Print

[quall]

QUOTE(Foe-hammer @ Dec 12 2006, 07:43 PM)

Not good enough?  Damn right it is not good enough when you have the xbox 1 outperforming the mighty ps3 in emulators on the get go.  That should tell you something.  

That more is known about the hardware and porting isn't as hard as it is the PS3?

The PS3 has been out for like 2 or 3 weeks, and you are complaining that the snes emulator isn't running with full plugin support? If you think that the PS3 cannot handle the snes emulation, then you must be pretty dense or a REALLY big fanboy. The hardware is new, that is the reason.

This post has been edited by quall: Dec 13 2006, 01:14 PM

[Dirvance]

QUOTE(quall @ Dec 13 2006, 06:44 AM)

That more is known about the hardware and porting isn't as hard as it is the PS3?

The PS3 has been out for like 2 or 3 weeks, and you are complaining that the snes emulator isn't running with full plugin support? If you think that the PS3 cannot handle the snes emulation, then you must be pretty dense or a REALLY big fanboy. The hardware is new, that is the reason.

Wooo there guy! Don't you go making sense round here....we don't take kindly to you cityslickers and your "common sense" and "rational opinions". Now you either join us in the "piss on Sony" way or you get from round here...go on git!

Good way to put it though...i understand it perfectly...with a little time and love it will get better (like XBMC does every T3CH build ).

[dvsone]

I agree with foe. Here are the system requirements for Snes9x.

System Requirements:

    - 200MHz processor (500MHz recommended)
    - 32MB of RAM (64MB recommended)
    - 3D graphics accelerator required (nVidia GeForce 2 or equivalent recommended)

Most piece of crap PC's should be able to run it at full speed.

[Foe-hammer]

Exactly.  I'm so tired of the, “the system is so powerful, advanced, and therefore so hard to program for...thereby that is the reason homebrew games and ps3 games in general look/run like shit.” Is that you fanboys only defense?

Again, for those that are mentally impaired, the reason that this is unexceptable is because sony has touted the ps3 linux as being just as good as homebrew at a hardware lvl (modded console) would be.  Which is completely untrue.  The simple fact it cannot even currently run a weak snes emulator, whereas when the xbox was modded, snes9x came out within the first month and with the very first version it ran perfectly with no slowdowns or sound glitching.  Later 720p support and graphic filters were added.  

For you guys to argue that the ps3 linux is just as good as a modded console is at running homebrew, because that is exactly what you are doing, speaks volumes about your fanaticism with sony.

[quall]

Maybe Sony will allow 3d hardware acceleration in the future. I guess I do see what you mean.

While the PS3 was touted for homebrew, you can't even use the desired features of its video card. I didn't know that until I read the thread a couple threads down.

You are stuck with crappy software rendering. That isn't even close to what they promised.

[Hopeful]

QUOTE(quall @ Dec 14 2006, 05:14 PM)

Maybe Sony will allow 3d hardware acceleration in the future. I guess I do see what you mean.

While the PS3 was touted for homebrew, you can't even use the desired features of its video card. I didn't know that until I read the thread a couple threads down.

You are stuck with crappy software rendering. That isn't even close to what they promised.

HEYYYYYYYYY we're gonna give you guys A HOMEBREW PLATFORM out of the box!  

*whisper*...But turn off ALL the graphics hardware while you run it.

"Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaay, I can use 5 PERCENT of my PS3's power, for HOMEBREW!"

"Next gen, with your multi 3.2 Ghz cores, 256 bit graphics and 512mb ram... Are you ready to be used for pong, word processors and 15 year old half-speed SNES emu?!"


*******

The kicker is, if we could use the PS3's actual power on the homebrew OS, people would be a lot less ENCOURAGED to hack it for piracy.
-Imagine the uber filters and features that full-speed SNES/PS1/N64/ emulators could have and still run far beyond full speed.
-Imagine homebrew media players upscaling 480i movies flawlessly to 1080p.
-Imagine playing the LASTEST and most graphic intensive arcade games in m.a.m.e. FLAWLESSLY.
It makes you salivate.

Many brilliant otherwise "hacker" programmers would be far too entertained with those possibilities to be trying to hack it like they are now...

Besides, if they just used a different form of encryption for OS mode than GAME mode ...Wouldn't that pretty much lock OS mode out of piracy anyway?

If there's a flaw in that, what about a whole other bios on a whole other chip with completely different encryption for OS-mode... or even different languages for each mode? Wouldn't there be some simple way to COMPLETELY seperate OS-mode from the encryption/routines used for games... Putting it in a dimension where it couldn't even INTERFACE with the game routines, much less be used for hacking, without locking out graphics power?

