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[b15ginz]

i honestly thing the ps3 has A LOT of potential.

i think right now xbox360 over powers the ps3.

i played R: TFOM. on HD and i wasnt impressed at all. i think the textures suck. the cutscenes look greast but the in gameplay is horrible. i also think the way it ends and you beat the boards is retarded. u shoot the last guy and it ends. they need to work on that, but thats only the game.

the reason i say it has  A LOT of potention is because its blu ray. 25gb games. the more gameplay bc of the 35gigs will KILL the 360. however i dont see how a man gme, for example COD3, how the game can be extened for the ps3.

i look foward to what the ps3 will bring next year. i wont be paying 600 dollars for it, thats for sure. and since some of the games that were ps3 exclusive, r no longer.

[bigjimmy]

Indeed it has potential.......but that potenital has to be used for the PS3 to be worth the insane amount of money it costs.

I was also very dissapointed with the PS3 when i first played it.....ATM its better to get a 360 or a Wii......the PS3 doesnt have anything the 360 doesnt have atm......

[supergrafx]

QUOTE(luther349 @ Dec 28 2006, 03:33 AM)

space means knothing if all your games suck. blueray no diffrence. it just annoyed me with these fanboys thinking having more storage on a console will make it better. example the n64 had abought a 1/3 the storage then a ps1 and look how well the n64 did voted best console ever. space means knothing if a game is in fact to big for a 8.9 gb dvd then well they will just use 2. relly most games will not get bigger then 8.9 gb hell its aruldy been proven on one of the games it was not 25 gb more the 4gb the rest was padding or other regions. games will not reach 8 gigs anytime soon. other then maybe rpgs blue dragion is one but its also 3 dvds long or 2 blueray disk. see once again the space ment knothing.

Once again, you bring up good points. Personally, the N64 just sucked though... and Ps1 was better...but the pc-engine super cdrom2 system, was even better and it had lower specs than the ps1. I say you make a good points about the cartridge vs. cd in that neo-geo, even though only a 16bit system, with the amount of megabytes that could be pushed without load times, ect..., rocked and continues to be an alltime favorite. Basically for Samurai Spririts 5 special with the gore, runnin on a good old xbox emu fbaxxxpro. N64 just sucks. I used to disagree about this with my ex. And she sucks too.  Oh, yeah, this last sentence I'm typing in here is a quick edit to what I just wrote: blu-ray will destroy dl dvd. Actually, microsofts hd-dvd will destroy dl dvd as well. Go figure... Tell me they shouldn't have just put in the hd-dvd player instead of the dl-dvd for an extra 100, instead of the 200 they are asking for, this is with the saving costs of not putting the dl-dvd player in there in the first place. And the hd-dvd player will never be used for games? This is a joke

[The Juggler]

QUOTE(supergrafx @ Dec 29 2006, 01:45 AM)

Tell me they shouldn't have just put in the hd-dvd player instead of the dl-dvd for an extra 100, instead of the 200 they are asking for, this is with the saving costs of not putting the dl-dvd player in there in the first place. And the hd-dvd player will never be used for games? This is a joke

When the 360 came out, HD-DVD players were selling at $1000.
M$ would have had to bump the price on the console up more than $100!  
First off, there is no way the current DVD player in the 360 costs $100 to manufacture.  I just bought a DL-DVD BURNER for my PC for $30. I bet that player in the 360 cost them around $15 to have manufactured.
It's similar to why Sony had to charge so much for the PS3.  If they would have put a standard DVD into it, the PS3 probably would have been priced to match the 360.

Even though M$ denies the plans to build a 360 with built in HD-DVD, I'm sure it'll happen...especially now that the cost of the players have come down significantly.

I also think they'll make games on HD-DVD, but I'm sure they'll have multiple disc DVD versions as well.

Plus, with all the downloadable content (especially the HD stuff), how long can it be until there is a HD upgrade? It's pretty easy to fill that 20GB already.

I can't complain about spending $600 on the PS3.  I've already spent well over that on the 360. (not including games).

So, to sum it up, as an owner of both, I'm quite pleased with both systems thus far.  I think they are really quite equal. BUT, I'd really like to see some more good games for both systems, and I'd like to see where second generation games take us.

[mc_365]

Blu Ray will have close to zero impact on games.

Blu Ray media is more expensive to manufacture.

Game studios need to get games out faster to be more profitable.

Current games taking close to a year for mediocre games and longer for good games,

the best of which don't fill a DL DVD.

Why would a studio spend more time and money to produce a game with that much content when they could

release a follow up like Ubisoft did with "Ghost Recon Island Thunder", and sell it to you?

