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[Kira Yamoto]

1080p will mostly be used for Bluray movies, and games support won't come for awhile.  To add to that, most TV's are 1080i anyways.  By the time 1080p TV's are more common, the price for these cables will drop.  HDMI is still relatively new and uncommonly used.

[DragoNs]

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Sep 3 2006, 08:44 PM)

1080p will mostly be used for Bluray movies, and games support won't come for awhile.  To add to that, most TV's are 1080i anyways.  By the time 1080p TV's are more common, the price for these cables will drop.  HDMI is still relatively new and uncommonly used.

Lots of people use HDMI, and HDMI cables are pretty cheap... i dont see why this is such a big deal that PS3 doesnt come with one.

[Kira Yamoto]

lots of people that has an hdtv that is.  Most users are still on Standard Def.  The majority of consumers are still just upgrading to either Flat-Screen 480i capable TV's, or going affordable HDtv.

[Mr Invader]

QUOTE(DragoNs @ Sep 3 2006, 08:36 PM)

Lots of people use HDMI, and HDMI cables are pretty cheap... i dont see why this is such a big deal that PS3 doesnt come with one.

the article said that hdmi cables range from $50- $300, thats quite a bit for a cable despite it being high quality, i would complain

[Martinchris23]

QUOTE(maxlifo @ Sep 4 2006, 08:11 AM)

You can get HDMI cables for a couple of quid.  There is no signal degredation either as it's all ones and zeros.  You pay for the name when you buy an HDMI cable for that price.

I heartily agree - people just don't understand that with a digital connection there is no grey area. Either the signal reaches the destination or it doesn't. Of course, with extra long cables you just have to ensure it adheres with the standard it operates on. The same argument arose when Digital Coax was first released and people were paying silly money for a phono cable, whereas a standard RCA would do exactly the same job. Those who *did* pay the extra spend their time convincing others the sound was clearer - how, I still have no idea.

Ebuyer do very affordable HDMI for a few quid, as maxlifo has already stated.

[redwolf]

yeah i seen some HDMI cable at my local shop, on average they are around £40+

i thought they are "digital"...so why does it matter on quality of the cables (oxygen free, gold plated etc.)

anyways, $600 PS3 is cheap compared to the Xbox 360 if you add up all the other stuff (minus HDMI), not like "everyone" will use HDMI, specially in Europe. Maybe Sony should make a multi AV cable similar to X360's.

[Martinchris23]

QUOTE(redwolf @ Sep 4 2006, 09:40 AM)

yeah i seen some HDMI cable at my local shop, on average they are around £40+

i thought they are "digital"...so why does it matter on quality of the cables (oxygen free, gold plated etc.)

anyways, $600 PS3 is cheap compared to the Xbox 360 if you add up all the other stuff (minus HDMI), not like "everyone" will use HDMI, specially in Europe. Maybe Sony should make a multi AV cable similar to X360's.

That's the point - the OFC/gold plated stuff doesn't make any difference, unless you are running the cable near other items which emit electrical interference.

The costing argument of a PS3 over the 360 is only applicable if you intend to purchase all the 'other stuff' as you so put it.

I have no need for a Wi-fi connection, a 20GB HDD is large enough for me and I have no intention of entering the HD DVD/BluRay battle as I get HD content from other sources. To have this forced upon you and be made to adopt BluRay could well be the PS3's downfall unless the movies start improving. At the moment, HD-DVD is still better quality.

[thepissedoffman]

QUOTE(maxlifo @ Sep 4 2006, 04:11 AM)

You can get HDMI cables for a couple of quid.  There is no signal degredation either as it's all ones and zeros.  You pay for the name when you buy an HDMI cable for that price.

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. There is signal degradation in all cables.

The major difference between digital and analog, when dealing with a display signal, is that with an analog signal you can see the affects of that signal degradation (example: blurry image and ghosting) up to the point where the signal is no longer usable. With a digital signal you don't see any difference as the signal deteriorates until the point where the signal no longer works.


Back on topic:

I think it is crazy that Sony will not be including the HDMI cable. If somebody buys the premium package they should get the HDMI cable so that they can use the HDMI port. I could understand maybe not including it in the value package (if it had a HDMI port).

My interest in the PS3 has gone from willing to stand in line for 24 hours to get one to now where I will not be buying one until they drop the price to $300 for the HDMI model. All because Sony keeps making decisions that, IMHO, are screwing over hardcore gamers like myself. It is a shame since I was really looking forward to having all three of the next-gen consoles connected to my LCD this x-mas and playing FFXII on my PS3.

[Kira Yamoto]

QUOTE(thepissedoffman @ Sep 4 2006, 06:52 PM)

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. There is signal degradation in all cables.

The major difference between digital and analog, when dealing with a display signal, is that with an analog signal you can see the affects of that signal degradation (example: blurry image and ghosting) up to the point where the signal is no longer usable. With a digital signal you don't see any difference as the signal deteriorates until the point where the signal no longer works.
Back on topic:

I think it is crazy that Sony will not be including the HDMI cable. If somebody buys the premium package they should get the HDMI cable so that they can use the HDMI port. I could understand maybe not including it in the value package (if it had a HDMI port).

My interest in the PS3 has gone from willing to stand in line for 24 hours to get one to now where I will not be buying one until they drop the price to $300 for the HDMI model. All because Sony keeps making decisions that, IMHO, are screwing over hardcore gamers like myself. It is a shame since I was really looking forward to having all three of the next-gen consoles connected to my LCD this x-mas and playing FFXII on my PS3.

all because you can't spend some extra money for HDMI cables? Btw, its stuff like including Bluray and jacking up the cost of the PS3 that are pissing off gamers, and you're pissed off because they made the package CHEAPER? It seems like whatever they do it's a bad move.  The 360 core didn't include Component (which is the one I wanted to start with) so was that move bad for MS? No.  The 360 premium didn't include HDMI at all, so did that have any effect of "screwing over" gamers? No.  720p and 1080i are plenty enough for me.  If it works with analog, I have no issue.