[Jnadke]

QUOTE(Foe-hammer @ Dec 12 2006, 06:43 PM)

Not good enough?  Damn right it is not good enough when you have the xbox 1 outperforming the mighty ps3 in emulators on the get go.  That should tell you something.  I'd be saying the samething if the 360 were performing emulation is the same pethetic manner as the ps3.

Holy shit dude you are retarded.

1.  The XBOX doesn't run Snes9x.  It runs xSnes9x.  This it totally different, it required many changes to get it working on the XBOX.  xSnes9x is a different program.

2.  This is huge.  I do embedded Linux development and have been closely tracking the addition of the Cell architecture to Linux.  Once the base hardware working, almost any app will work.  It looks like the sound driver might not working the best, probably needs a newer Linux kernel.

3.  You don't need access to the 3D core to do many things, only a fast processor which the Cell offers.

4.  XBOX didn't have jack shit for programs until 3 YEARS after its release.  This is one month.  I'd call it an accomplishment.

It's only a matter of time before someone gets Myth TV working, and works on providing support for the controller.  Then we'll have a XBMC-style UI with built-in emulator support, video support, music support, and possibly even TV tuner support.

Then just package the setup in bootable DVD form, and you have a LEGAL, easier to use media center.

Lastly, if you're unfamiliar with Myth TV, keep in mind the creators of XBMC moved over to developing a version for Linux with TV tuner support (XBMC is developed by other people now).  There's also Freevo, which is another Media Center.

In short, the Linux Media Centers have FAR MORE developers than Xbox Media Center, and use newer versions of their programs.  You can expect far better media support.



For now, though, I'll stick with XBMC on my Xbox.

This post has been edited by Jnadke: Dec 19 2006, 03:01 AM

[Foe-hammer]

QUOTE(Jnadke @ Dec 18 2006, 06:26 PM)

Holy shit dude you are retarded.

1.  The XBOX doesn't run Snes9x.  It runs xSnes9x.  This it totally different, it required many changes to get it working on the XBOX.  xSnes9x is a different program.

2.  This is huge.  I do embedded Linux development and have been closely tracking the addition of the Cell architecture to Linux.  Once the base hardware working, almost any app will work.  It looks like the sound driver might not working the best, probably needs a newer Linux kernel.

3.  You don't need access to the 3D core to do many things, only a fast processor which the Cell offers.

4.  XBOX didn't have jack shit for programs until 3 YEARS after its release.  This is one month.  I'd call it an accomplishment.

It's only a matter of time before someone gets Myth TV working, and works on providing support for the controller.  Then we'll have a XBMC-style UI with built-in emulator support, video support, music support, and possibly even TV tuner support.

Then just package the setup in bootable DVD form, and you have a LEGAL, easier to use media center.

Lastly, if you're unfamiliar with Myth TV, keep in mind the creators of XBMC moved over to developing a version for Linux with TV tuner support (XBMC is developed by other people now).  There's also Freevo, which is another Media Center.

In short, the Linux Media Centers have FAR MORE developers than Xbox Media Center, and use newer versions of their programs.  You can expect far better media support.
For now, though, I'll stick with XBMC on my Xbox.

  I'll refrain from using having to use insults, unlike you, and just point out that was sony fanatasicm at its finest.  Funny how they get their panties in such a bunch.

1) Thanks for pointing out the obvious about it being xsnes9x.  You say it is "totally different"?  Are you nuts?  Why don't you talk to 'Lantus' the member here who ported it and tell him that.  The differences in code is minimal, considering both are C++ and the xbox has 3 times as much CPU speed and twice as much RAM as the recommended specs for snes9x, and had pretty much ‘off the shelf’ pc part in it.  Besides that, Xsnes9x (is that better?) ran at full speed, controller support, and no sound glitches on its very first version.  And xsnes9x came out within the first few months after the xbox was modded; july of 2002. http://dextrose.com/...php/t-8081.html

2) Yes, huge to those who don't know shit about homebrew.

3) The cell is a fast 'in-order', stripped down processor compared to regular PC CPU's.  Comparatively speaking, it sucks for emulators.

4) "XBOX didn't have jack shit for programs until 3 YEARS after its release"   Now i know you're ignorant.  You obviously don't know a damn thing about xbox homebrew or are just spewing shit out your mouth.  95% of what we now have on the xbox was already present 3 yrs after the xbox's release.  The very first Mod-chip created for the Xbox came out 6 months after the system's launch, and was the Xtender (May 2002). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modchip.  A FULLY FUNCTIONAL, FULL SPEED, and NO SOUND GLITCHING snes emulator came out 2 months later.  And not only that, there was already homebrew programs made for the xbox before the modchip came out; people had xbox sdk's and had homebrew applications running and ready to use once the system was modded.

The ps3 linux suck for homebrew compared to a fully modified console.  Except it.

