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Author Topic: Hdtv Cables  (Read 2587 times)

Wiz

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« on: December 30, 2003, 01:03:00 AM »

smile.gif


Monster and other companies want you to believe that their cables are in some way unique and better than all other cables.
They use arguments such as exotic materials, gold plating to prove their point.

In real life, it is for the most part like putting "go faster stripes" on your car, apart from the cosmetic aspect they doesn't make it go any faster. At best it might look to some like a faster car (when parked)

Simply put, as long as they can make it appear that they know more about cables than anyone else (thats a proven way of making something appear to be true, as a reference just look at human nature when it comes to abstract things like religion, if you have a religion you believe in, only that religion is the correct one. Regardless of what religion it may be)

The facts as far as physics go is that the goal of a cable is to transfer a signal from point A to point B without affecting the signal itself.
In practical terms that means that the cable has to be designed according to what signal it is going to transfer, the distance of the transfer, avoiding to pick up interference etc.

First off - Gold Plating, this is used (or "should" but seldom is) as a means of avoiding corrosion, since the copper used in the actual cable tend to corrode over time.
Golf plating does NOT make it transfer signals any better by being gold, it just keeps the copper from getting worse.
Whether it's 18karat or 24karat gold makes for any practical purpose no difference at all.
Really cheap and bad quality connectors doesn't use gold but some other "less resistant" metal to avoid corrosion.
From a manufacturers view, gold plating is somewhat more expensive than other options, from a customers view, the difference is close to nothing. Much less than say 10cents worth of material.

When you go out looking for a cable, look for one with gold plated connectors. But don't expect it to be something extra, it just helps you avoid buying cables where it is obvious that the manufacturer wanted to save money, by using cheap manufacturing techniques. (since you now know its really not that exotic that companies like Monster will have you belive)

Avoid cables with exotic materials, plain copper is still the best conductor available at a reasonable price. Solid silver and gold are better, but buying a brand spanking new projector costs you less than _solid_ gold/silver cables. So its not a realistic option.
Also avoind cables with a mix of materials, like "contains 2% silver" or some other marketing tricks. Mixing metals cause problems which you want to avoid in cables, but explaining why is a Very technical discussion since it involves pretty advanced physics.

Summing up:
1. Get a cable suited for what signal you want it to handle.
2. Avoid cables like Monster and other "better" (really worse) ones, you are only wasting your money here.
3. Get a cable with goldplated connectors, but dont pay extra for them.
4. Get a cable with copper as a conductor.

If you are a DIYer or have a soldering friend, a cable that works for most video signals and is available world wide at a reasonable price is called "RG59" (different manufacturers make it but ask in an electronics store for it)
Mate this with gold plated, sturdy connectors for you perticular purpose and you Will have a cheap and as good as it gets cable that can be used for quite a distance should you need a long cable.

Cheers!

PS. Sorry about this, but companies ripping people off like monster have been for years now, it really gets to me.
Oh and btw, there are NO scientific facts supporting ANY of monsters arguments. They do make their own arguments "sound" scientific though, which is a completely different thing.
DS.
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CeREaL

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« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2003, 10:48:00 AM »

wink.gif get the vport cable it is stunning quality!
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StreetPreacher

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« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2003, 12:30:00 PM »

QUOTE (ChrisF @ Dec 22 2003, 03:03 AM)
Keep in mind that the Xbox has only a few options - it's not like you can buy whatever cables you want.  You are wedded to a product so it doesn't matter about Monster's reputation - we are comparing the Monster offering against the MS and others (there are no others of consequence if you want quality so we are really comparing the Monster and MS packs).

Can't you just get the HD  pack, and then use whatever cables you want??

That's what I did....

-Sp  <
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DBZRacer

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« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2003, 04:30:00 PM »

QUOTE (ChrisF @ Dec 29 2003, 01:22 PM)
The only thing that makes me wonder is why nearly every other poster notices such a strong difference between the Monster and the stock or upgraded MS pack.  If the difference was really very slight between all the options I can't imagine that every single person would overstate their findings to that degree (basically stock MS and monster comparisons).  From what I gather hdculture and ripcurl both did the exact test you did (ripcurl didn't confirm but I can't imagine he's using the worse connection on his 9' screen so I assume that's what he was saying).

