Print

[tomeaine]

QUOTE(drumstyx @ Jun 17 2006, 04:39 AM)

well im sure everyones heard about beta and laserdisc...both flops because only sony could make them...is this bluray another one? because although 600 for a bluray player is a great price, will it be worth it? will it just be another sony flop? anyway...just wondering about that
peace
drumstyx

You also forgot to add UMD and Memory stick..both Sony items that does crap.
I believe its a joint venture..Sony is just in the front line doing most of the dirty work.
IMO I do not think majority of consumers are ready for hd-dvd or blue ray...I think even most of them hasn't even heard of it yet.
I think maybe another 2-3 years we should see the real transitions from DVD to the next format.
The reasons for this is simply majority of the consumers probably do not even have a hd tv yet.
They will not fork over the big bucks to pay for a new player, especially something that is new technology that will cost a lot less and be better in a few years (viva DVD)
and of course..I don't think the interest is really there yet to watch most movies at a better quality..DVD is good enough for a lot of movies.

Do I think blue-ray will flop...I think so...It has a few benefits over hd-dvd..but I think simply the name of Hd-dvd is a lot stronger.Its just more consumer friendly.

[ConteZero76]

Don't act as a fanboy.
From a consumer point of view blue ray is "better".
It's larger and a bit more "robust".
It's a bit more expensive but this means nothing since prices are going to drop with mass production anyway.

This apart I don't care for who's getting the money, just gimmie a decent product.
HD-DVD is, for most aspects, below BD-DVD.

[Serious Sam]

QUOTE(ConteZero76 @ Jun 17 2006, 07:34 PM)

Don't act as a fanboy.
From a consumer point of view blue ray is "better".
It's larger and a bit more "robust".
It's a bit more expensive but this means nothing since prices are going to drop with mass production anyway.

This apart I don't care for who's getting the money, just gimmie a decent product.
HD-DVD is, for most aspects, below BD-DVD.

Yeah and Betamax was also the prefered format when it was available but we all know what the consumer adopted

[incognegro]

Does average customers even cares which media is bigger than the other? They just wanna know price and titles.

[calderra]

Point is: Why did Betamax, Laserdisc, etc all fail?
Because even though they offer "superior" features, they cost too much and don't deliver enough to warrant purchase to the average consumer.

BluRay costs >=$1,600 to play a single disc. ($1,500 player, cables, a $40 new movie...)
HD-DVD will cost probably $1,000 less. ($500 player, Component cables, a $25-30 new movie)

Now to an average consumer, is "barely better stuff- IF the industry supports ICT flags" worth $1,000? Because without the flags, there's really no visual difference, and there's barely any features difference. The only real up is higher storage meaning fewer boxes will have more than one disc. Whoopie. Totally worth $1,000 right?
 
Maybe I'm missing something, but this seems like the dumbest gamble in history.

Note also: The better tech format rarely wins. How long did floppy discs survive, despite the rise of infinitely better storage devices? (including just emailing stuff to yourself, which is faster and more reliable even on dialup). How many businesses still use tape storage despite the rise of- well, everything else (I've seen them in action- yes they're still around)? And you know people are still buying VHS en masse. Heck, there's plenty of people who are still getting their television signal from an antenna.

Why? Because it's cheaper. Features? Who cares. Again, I work retail. I still have to explain to people "what's that DVD thing all about" from time to time. And DVD-R? Rocket science. And combo players? It's like you're marketing the Space Shuttle to a third-world nation.

All the bulk of consumers care about is price and availability of titles. Are there lots of bleeding edge tech nuts? Sure. And they have massive pockets that can keep a technology in place for a long time (see also: Laserdisc living on through eBay and trade shows). But they don't have the long-term staying power to keep something tops in the market like Sony is expecting for BluRay.

Which do you think your average Wal-Mart customer will buy?
BluRay version of (popular movie): $42.99
HD-DVD version of (same movie): $34.99

And yes, that's a pretty normal price difference.

[paranoia4422]

QUOTE(ConteZero76 @ Jun 18 2006, 12:34 AM)

Don't act as a fanboy.
From a consumer point of view blue ray is "better".
It's larger and a bit more "robust".
It's a bit more expensive but this means nothing since prices are going to drop with mass production anyway.

This apart I don't care for who's getting the money, just gimmie a decent product.
HD-DVD is, for most aspects, below BD-DVD.

you're point , stand alone BD-DVD players are twice the price of HD-DVD ones, and they are not even out yet, not to mention movies are more expensive.

[Kamasutra318]

Actually, Laserdisc was cheaper than VHS. Regardless, there are numerous other reasons why those and other formats failed.

The average consumer probably doesn't care that Blu-ray holds more data as far as them being used for home entertainment, but its use in PCs is what could drive it to become more popular. But since you seem to want to focus on the home entertainment aspects, let's set aside the technical differences for now and look at studio support. Blu-ray has more "exclusive" support for now, so the choice between getting some movies on another format will be nonexistant.

Also, the Samsung player that I mentioned is $1000, not $1500. Then again, those prices are now, but "now" doesn't matter so much. Players are in such minimal quantity that they're sold out. DVD is still flourishing too. These new formats will take time to make their mark, and as they do the price gap will narrow. And people are NOT still buying VHS "en masse"; it is still popular enough to stay afloat though. Know that those people who still buy VHS movies and get their TV from antenna are in the minority in first-world countries.