And next time try and not talk/type out your ass.

[lantus]

QUOTE(Jnadke @ Dec 19 2006, 01:26 AM)

Holy shit dude you are retarded.

1.  The XBOX doesn't run Snes9x.  It runs xSnes9x.  This it totally different, it required many changes to get it working on the XBOX.  xSnes9x is a different program.

Someone made me aware of this thread so here is my 2c.

Considering both a PC and Xbox1 are x86 architectures, there were very minimal changes involved at all. I would estimate about 95% of the source code was left untouched and the remainder was to made it console friendly (DirectX, UI screens, controller support etc).

FYI Snes9x has both an ASM core and a C/C++ core. The early days of xSnes9x development was using the C/C++ core but IIRC after beta 4 or so i switched to the ASM core.  The only reason why I switched to the ASM core was because the optimizing compiler on the XDK caused some grief with some games, especially when it came to floating point math (check out Mario Kart on the early betas for instance heh). Speed was always rock solid at 50/60fps depending on the region. Only when some of the more CPU intensive filters were added did it begin to slow down some - but we have zSnesXbox for that anyway.

To further illustrate Foe-Hammers point, i remember many times where i compiled Snes9x on win32 and linked THOSE object files to my xbox specific ones and everything worked without a hitch.

hope this clears this up for you

[Foe-hammer]

Thanks Lantus for the info. and clarification.

Lantus is held in high regards here on emulators for the xbox, and was one of the pioneering devs who brought many emulator ports and games over to the xbox.

I also wanted to clarify that porting of any kind is not a simple process, and do not want to down play the much time and effort that Lantus put into xsnes9x and his other ports, because they are truly exceptional; both in performance and user friendliness.  Many thanks goes to Lantus on the excellent job he did with xsnes9x, and the other ports he has done.

[darkstalker]

There's a damn good reason for the PS3 version to be running slow - X is running without any acceleration (2D or 3D) whatsoever. It's the same thing you would get if you ran X on a Pentium 4 without acceleration, so it's completely understandable.

The reason why the Xbox emulators run so much better is because they have full access to the graphics card and use the stolen Xbox XDK. Even though it's only minor, the Xbox is also not running a full OS at the same time as the emulator, though that's a minimal drain. I'm pretty sure that if you attempted to run an emulator under OpenXDK, you would also be disappointed right now.

Once Sony figures out a way to allow us to have graphical acceleration without opening up the PS3 to hacking attempts (the real reason why we don't have homebrew allowed on the PSP), we'll see SNES9x run circles around the Xbox version. Yes, it doesn't have a GUI... on Linux, you are expected to know how to use a command line.

So for those of you wanting everything to run super fast and want a nice little GUI on top of it, stick with your Xboxes for now (as I will be until I get a PS3).

Sony never claimed we would have homebrew with full acceleration and all that. They only claimed that we would be able to program our own stuff for it, so Foe-Hammer, wherever you saw that claim from Sony, I'd like a link to it.

To finalize, yes, things are on the slow side right now. Give it time. Remember, the Xbox wasn't hacked on day one and the good stuff didn't start appearing until at least a few months later.

[ashlar42]

QUOTE(darkstalker @ Jan 10 2007, 07:46 PM)

Sony never claimed we would have homebrew with full acceleration and all that. They only claimed that we would be able to program our own stuff for it, so Foe-Hammer, wherever you saw that claim from Sony, I'd like a link to it.

No link is needed, Kutaragi repeatedly stated that PS3 was a full fledged computer, capable of running different OSes.
Nowadays, a full fledged computer has full access to its graphics card. Simple as that.
This is a severely constrained sandbox you are given rights to play into.
Plain and, again, simple.

[darkstalker]

QUOTE(ashlar42 @ Jan 14 2007, 04:45 PM)

No link is needed, Kutaragi repeatedly stated that PS3 was a full fledged computer, capable of running different OSes.
Nowadays, a full fledged computer has full access to its graphics card. Simple as that.
This is a severely constrained sandbox you are given rights to play into.
Plain and, again, simple.

I still want the link.

[PuddWakkr]

QUOTE

Ken Kutaragi has now once again commented on how he views the launch of the PS3 and what the PS3 really is, though am starting to suspect that even Sony doesn’t know what the PS3 is about anymore. Speaking in an interview with Electronic Engineering Times Asia, Ken Kutaragi said of the PlayStation 3, “Though sold as a game console, what will in fact enter the home is a Cell-based computer.”

And your link of Kutaragi calling said PS3 a computer ... link

[darkstalker]

QUOTE(PuddWakkr @ Jan 15 2007, 09:39 AM)

And your link of Kutaragi calling said PS3 a computer ... link

Not the link I'm talking about. I want to see a link where they promised that we'd have full graphical acceleration.