Not sure what to think.  You used avia and have a large screen (I have the 55" of the same model).  Have you tried good graphic games specific to the xbox and not multiplatform (Panzer Dragoon, DOA III, Cromson skies, etc..)?  Not skeptical of your findings but according to a lot of people on this thread and others there should be a major difference in the MonsterCables both between stock MS and upgraded MS.

OK... I recalibrated my set using Avia via the xbox dvd player patched for 480p with a few minor "by the eye" tweaks. Here are the current specs.

Component input 1: MS HD Pack with RCA component cables specd via Avia
Component input 2: Monster 400x specd via Avia

DVDs used: LOTR - Two Towers Extended Edition, Matrix Reloaded, Finding Nemo
XBOX Games: DOA III, DOA Volleyball, Crimson Skies, LOTR - ROTK, Prince of Persia, Halo and a few other games

So right out of the get go, I did notice SOME improvement. Colors appeared to be a little richer with the Monster and slightly sharper. Being on a 65" screen, the extra $50 investment for both the 400x and optical adapter may be worth it.

When playing DVD movies, I did not notice much of a difference in clarity but did notice that colors were a bit more vibrant over the MS Pack. When playing XBOX games, color again was also a bit better over the MS pack and I did notice a little more clarity on edges. All of this was done in a a very dark room. Overall, I was happy enough investing $70 for the Monster 400x and 100x optical cable vs $35 for the MS Pack and your own optical cable.

BUT, here is the BUT. I compared again during the day where the room was very well lit from the open window and was very disappointed to see that all that color and difference that I had seen during the night was washed out. I was not able to see the improvement as much as I had wanted to. Maybe it is just my set. But it was very  close to the original comparison I had done when I first got the cables. I am still in the tweaking stage for my set where I now may want to tackle some focus settings.

Overall I am still not completely convinced that the Monster 400x cables gives you a HUGE comparable upgraded picture against the MS Pack. I have to admit that the Monster Cable DOES IMPROVE THE PICTURE QUALITY over the MS Pack but not overwhelmingly. If you have a higher end HDTV set, the Monster Cable would probably still be your best choice given the fact that there are only 2 good solid options out there right now for HD cable choices for the XBOX. After finally being able to compare both the MS HD Pack and the Monster 400x HD Pack personally, I would now probably choose the Monster HD Pack now for my set for the following reasons.

- The Monster 400x HD Cables for the XBOX defintely appear to be better insulated. The cables are sturdy and the connectors fit firmly around the input plugs for the TV.

- The Monster Cable 400x pack is one continuous unit without any interruptions for video. It is an all in one package the directly connects the back of your xbox directly to the back of your HDTV set. With the MS HD Pack, it is a 2 piece set where a controller/breakout type box connects to the back of the xbox and then component cables must plug into the back of this box to finish the connection to the TV. I think that this is where the MS Pack has its largest weakness. Not only does it come with cheaper thin cables but this 'extra' connection/step along the way to the HDTV set may be enough to impact your video quality.

- I did notice a 'difference' with the Monster cables vs MS HD Pack, although not overwhelming, it was noticable enough for me to upgrade.

For those that never even tried to Monster Cables before, I would highly suggest giving it a shot first before shooting it down completely. A couple reasons for the test alone is this. There is a proprietory connection in the back of the xbox. It is this connection that limits your choice to Monster and MS only (not including the other cheap alternatives out there as we all know they suck). If there were other options which followed Monsters design which was one continous cable from the back of the xbox directly to the back of the the HDTV set with very well insulated component cables, then those would be worthy to challenge monster. But given the fact that THERE ARE NO OTHER OPTIONS OUT THERE, Monster appears to be your best choice for higher end HDTV sets. Hope this all helps everyone. I'll keep on testing on my end and see what else I can dig up...  <
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DBZRacer

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« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2003, 04:34:00 PM »

Also to add the prices once again for the final comparison:

MS Option:
MS HD Pack - $20
Optical Cable - $15
Upgraded Component Cables - $15
Total - $50

Monster Option
Monster 400x - $40
Monster 100x Optical Cable and adapter - $30
Total $70

So the final difference is only $20 or so...  <
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ChrisF

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« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2003, 11:15:00 PM »

DBZRacer - thank you so much for going through all of the testing and taking the time to share your results.  I'm of the mind that this is pretty conclusive.  Your post was great and your methodology was very meticulous.