[Kamasutra318]

(sorry for the double-post, but it wouldn't allow me to edit)

QUOTE(paranoia4422 @ Jun 18 2006, 04:08 PM)

stand alone BD-DVD players are twice the price of HD-DVD ones, and they are not even out yet, not to mention movies are more expensive.

I believe I said that they are out early (unofficially) in some stores. Also, price depends on the manufacturer and retailer. For instance, preorders of 50 First Dates are selling for US$29.99 at Best Buy and US$19.99 at Amazon. However, a newer movie like Underworld: Evolution is US$27.29 at Amazon.

[tomeaine]

QUOTE(ConteZero76 @ Jun 18 2006, 12:34 AM)

Don't act as a fanboy.
From a consumer point of view blue ray is "better".
It's larger and a bit more "robust".
It's a bit more expensive but this means nothing since prices are going to drop with mass production anyway.

This apart I don't care for who's getting the money, just gimmie a decent product.
HD-DVD is, for most aspects, below BD-DVD.

Sorry...I miss the section fo my reply as a fanboy...dont get it.
Just opnions of how a normal consumer will see it.
Brand name is a very large part of how products are sucessfull.
Right now everyone has heard of HD and possibly seen an hd signal.
When peeps say I have HD...the people that dont get it drool from the mouth when they see it.
Using HD-dvd is a great marketing name simply cause it already a name used and has 100% no questions asked what it means..
Blueray on the other hand...wtf is it...thats what the average consumer will ask..

I am sure each format is great and both have there tradeoffs..
Its like lcd vs plasma
Plasma by most cosnumers is god.
But which of the 2 has sold more...lcd..by far

[twistedsymphony]

QUOTE(Serious Sam @ Jun 17 2006, 11:39 PM)

Yeah and Betamax was also the preferred format when it was available but we all know what the consumer adopted

QUOTE(Kamasutra318 @ Jun 18 2006, 05:12 AM)

That was then and this is now. I think it's safe to say that consumers, as a whole, are much more tech savvy now.

What about SACD.. you know Sony's HD Audio format that was introduced just a couple of years ago and has completely flopped and pretty much disappeared. It's pretty obvious that consumers haven't changed. If I had to guess I'd say that they're even LESS informed then they were years ago.

QUOTE(calderra @ Jun 18 2006, 10:58 AM)

Point is: Why did Betamax, Laserdisc, etc all fail?
Because even though they offer "superior" features, they cost too much and don't deliver enough to warrant purchase to the average consumer.

That's exactly why SACD failed... you had to buy more expensive Sony Brand players that only worked with amps that had multi-channel analog pre-amp inputs The whole thing was confusing for the customer and WAY more expensive then what most wanted to spend. DVD Audio and it's cousin Dual-Disc are doing well because anyone with a DVD player can enjoy them and there are no special surround sound requirements.  The quality wasn't as good but there also wasn't much difference in quality. Therefore the cost and complexity differences are what made the difference to consumers.

I see the same thing happening with HD-DVD vs Blue-Ray. Yes the theoretically quality of the Blue-Ray media is better because it offers more space but if the resultant quality on the screen in negligible then people are going to go with whatever is cheaper. If you're going to charge twice the price consumers are going to expect twice the quality. We live in a walmart society cost drives more consumer decisions then you think.

[Sc4rfac3]

can i add md's on to that list

[tomeaine]

QUOTE(Sc4rfac3 @ Jun 19 2006, 05:42 PM)

can i add md's on to that list

Hmmm..The big push for md as used for a consumer level wasnt the right direction.
I personally think Md's are really cool and they have lots of great applications as such in demoing music from a studio as well as djs.
Last I remember playing with them the qulaity was actually quite good.

[Serious Sam]

QUOTE(Kamasutra318 @ Jun 19 2006, 01:32 PM)

Yes, I am serious. Nice rant, but ultimately pointless since you haven't used any sales figures to dispute it. By variety I mostly meant that Sony makes a "variety" of devices in which they are usable unlike certain other formats whose uses are relatively slim. Additionally, PCs from OEMs are more often coming with Media Card Readers, which are capable of using them. Memory Stick is doing well and has lasted 8 years; get over it.

The only reason people buy Sony mem sticks are because they have no choice with their equipment. They are forced to if they buy a Sony product that has a memory slot. But given the choice consumers will buy other forms of memory since they are cheaper and faster than the crappy Sony mem stick.

I seriously doubt that the Sony mem stick sells more than SD or CF media.

Example: Give the customer a choice for portable file storage purposes on their PC. What do you think they will buy? SD/CF media and reader or Sony memory stick and reader? It's pretty obvious what most will say

[lostboyz]

the only thing blu-ray has over HD-DVD is its possible size. what is the max 200gb? what do you think that is going to cost when a 15gb one is $40. HD space will always be cheaper more reliable and safer. You can get external 2.5" HDs for almost $1 per GB. So space even in the mind of a PC owner is not worth it. Look at dual layers right now, twice the size, three times the price and half of the burns arent reliable.

[lostboyz]

dont make yourself into a martyr, because your not, yea there are some fanboys, this is xbox-scene after all, but just because they get on you dosent mean everything you say is justified.