Blu Ray will successfully slow PS3 sales becuase of lack of diodes, inturn studios will optimize their code for

the 360 which dosen't use Blu Ray anyway.

Also there is much less difficulty codeing for the 360 allowing the studios to complete games faster.

[VariableElite]

QUOTE(heartofalion @ Dec 30 2006, 01:17 AM)

just a quick note, cuz ur burner was 30$ doesnt mean the 360's drive is cheap, all dvd players read dl dvds, the 360's drives cost more because they are SATA and not IDE. if you look up sata drives for pcs they are $80-$100

Not if you're buying them in lots of 500,000...

[PS360]

QUOTE(mc_365 @ Dec 29 2006, 06:59 PM)

Blu Ray will have close to zero impact on games.

Blu Ray media is more expensive to manufacture.

Game studios need to get games out faster to be more profitable.

Current games taking close to a year for mediocre games and longer for good games,

the best of which don't fill a DL DVD.

Why would a studio spend more time and money to produce a game with that much content when they could

release a follow up like Ubisoft did with "Ghost Recon Island Thunder", and sell it to you?

Blu Ray will successfully slow PS3 sales becuase of lack of diodes, inturn studios will optimize their code for

the 360 which dosen't use Blu Ray anyway.

Also there is much less difficulty codeing for the 360 allowing the studios to complete games faster.

You forgot to add:

Bluray has MANY times the corporate backing

Companies like Apple, Dell, Samsung, Pioneer, and biggest movie studios are members of BR disc association

Bluray has larger capacity

Bluray has many more movies announced for 2007 than HD-DVD

360's HD-DVD addon is not HDCP-compliant


It's more expensive to produce, that's right. But with the kind of backing BR is getting, the kind of companies that will be pushing it as a format in their products, and with Sharp and Sony starting to fix diode production issues, you can expect production costs to dive...as well as costs of BR players. Not to mention the fact that every PS3 sold is another BR player in a household.

[Pheidias]

Ps360 yes blueray has all 3 more titles for 2007

[VariableElite]

QUOTE(PS360 @ Jan 2 2007, 10:07 PM)

You forgot to add:

Bluray has MANY times the corporate backing

Companies like Apple, Dell, Samsung, Pioneer, and biggest movie studios are members of BR disc association

Bluray has larger capacity

Bluray has many more movies announced for 2007 than HD-DVD

360's HD-DVD addon is not HDCP-compliant
It's more expensive to produce, that's right. But with the kind of backing BR is getting, the kind of companies that will be pushing it as a format in their products, and with Sharp and Sony starting to fix diode production issues, you can expect production costs to dive...as well as costs of BR players. Not to mention the fact that every PS3 sold is another BR player in a household.

As TwistedSymphony has pointed out several times, HD-DVD currently has more storage.

Single-layer HD: 15GB
Dual-layer HD: 30GB
Single-layer BR: 25GB

Dual-layer BR isn't in use yet because it's currently too expensive to manufacture.

And the HDCP-compliance point only applies to the 360's HD player, and for only so long as there is no HDMI output on the 360. It can't be counted as a strike against HD-DVDs, especially when the studios have agreed to hold off on its use for now.

[VariableElite]

QUOTE(Eric10301 @ Jan 4 2007, 05:59 AM)

LOL "Dual layer bluray isnt being used" I think someone forgot to tell this to the movie studios. I always love to see people posting mis information about Bluray on forums.

My bad. What, five releases thus far on D/L Blu-Ray?

Highly impressive.  

Sounds almost like a recent console launch...  

[twistedsymphony]

While it's true I did make that comparison, I did so before there were any DL BRD releases... back before the weren't even using the VC-1 codec when HD-DVD was far and wide superior for movie viewing. Blue-Ray as of late has done a lot to catch up in that regard. Though AFAIK they aren't using DL discs for games yet, so it doesn't really matter.

I think there are some important things to consider here

1. "The PS3 has a lot of potential" - That's great... but as others have mentioned potential is worthless unless it's actually utilized. You may also recall another console that was priced higher then it's competitors, lost a lot of exclusive 3rd party support, was rushed to launch, and had bucket loads of potential (and arguably more powerful then it's competitors)... the Sega Saturn. The Saturn had some great games, heck I own a number of games and 3 Saturn consoles, but the problem was it was priced too high for consumers to afford and much of the 3rd party support went to competitors due to Sega's bullying of 3rd parties and the poor launch sales.

The Saturn was easily the most powerful system of that generation, but it was tricky to program for because it used a unique 3 processor architecture and had poor development tools making that power difficult to tap (ring any bells?) Ultimately it failed due to PR blunders, high price, and poor 3rd party support. I'm not saying the PS3 will suffer the same fate as the Saturn, but there are certainly more similarities between the two then there are between the 360 and the Dreamcast that everyone likes to draw similarities from.

