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[mlmadmax]

That is a pretty long wait but it sounds like it will be worth it.

There is also another thing that crossed my mind. While you (m_hael) seem like a programer who is good at what he does and takes pride in what he does there are many other programmers (Gundam) who just don't seem to want to take advantage of what the PS3 has to offer and obviously don't take pride in there work.

It seems to me there is a lot going against the fact that the ps3 has great hardware and while it will be nice in a year and a half to two years I am really enjoying other platforms right now. I just wish things would move a little faster with programing and progres in general with the ps3 and am getting tired of waiting.  

[m_hael]

bad sales, high prices, high license fees and generally not up to MS standard support means companies are not willing to put the money into ps3 titles right now.

I work for the biggest publisher in the west so I get the opportunity and the time... others are not so fortunate.

please don't blame the programmers... most are like me.

[hamwbone]

QUOTE(m_hael @ Apr 24 2007, 08:05 PM)

I saw that you'd posted and simply KNEW it would be something faceious....  

I segued in by naming myself a redneck as a joke to forwardly claim my ignorance on the topic. 90% of what you all said is over my head. I do, however, trust your facts above and beyond anybody else posting here due to the reputation that precedes you. Whatever the intent of my statement may have been, it does have some merit. People can fight and argue untill their fingers turn blue about the graphic potential of any system. I just find it funny that some thing as simple as rumble would hold me back from buying a system that, from what you claim and rather frightenes me as I love my xbox so much, could graphically beat Bill Gates console to a pulp.  Maybe I'm a neanderthal for thinking so simple. At least I'm happy to know we are not all extinct. You can find my brothers and sisters waiting in line to buy a Nintendo Wii - archaic graphics and all.

   

[m_hael]

hey if its what drives your decision then thats all fine with me; I don't sell the consoles I just work on them :-P

I think we may actually be in a period where 3 horses have equal standing in a race with many facets... you represent one of those facets; gameplay experience over graphics.

[KAGE360]

all of this is really awesome, thanks M_hael.  

a few questions just out of curiosity though:

-it was stated before that developers only use 5 SPEs since they can not rely on the 6th being there all the time.  did sony improve their tools so that the 6th can be used half the time now?  

-you said that in a few generations we will be seeing more complex games on the ps3, does this include the "look" of the game or just the numbers of actions displayed on the screen?  i assumed that the look was more GPU related, and that complex means more actions taking place on the screen at once (ex: 2000 characters on the screen on the ps3 vs. 1500 on the 360 or the ps3 game running at 60fps vs the 360 running 30fps)  

-would the gap be to the point that games would be done on the ps3 exclusively because they were not possible on the 360.  similar to how some games were only on the xbox (doom 3, riddick, etc) because porting these games to the ps2/GC would have ruined the experience.  

-i read a write-up where a programmer gave his views on both CPUs in these systems.  like you mentioned he talked about adding software threads to the ps3, but he stated that there would be limits on these threads because of the 256kb of memory on each SPE.  how true is this?

thanks for any answers.

[m_hael]

QUOTE(KAGE360 @ Apr 25 2007, 05:21 AM)

-it was stated before that developers only use 5 SPEs since they can not rely on the 6th being there all the time.  did sony improve their tools so that the 6th can be used half the time now?  

not tools per se... sony implemented a threading kernel... they simply use some of the quanta of one of the spu's.

QUOTE(KAGE360 @ Apr 25 2007, 05:21 AM)

-you said that in a few generations we will be seeing more complex games on the ps3, does this include the "look" of the game or just the numbers of actions displayed on the screen?  i assumed that the look was more GPU related, and that complex means more actions taking place on the screen at once (ex: 2000 characters on the screen on the ps3 vs. 1500 on the 360 or the ps3 game running at 60fps vs the 360 running 30fps)  

It could be either... graphics wise I think the 360 will be fine as its 48ALU's perform way better than the RSX. I would doubt any company would do a 60/30 split as that changes a lot more than people realise.

QUOTE(KAGE360 @ Apr 25 2007, 05:21 AM)

-would the gap be to the point that games would be done on the ps3 exclusively because they were not possible on the 360.  similar to how some games were only on the xbox (doom 3, riddick, etc) because porting these games to the ps2/GC would have ruined the experience.  

that is entirely possible yes.

QUOTE(KAGE360 @ Apr 25 2007, 05:21 AM)

-i read a write-up where a programmer gave his views on both CPUs in these systems.  like you mentioned he talked about adding software threads to the ps3, but he stated that there would be limits on these threads because of the 256kb of memory on each SPE.  how true is this?

very true, it is a prime directive for generating code for use on the SPU's.

[KAGE360]

QUOTE(m_hael @ Apr 25 2007, 09:58 AM)

that is entirely possible yes.

wow that was fast, thanks bud.

now i expected all of these answers but this one honestly.  im much happier knowing the truth but now i question why A LOT of developers have been stating that the gap in power is nowhere near the same as with the ps2 vs xbox and that the hardware will hardly become a factor.  while these same developers have not denied that there is more potential in the Cell, they would continue to state that while each system has their benefits (360 has GPU/memory while ps3 is Cell for ex.) in the end it's pretty much a wash.  so why have developers (John Carmack, Denis Dyack, Itigaki, etc) given the impression that while there will be a performance gap, it wouldnt be so severe that hardware would be an issue?  

i always assumed that it would just come down to a frame rate difference, or somthing subtle like less actions on screen, but not now with your answer.  thanks for clarification man.  

BTW, how is your gig anyways?  im not on here as much as i used to be (PC issues) so if you ever made any comments about  your new employer i probably missed it.

[m_hael]

you know who I'm working for so my opinions on my employer will never be public... see EA SPOUSE fallout.

[KAGE360]

sorry about that didnt know that event caused such a lock down, well best of luck to you either way  

im more concerned over the false image that some developers have created over these systems though

[m_hael]

QUOTE(KAGE360 @ Apr 25 2007, 08:09 AM)

im more concerned over the false image that some developers have created over these systems though

its not a false image, its a reflection of the programmers impetus, ability and initiative.

[Foe-hammer]

QUOTE(m_hael @ Apr 24 2007, 06:00 PM)

my guess would be by xmas '07 you'll start to see a leveling with xmas '08 being the turning point.

I guess i'll be waiting until christmas '08 to purchase a ps3, and enjoy my 360 until then.