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[Kira Yamoto]

But notice that the part where it says that, is 2 starred at HDMI and nowhere, does it talk about Component cables.  This relates specifically to HDMI only.  You also *assumed* that it was gonna come with composite cables, which nowhere in the specifications, does it say it does.  I think that you either read this mistakenly, or looking for things to jab since everything else has been done and talked about to death. You always love a Sony bashing, correct?

[thax]

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Sep 12 2006, 02:28 AM)

But notice that the part where it says that, is 2 starred at HDMI and nowhere, does it talk about Component cables.  This relates specifically to HDMI only.

Actually you are wrong, if you look it applies to "screen size" on both consoles in addition to the HDMI reference. This means that some screen sizes cannot be achieved without buying HD cables.

QUOTE

You also *assumed* that it was gonna come with composite cables, which nowhere in the specifications, does it say it does.

You are correct, I guess they could bundle RF (Coaxial), S-video or no cables at all, however I don't think that Sony will choose any of those options.

[Kira Yamoto]

QUOTE

Actually you are wrong, if you look it applies to "screen size" on both consoles in addition to the HDMI reference. This means that some screen sizes cannot be achieved without buying HD cables.

 

http://img201.images...6513/ps3tc2.jpg

I understand where you are going about the screen sizes.  Whoever made this website did it wrong, and included false information about the 2nd console.  Basically it was a 'cut and paste' job, they just took out the references for the features that the 2nd console doesn't feature, but didn't take out the 1080p for the below. (notice the red for the above, and the white for the below)

Most people who know about this technology already know that 1080p cannot be achieved on component cable so just seeing that right there is a clear mistake on the web designer's part.  It still only relates to HDMI, just like I said, because of the fact that 1080p on PS3 cannot be displayed any other way other than HDMI.  Therefore, its an HDMI reference, for an HDMI feature, on a AV MULTI OUT section where it shouldn't have been.  It's pretty clear it's a cut and paste job.

[Kira Yamoto]

check PM nick

[Deftech]

[Foe-hammer]

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Sep 11 2006, 08:51 PM)

Most people who know about this technology already know that 1080p cannot be achieved on component cable so just seeing that right there is a clear mistake on the web designer's part.  It still only relates to HDMI, just like I said, because of the fact that 1080p on PS3 cannot be displayed any other way other than HDMI.  Therefore, its an HDMI reference, for an HDMI feature, on a AV MULTI OUT section where it shouldn't have been.  It's pretty clear it's a cut and paste job.

Um, no.  Component can support 1080p, as long as the HDTV allows 1080p through component.  My bro's 37" westinghouse LCD HDTV allows component 1080p.

[Kira Yamoto]

QUOTE(Foe-hammer @ Sep 12 2006, 05:55 AM)

Um, no.  Component can support 1080p, as long as the HDTV allows 1080p through component.  My bro's 37" westinghouse LCD HDTV allows component 1080p.

I was told otherwise but eh, ok.  I didn't know that.  1080p technology is so new that knowledge about it is pretty rare.  Same with 1080p content.  In most of the new HDTV models I've seen, 1080p was only compatiable through HDMI, like this http://www.samsung.c...=Specifications

That's the TV im getting, but I don't mind that it can't do 1080p over component, as I can just get a 600 model that has HDMI.

[Martinchris23]

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Sep 12 2006, 05:48 AM)

I was told otherwise but eh, ok.  I didn't know that.  1080p technology is so new that knowledge about it is pretty rare.  Same with 1080p content.  In most of the new HDTV models I've seen, 1080p was only compatiable through HDMI, like this http://www.samsung.c...=Specifications

That's the TV im getting, but I don't mind that it can't do 1080p over component, as I can just get a 600 model that has HDMI.

I think this is where you've gotten confused - this TV doesn't support 1080p.