So, kind of back on topic, would if make a difference if I bought monster component cables compared to the 14.99 ps2/xbox ones I have now?  I thought it didnt, a former acquaintence had bought a monster cable for his HDTV and I brought mine over and we couldn't see any differences.  I haven't tried it on my 480i crt though, but I imagine the differences wouldn't be that extreme.

[Martinchris23]

QUOTE(thepissedoffman @ Sep 4 2006, 05:52 PM)

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. There is signal degradation in all cables.

The major difference between digital and analog, when dealing with a display signal, is that with an analog signal you can see the affects of that signal degradation (example: blurry image and ghosting) up to the point where the signal is no longer usable. With a digital signal you don't see any difference as the signal deteriorates until the point where the signal no longer works.

Technically then he's still correct - you will either get a signal/picture, or you won't. There's no in-between ie degredation.

Agree with the HDMI cable comment - exactly how expensive can they be to manufacture? I think a lot of people will wait until the price drop, by which time we'll all be a little more clued up as to which HD format is dominant.

[blame canada]

If you can shell out $600 for a PS3, $2-3k+ for a tv with HDMI, then you sure as hell can pay $20 for an HDMI cable: http://www.monoprice.......at=2&style=

[thepissedoffman]

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Sep 4 2006, 02:25 PM)

all because you can't spend some extra money for HDMI cables?

I can easily afford the cost of a HDMI cable. That is not the point. The point is that Sony is not supplying what it takes to support that HDMI port out of the box. I buy a LCD with a DVI port I get a DVI cable. I buy a DVD player with a DVI port I get a DVI cable. If I did not get that cable I would feel ripped off.

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Sep 4 2006, 02:25 PM)

Btw, its stuff like including Bluray and jacking up the cost of the PS3 that are pissing off gamers

Jacking up the price is the main reason IMHO. Showing CGI movies and then saying they are game play movies. Delaying the PS3. Cutting features they promised. Lowering the clock speed of the GPU. Saying people are lucky to get the PS3 at $600. Those are just some of the other reasons.

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Sep 4 2006, 02:25 PM)

It seems like whatever they do it's a bad move.

That should read: "It seems like they are making all the wrong moves."

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Sep 4 2006, 02:25 PM)

The 360 core didn't include Component (which is the one I wanted to start with) so was that move bad for MS? No.  The 360 premium didn't include HDMI at all, so did that have any effect of "screwing over" gamers? No.  720p and 1080i are plenty enough for me.  If it works with analog, I have no issue.

Your example using the 360 is flawed big time. The Premium 360 package did not come with a HDMI cable. Know why? Because it did not support it nor did MS ever say it would. The premium 360 package came with the best possible connection that the 360 supported. People paid a premium for the best version of the 360 and got the best parts (IE wireless controller and component cable). According to this news the premium PS3 package will not come the best possible connect that it supports.

720p and 1080i may be plenty for you but I have a 1080p LCD TV that has a DVI port waiting for the PS3 to use. Since you obviously don't care about, or can't currently use, the HDMI your opinion is that of somebody that this does not affect. If I did not have a TV that could support this then I would not care either.

[Kira Yamoto]

QUOTE

According to this news the premium PS3 package will not come the best possible connect that it supports.

720p and 1080i may be plenty for you but I have a 1080p LCD TV that has a DVI port waiting for the PS3 to use. Since you obviously don't care about, or can't currently use, the HDMI your opinion is that of somebody that this does not affect. If I did not have a TV that could support this then I would not care either.

It's not that I don't care, I do.  I'm a technology buff and when I shop I try to buy the best possible stuff I can, especially video.  Either it's 1080p or no.  But anyways, there's a good reason that you might have overlooked about HDMI.  More people have analog inputs than HDMI.  If you think about it, theres SD sets out there such as my Wega that maxes out at 480i with analog component.  Then there are 1st generation HDTV's that only feature 1080i and analog component w/ no HDMI.  Next is 2nd generation with 720p support as well as 1080i, but with no HDMI.  Then we have current generation that supports 720p, 1080i, with HDMI, as well as higher priced units that support 1080p through HDMI.  If you look at the penetration of those with analog inputs than those with digital inputs, those with analog inputs clearly dwarf those with digital.  Let me add that there's an addition depth concerning CRT HDTV's and LCD/Plasma/DLP HDTV's that each have brought different configurations and settings depending on generation.  For this reason (so many people have analog), is why the 360 was designed around the analog input system.

[incognegro]

Who cares if it comes with an HDMI cable, I never thought it would anyway . I mean I had to buy optical cables seprarate to get surround sound on my current gen systems!

[Mr Invader]

QUOTE(redwolf @ Sep 4 2006, 04:40 AM)

anyways, $600 PS3 is cheap compared to the Xbox 360 if you add up all the other stuff (minus HDMI), not like "everyone" will use HDMI, specially in Europe. Maybe Sony should make a multi AV cable similar to X360's.

yeah, it is cheap if you want a wireless adapter, hd-dvd drive, and a bigger harddrive. But also, this is saying that its cheaper right now. By the time the PS3 comes out, i would bet that microsoft lowers the prices of their accessories. Plus its choice, someone who doesn't have a wireless router or a high definition tv will be paying for alot of unused merchandise on a PS3 ($500 or $600)