're misunderstanding what I tried to say. You know what I wish ?   I wish users treated the devs like other users.  That would be a huge upgrade - no requests or demands, No witty people talking shit about you, your friends nor your hard work within research and developement, just sharing the fun. More importantly - if I were a regular user, would you answer in the same manner ?

Just respect the devs. I think they have deserved to not go through the shit I know lots of devs wades through on a daily basis. As it's now - it's really funny how working your ass off can really make someone think you're only trying to get "fame" or recognizion - and thereof they talk shit about/to you. That's my theory anyways. I guess you know better than me why you wrote that.

I don't feel very royal, I earned appx 10.000 usd last year, I drive a car that hardly passes the european laws and I have a 200.000 k USD mortage on the house. Still, I write the programs you use for free.   Now...

Tell me what I ( or picture any other team/developer ), owe you as a user. Not as a "king", but as someone who works hard to put progress into the scene. I think that all devs deserve the right to say that he owes the scene nothing.  Now, start respecting the devs - stop being an ass...maybe you accidentally actually motivate someone to make something.
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Jsmith

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« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2004, 06:00:00 PM »
QUOTE (the joker @ Jan 22 2004, 09:32 PM)
QUOTE (Nailed @ Jan 17 2004, 05:01 PM)
Got to love how some developers think they are kings among the peons.  Last I checked, a king isn't a king without anyone to rule.

You're misunderstanding what I tried to say. You know what I wish ?   I wish users treated the devs like other users.  That would be a huge upgrade - no requests or demands, No witty people talking shit about you, your friends nor your hard work within research and developement, just sharing the fun. More importantly - if I were a regular user, would you answer in the same manner ?

Just respect the devs. I think they have deserved to not go through the shit I know lots of devs wades through on a daily basis. As it's now - it's really funny how working your ass off can really make someone think you're only trying to get "fame" or recognizion - and thereof they talk shit about/to you. That's my theory anyways. I guess you know better than me why you wrote that.

I don't feel very royal, I earned appx 10.000 usd last year, I drive a car that hardly passes the european laws and I have a 200.000 k USD mortage on the house. Still, I write the programs you use for free.   Now...

Tell me what I ( or picture any other team/developer ), owe you as a user. Not as a "king", but as someone who works hard to put progress into the scene. I think that all devs deserve the right to say that he owes the scene nothing.  Now, start respecting the devs - stop being an ass...maybe you accidentally actually motivate someone to make something.

Well Put!!!

It reminds me of when Surreal 64 didn't make the initial release date of Christmas which was told to them back in September.  People freaked out.  They started calling the dev a liar and bashing him, and then demanding the program.  I kept replying that they're not entitled to the program and should be happy they're getting it at all.  They just would respond that he lied because he didn't meet his initial time estimate.

<sigh>

Anyways.....give this thread a rest people.  The only time a dev who has already stated that for the time being the sources won't be released should be harrassed for the sources is if the project has been abandoned and it needs to be updated.  UnleashX has continued to update the program.  There is no reason why it *needs* to go open source now.  It would just complicate things as he'd have to set up a repository and worry about version control, and review other people's code.  

For now it's not neccessary and would probably slow things down.

Having said that....Hydraulix, your statements about OpenSource and Linux are laughable to say the least.  You really need to do *a lot* more research on both OpenSource and Linux before making statements like that because you're way off.
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the joker

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« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2004, 06:02:00 PM »
QUOTE (Large Dopant white @ Jan 15 2004, 06:40 AM)
How about potential developers? Or do you think that you need a gold-plated card issued by Ubergeek to be a developer? biggrin.gif
Ever consider that someone might become a developer because of one opensource project or another? Or the afformentioned point that it's nice to see multiple working models of the same goal? You may as well use the "XDK's illegal so the GPL means nothing beatch |00z3R!" argument.

I know you'd like to play poker where everyone shows you their cards, but that's not how things works. If you were to work at an office free of charge for a month, and you get a 500 usd bill for rent of desk and office space since these things is actual cost for a company. Would you have payed it or told your boss to get real ?
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