Taken from the PDF:

QUOTE

TV/Video
• HD-grade 1366(H) x 768(V) pixel resolution
• Widescreen aspect ratio
• 5000:1 dynamic contrast ratio
• S-PVA panel
• 178º(H)/178º(V) viewing angle
• CCFL – Cold Cathode Fluorescent Lamp
(92% NTSC color gamut)
• 10-bit processor with 12.8 billion colors
• Built-in digital tuner (ATSC)
• Fast 8ms response time
• New optimized game mode
• Swivel stand
Audio
• “Hidden” bottom speakers
• SRS TruSurround XT™
• Watts per channel: 10W x 2
Connections
• 2 HDMI – High Definition Multimedia Interface
• Component video input (Y,Pb,Pr)
(480i/480p/720p/1080i)
• S-video and composite video inputs
• Side A/V inputs
• PC (RGB) input
• VESA® compatible

There's no mention of 1080p as well as the fact it couldn't do it since it's only a standard panel of 1366 x 768.

I would read the video output statement from the PS3 spec sheet as no HD-compatible cables are supplied whatsoever and as HD resolutions start at 720p, this would cover component and HDMI. I hope I'm wrong, but this is how it reads....

[Kira Yamoto]

QUOTE(Martinchris23 @ Sep 12 2006, 07:53 AM)

I think this is where you've gotten confused - this TV doesn't support 1080p.

Taken from the PDF:
There's no mention of 1080p as well as the fact it couldn't do it since it's only a standard panel of 1366 x 768.

I would read the video output statement from the PS3 spec sheet as no HD-compatible cables are supplied whatsoever and as HD resolutions start at 720p, this would cover component and HDMI. I hope I'm wrong, but this is how it reads....

No, I didn't get confused.  Many other TV's like it share similar specs and mostly all of them that do support 1080p, supports it through HDMI, not Component.  It's only now that models like Westinghouse are offering 1080p through component and even THAT is undocumented as I read in a review.

Btw, most, if not all HDTV's have their specifications as 1366x768, that's standard for LCD's.  I don't know exactly why (maybe it's the TV's naitive resolution), but they still display 1920x1080 just fine.  Heck even my dad's new 600 dollar Insignia was specced as 1366x768 but there it was, 1920x1080i running from an HD program on TV.  Besides, even if the panel's pixels aren't a standard 1920x1080, it COULD mean that it's able to output 1920x1080p resolution.  It's just a video mode after all.  You're just not gonna get the benefits of having 1080p native.

edit: looks like what I was saying earlier has some merit after all.
http:// tinyurl dot com / qtult

About that TV though, yes it does support 1080p.  It supports 1080p through HDMI only, don't look at the PDF, look at the specifications below when it takes you to that page.  Not all of their 32's have 1080p, so when it says it does, it does it.

If it all comes down to it though, I'll email Sony and see what we get as an answer.  I'm pretty sure its only HDMI that we're not getting.  I'm also pretty sure the way I read it only pertains to HDMI and not componet.   Yes, part of that line that describes the video modes is true, but nowhere does it state WHICH cables come seperately.  We know that HDMI won't be included, so that's out of the picture.  That little line doesn't give me enough that says component won't be in any of the packages.  

Component should be standard on at least the 600.  There's no way that we're getting a PS3 that can do HD and not get the most basic cable that displays it.  No fricken way.

[Kira Yamoto]

Btw, someone made an excellent post at Gizmondo that I would like to share.
http://www.gizmodo.c...able-198269.php

QUOTE

And it's not going to ship with an LCD TV either. Big deal.

Inkjet printers have been shipping without a USB (or FirewWire, depending) cable forever and they can't be used without them.

Let's use your $5 figure here and assume it's a correct cost for a cable (it's not) and the reports that Sony will ship 2 million units are correct. Even if 60% of the PS3 users have HDTV (they don't) that can take HDMI connections, 40% won't be able to take advantage of HDMI. That's nearly 1 million wasted cables. At $5 that's $5m for nothing.

If you spend $2000+ on your TV, $800+ on your receiver and $600 on your PS3, you can spend your own $5 on a cable.

[Kira Yamoto]

Okay, I'm sure now.  I'm sure that the picture I posted proves that they were only talking about HDMI and not component and here's why.