2. "Bluray has MANY times the corporate backing" - Very true... but it's useless for video games, actually it's useless to movie fans too considering dual-format players will be hitting the market soon. Once that happens  the PS3 loses a lot of it's allure as an Blu-Ray player because consumers will still have to buy an HD-DVD player if they want to play ALL movies.

Because the movie studios are split (at all) with their support, consumers can't easily choose one format over another, it's not like Paramount and Warner Brothers release the same movie and you choose one over the other... this isn't buying a car where two different companies produce similar product that do exactly the same thing and you pick one... Movie fans like all types of movies, from all studios. Chances are if two different studios produce similar movies and you're a FAN of that type of movie, you'll want to see BOTH of them.

I feel HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are going the way of DVD-R and DVD+R... the industry couldn't come to terms so both formats become wrapped into one to the point where consumers can buy the media blind and it will just work... You'd be a fool to buy a burner today that didn't support both formats, similarly if you owned an old burner that only supported one and not the other you'd probably be in dire need of an upgrade.

Lets also consider WHY more studios back Blu-Ray... From the technical side of a cost/benefit analysis HD-DVD makes a lot more sense, the tech is cheaper for consumers, it's cheaper to manufacture, it's cheaper to upgrade existing equipment, HD-DVD discs are more durable, the two formats are essentially equal in terms of disc content mastering and codec support, and the difference in resulting picture and sound is marginal at best, not to mention HD-DVD was coming to market sooner... point to HD-DVD

So why the increased support for Blu-Ray?... it stems purely from a marketing standpoint, back when this whole debacle started Sony assembled all the Movie big-wigs into a conference room and explained it plainly:

The PS2 has sold an overwhelming number of units, they would be including their Blu-Ray format in every PS3, and the PS3 is expected to sell as well if not better then the PS2... Essentially putting Blu-Ray in millions of homes almost immediately.

To a corporate talking head with no insight into the video game industry or technical background what-so-ever that sounds like a sweet deal and a very very easy decision.

Now that the the dual format players are coming out it wont even matter... movie companies will be able to feel confident releasing their film on which ever format best suits them because consumers will be able to play their movie no matter what.

This would obsolete the PS3's disc playing capabilities right out of the gate because it will only be able to play half of the films released, it looses it's use as a cheap HD movie player, and it's Blu-Ray only drive essentially becomes useful only for gaming applications...

Which as of now the gaming applications for Blu-Ray have yet to really prove themselves as being more benificial then DVD.

once again, lots of potential but potential is useless unless you have people who make something of it.

[redwolf]

QUOTE(b15ginz @ Dec 26 2006, 04:30 AM)

i played R: TFOM. on HD and i wasnt impressed at all. i think the textures suck. the cutscenes look greast but the in gameplay is horrible.

what about anti-aliasing? i heard it's poor, due to lack of embeded ram.

[Pheidias]

Heh the funny crowd sure is at it again.

VariableElite you sure takes getting whooped like a man...

Twisted lots in that big post of yours is spelled out like facts but not much is. And in my opinion there are more eerie similarities between the xbox360 and dreamcast then PS3 and saturn. You do have some very good points with the speculation that hd-dvd and blu-ray will be ending up in a tie in the movie business I do think hd-dvd will win acctually. But blu-ray will win the medium war. Hd-dvd will probably only be used for movies and nothing else.

[twistedsymphony]

I figured it was apparent that most of the things I said were opinion and speculation considering it talks about things happening in the future...

Anyone that talks about anything in the future is speculating, of course there are varying degrees of accuracy but it's impossible for any of it to asserted as fact. I apologize if I was unclear in that regard, I simply assumed it was a common conception when discussing future events.

As for the media war... I'd agree that Blu-Ray has a much better chance but I'm unsure if either format will really take off for that use. the PC market is much more volatile and change can occur in a much more nimble fashion than with other tech. Competing formats like ever increasing HDD and Flash based USB storage, and of course the ever increasing broadband connections allowing for online distribution as well as online backups, I think it would be difficult for any new optical disc format to make a real stake in the computer storage space. Then of course you have other new techs on the way like HVD that could easily compete in that area.

[Pheidias]

Twisted I was more talking about your sony maffia meeting with Ken walking around with a baseball bat forcing studio heads to sign exclusivity deals

Acctually now that moore himself has said that his law doesn't apply anymore i'm pretty sure we won't see anymore drastic increases in storage, hdd wise.