Regarding daylight washout, RPTV technology is sensitive to ambient light.  To get the absolute best picture and viewing you have to control for that (sort of like having to sit at a reasonable viewing angle).  Still, there isn't anything out there on the consumer level that can match the picture of a properly calibrated RPTV.  A lot of Mits owners remove the glare screen.  If you haven't been to www.hometheaterspot.com they have an awesome Mits forum and a tweak section for paid members (service manual settings and calibration tutorials).  Although from your posts I'm betting you are already a member (I am ChrisF there too).

Anyway, I'll be linking your post in my signature as a cable review.  I don't think there is any way to improve upon what we have here and your very complete testing and review.

Thanks again!  Enjoy your cables - you deserve it.

This post has been edited by ChrisF: Jan 1 2004, 08:00 AM <
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pocketboi#1

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« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2003, 11:47:00 PM »

right now i have my xbox hook up to 60 inch flat inch screen, and will soon be getting monster cables and will see the diffrence by then  :)   <
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DBZRacer

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« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2004, 11:54:00 AM »

Thanks ChrisF. It was more of a peice of mind comparison as well for my own sanity as investing on my first HDTV set would naturally make me want to get the best possible picture out of it. I'll be a paid member at the Spot soon when I can find some time and can finalize the final layout of the living room... Then the tweaks are on!  :lol:   <
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Jalan

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« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2004, 08:00:00 PM »

QUOTE
Also avoind cables with a mix of materials, like "contains 2% silver" or some other marketing tricks. Mixing metals cause problems which you want to avoid in cables, but explaining why is a Very technical discussion since it involves pretty advanced physics.


2% silver won't do much, but if your copper cable is silver coated that is VERY good. And is very much worth the ~$150+ cost on speaker wiring.  <
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DuDeR MaN

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« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2004, 09:39:00 PM »

thank you dbzracer and chrisf for giving so much information on the subject and all.  <
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spillage

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« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2004, 01:40:00 PM »

You guys ought to be thankful you have access to 480p,720p and 1080i in the first place let alone for TV broadcasts. In the UK we suffer 576i YES i. Buy what you believe works. :beer:   <
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aut0psy

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« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2004, 10:09:00 AM »

What I want to ask is what the difference in comparion for picture quality was from going from the standard AV plugs to the Component Video for HD sets, was there an AMAZING difference in resolution, or somewhat of a difference etc...?

I plan on picking up a new AV pack this week, just tossing up which one, seeing as how I have about $15K or so worth of Home Theater, I will more than likely pick up the "Monster" pack.

I Would really like to know the difference from OEM cable to the HDTV quality.

Thanks a lot
 <
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DBZRacer

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« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2004, 12:05:00 PM »

QUOTE (aut0psy @ Jan 5 2004, 10:58 AM)
What I want to ask is what the difference in comparion for picture quality was from going from the standard AV plugs to the Component Video for HD sets, was there an AMAZING difference in resolution, or somewhat of a difference etc...?

I plan on picking up a new AV pack this week, just tossing up which one, seeing as how I have about $15K or so worth of Home Theater, I will more than likely pick up the "Monster" pack.

I Would really like to know the difference from OEM cable to the HDTV quality.

Thanks a lot

I just replied to your PM so here is a copy and paste of it:

Moving from the standard composite AV plugs to the MS HD Component plugs was a HUGE difference on my old Toshiba SD RPT. And when I bought my HDTV set, the MS HD Pack worked wonders since I was then able to play games via 480p and 1080i. I actually compared the Standard AV plug just for the kicks of it to the MS HD pack and it was trully night and day on the Mits.

If you have a regular TV that only supports component in via 480i, defintely go with MS HD Pack as I doubt you will see the difference with the Monster. But if you have a larger higher end HDTV set that can support 480p, 720p, or 1080i, then defintely go with the Monster pack to get the best out of your set.  <
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miklos

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« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2004, 07:39:00 AM »

I was very excited to read all the positive comments about the Monster Cable connection.

I used to have a Madcatz HD pack - which was crap. I got the MS HD pack which is really great.

( I use my XBOX with an X1 projector - on an 84" screen. A 16 foot long Monster THX component cable goes from the Xbox to the X1).

I went to get the Monster HD Cable - and I started testing.

I tried DVD's and a range of games.... and maybe it is just me, and my family .... but there was no difference at all in picture quality!

So the Monster Cable goes back to the store!

Has anyone experienced the same with the X1?

Thanks,

Miklos
 <
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DuDeR MaN

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« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2004, 06:52:00 AM »

84"???  dear god thats got to be a great gaming experience.
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