1. Stars were marked with 1080p only.  If component cables were of topic, then they would have been marked along with 1080p.
2. It clearly states that HDMI cables are not included.  It does not mention that component cables aren't included.  This falls in line with what I said earlier about this specific entry noted for HDMI connection ONLY.
3. Explains that Copy Protected discs cannot be played back in 1080p w/o HDMI connection that is up to HDCP standards.  That also falls in line w/ the entry specifically for HDMI as it's double starred for 1080p.

Let me rephrase the article and it will start to sound a lot more sensible.

QUOTE

1080p video output in HD requres HDMI cables and an HD-compatiable display, both sold seperately. Copy-protected Blu-ray video discs can only output at 1080p using an HDMI cable connected to a device that is compatiable with the HDCP standard. HDMI cable not included. Additional equipment may be required to use the HDMI connector.

Does this not fall in line w/ the ** stars marked for 1080p, and that the entire entry talks about HDMI, and not component?  This never talked about component video modes because the stars were marked for 1080p, not 480i, not 720p, and so on.  Ergo this only applies to 1080p and HDMI.  

1080p over component is not mentioned (but listed as supported) because they explicitly explained that 1080p output of BluRay movies require an HDMI connection.

[Martinchris23]

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Sep 12 2006, 08:34 AM)

Btw, most, if not all HDTV's have their specifications as 1366x768, that's standard for LCD's.  I don't know exactly why (maybe it's the TV's naitive resolution), but they still display 1920x1080 just fine.

It's called INTERLACING. You may need to read about the differences between INTERLACED and PROGRESSIVE as this statement and those made after it suggests you really don't know what you're talking about.

QUOTE

Heck even my dad's new 600 dollar Insignia was specced as 1366x768 but there it was, 1920x1080i running from an HD program on TV.

See above RE: Interlaced mode.

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Besides, even if the panel's pixels aren't a standard 1920x1080, it COULD mean that it's able to output 1920x1080p resolution.  It's just a video mode after all.  You're just not gonna get the benefits of having 1080p native.

NO it can't and this is the point.

a 1080i signal works by interlacing the frames. An LCD panel of 1366 x 768 can NOT output 1080p as there are not enough pixels. If you don't believe me, check the wikipedia as it looks like you need educating on HD formats.

QUOTE

About that TV though, yes it does support 1080p.  It supports 1080p through HDMI only, don't look at the PDF, look at the specifications below when it takes you to that page.  Not all of their 32's have 1080p, so when it says it does, it does it.

So you're telling me to ignore the PDF datasheet that Samsung carefully wrote (probably to ISO 9001/9002 standard) over the favour of the website. Did you ever think that the website could contain a typo?

It may accept a 1080p input (which I will reiterate isn't mentioned in the industry standard datasheet), but this doesn't mean it will output at the same resolution and frames!

QUOTE

Component should be standard on at least the 600.  There's no way that we're getting a PS3 that can do HD and not get the most basic cable that displays it.  No fricken way.

Why not - is there a Sony clause that states this? They will do whatever they can to keep the costs down. If it means only shipping a multi AV with composite then this is what they'll do.

EDIT: Read this: http://reviews.cnet....-6361600-1.html

[KAGE360]

just because a TV "supports" 1080p does not mean it displays at 1080p.  my 1080i TV "supports" all forms of HD resolutions but it does not mean it displays anything other then 1080i.

in regards to thax's theory, i do believe he is correct and i have posted a quote in the HDMI thread to support this....

QUOTE

The price of Sony's upcoming PlayStation 3 has been the subject of much debate. The system will come in $499 and $599 packages, the latter including a larger hard drive, built-in wireless network capabilities, and an HDMI port. However, according to Sony's own official PS3 Web site,  the system won't come with the cables necessary to carry an HDMI signal, or any high-definition signal, for that matter.

According to the double-asterisked bit of small print on the page, "Video output in HD requires cables and an HD-compatible display, both sold separately. Copy-protected Blu-ray video discs can only output at 1080p using an HDMI cable connected to a device that is compatible with the HDCP standard. HDMI cable not included. Additional equipment may be required to use the HDMI connector."

HDMI is a video/audio interface that allows high-def content to be displayed in uncompressed form over a single cable. It also supports High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection (HDCP), an antipiracy measure expected to be encoded into Blu-ray discs. Those discs will also make use of Image Constraint Token (ICT) technology, which would artificially reduce the output resolution of any signal not sent over a secured connection like HDMI.

Currently, Microsoft's premium Xbox 360 comes packed with an HD component video cable, while purchasers of the Xbox 360 core system get a standard A/V cable and can pick up HD-compatible cables for $39.99. GameStop is also currently accepting preorders for a "universal" game-console HDMI cable that will cost $99.99. [UPDATE: The GameStop HDMI cable listing has since been pulled.]

That said, the premium PlayStation 3 has a standard HDMI output, meaning it can use regular HDMI cables. Those can be found for far lower prices on sites such as eBay, where a 15-foot HDMI-to-HDMI cable can go for under $10.

http://uk.gamespot.c....13&tag=nl.e513

i think its safe to assume that people who want HD will have to pay even more for HD.  

what i wonder is how the people who dont know anything about HD but own HDTVs are going to figure this out.  i have a buddy who's parents own a HDTV and think that everything they view on their TV is true/native HD when its not......

in regards to this situation:  buddy A goes over buddy B's house and see's 360 in high def and gets excited about owning a ps3 for high def.  Buddy A gets home with his ps3 and HDTV (not knowing anything about HD like a lot of the public) and hooks it up but looks nothing like the 360 because its not running on HD cables, Buddy B gets sour impression because games (or blue ray movies for that matter) look like ass compared to other HD mediums.  

i know this scenario is not likely to be commen but when i think back to how many 360 kiosks were set up incorrectly because there are soo many fools out there that know nothing/little about HD it seems more probable.  Hell just the other day i went to a walmart and passed by a 360 kiosk thinking it looked weird, when checking the display setting (on the 360 itself) it was still set up to display at 480p.  

either way, good to find this out for those who are planning on getting a ps3, im sure HD cables will be a high seller.

[twistedsymphony]

QUOTE

** Video output in HD requires cables and an HD-compatible display, both sold separately.

did you not understand?

Not only that 1080p is listed on both consoles because it's supported on BOTH consoles not just the 60GB version... the 20GB version supports it via component cabes... WHICH ARE SOLD SEPARATELY

it only mentions that you need HDMI for:

QUOTE

Copy-protected Blu-ray video discs can only output at 1080p using an HDMI cable connected to a device that is compatible with the HDCP standard.

Elementary school reading comprehension will tell you the following DIRECTLY

-resolution of 720p, 1080i, and 1080p will require the purchase of additional cables
-for Blu-Ray video discs to display at a resolution of 1080p will require the purchase of an HDMI cable

the following can be implied:
-the console does not include component video cables, VGA or HDMI cables (otherwise it wouldn't require the purchase of additional cables for video output in HD )
-480p is most likely not supported out of the box either since it requires the same type of cables.
-1080p games can be played using an HD connection other then HDMI since HDMI is only explicitly required for Blu-Ray video discs to produce a 1080p output

The fact that the ** refers to HD resolutions in general should tip you off that it applies to the entire line of text in the spec sheet as opposed to just 1080p. Besides, the APA standard notes that *s and other markers in text simply implies that you should insert the below marked text at that point. it does NOT explicitly mean that the text only applies to the immediately preceding word. This standard is taught at all public high schools in the US. If you didn't get then them I'm sorry but you fail High school English comprehension.

[Martinchris23]

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Sep 12 2006, 05:48 AM)

I was told otherwise but eh, ok.  I didn't know that.  1080p technology is so new that knowledge about it is pretty rare.  Same with 1080p content.  In most of the new HDTV models I've seen, 1080p was only compatiable through HDMI, like this http://www.samsung.c...=Specifications

That's the TV im getting, but I don't mind that it can't do 1080p over component, as I can just get a 600 model that has HDMI.

What I find really funny is that the one thing people (like yourself) are pushing is the fact the PS3 can output at 1080p, considering you haven't the foggiest idea what 1080p is.