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[m_hael]

QUOTE(throwingks @ Oct 8 2006, 07:02 AM)

Edit: Explorer after a reboot was at 25Mb. And, Firefox was at 41Mb.

since when would firefox be included in a memory footprint analysis of the OS? It runs on top of the OS?

QUOTE(throwingks @ Oct 8 2006, 07:02 AM)

I wonder why the Xbox360 isnt labelled based on WinCE like the Dreamcast was?

afaik its NOT based on CE (tho I could probably check for sure in a couple of days) so why would they label it so? It has elements that CE uses, but that doesn't mean its based on it.

[throwingks]

QUOTE(m_hael @ Oct 8 2006, 12:14 PM)

since when would firefox be included in a memory footprint analysis of the OS? It runs on top of the OS?

You're right, I was just making reference to how much space it takes as a single app. Comparing it to WinXP. Read in that same post where I was defending WinXP comparing it to how many resources Firefox takes. I wasn't implying Firefox is needed for windows to run or that it's made by M$.

I probably just added to confusion by mentioning Firefox, I just thought it was odd it was eating up so much.

As far as WinCE, if they put the label on it, it could be used as a sort of viral/word-of-mouth marketing.

[twistedsymphony]

QUOTE(throwingks @ Oct 8 2006, 10:02 AM)

Right now my explorer.exe is taking up 36,884K and all my svchost.exe are over 35,000K. That is 70Mb right there. I know more files are needed than just that.

In their defence, right now Firefox alone is over 100Mb

Edit: Explorer after a reboot was at 25Mb. And, Firefox was at 41Mb.

Did I just threadcrap my own thread? I wonder why the Xbox360 isnt labelled based on WinCE like the Dreamcast was?

Which version of windows are you running I'm using XP MCE 2005, which IIRC is designed to use up less system resources.

and yeah Firefox is a HUGE memory hog... though I don't beleive I've ever seen it sucking up more then 60 or so MB, then again I'm only using 3 extentions on top of it, and two of them remove content from the page theoretically reducing the load.

[throwingks]

QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ Oct 10 2006, 07:33 AM)

Which version of windows are you running I'm using XP MCE 2005, which IIRC is designed to use up less system resources.

and yeah Firefox is a HUGE memory hog... though I don't beleive I've ever seen it sucking up more then 60 or so MB, then again I'm only using 3 extentions on top of it, and two of them remove content from the page theoretically reducing the load.

I am using XP Home SP2.
And, my Firefox has 10 extensions  
http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=551246 <--- I know you know. Link for people that don't.

Let me check my laptop I have MCE 2002 (built on Pro) and themes disabled. BRB

Edit: MCE 02 adjusted for best performance settings and indexing turned off 26.5MB at boot.

[KAGE360]

QUOTE(Mojiba @ Oct 8 2006, 08:57 AM)

"- 64mb of the 256mb of available XDR memory off the Cell CPU
- 32mb of the 256mb of available GDDR3 memory off the RSX chip
- 1 SPE of 7 constantly reserved
- 1 SPE of 7 able to be "taken" by the OS at a moments notice (games have to give it up if requested)"

"In the case of the PS3 this equates to 12.5% of the available Cores on the CPU always reserved, an additional 12.5% sometimes taken by the OS, 12.5% of the available RSX memory and 25% of XDR Cell memory. Balancing these out, one could argue that Sony has removed up to 25% of the available CPU power and 18.75% of RAM for these features as well as others that are not mentioned here or will be added in future updates to the PS3 Operation System."

Ars technica

you posted it before i could  

i posted this info a while back, i can probably find the original thread as well.  i dont know if it was ever confirmed but there hasnt been any other changed reports since then.  

Twisted, i remember reading the same article about the 360 a while back as well.  If i remember correctly, the dashboard/OS/etc uses only 2%-3% of cores 2 and 3 while core 1 is entirely left for gaming applications.  i dont remember how much of a memory footprint is used on the 360 but i do remember it being smaller then the ps3's

as far as M_heal's original comment about the memory usage not being the same by a long long way, i think its safe to assume which takes up less memory with all the dev comments about there being less memory on the ps3.

[twistedsymphony]

QUOTE(KAGE360 @ Oct 10 2006, 10:55 AM)

...i dont remember how much of a memory footprint is used on the 360 but i do remember it being smaller then the ps3's

IIRC the Xbox 360's memory footprint from the OS was "less than 20MB"

[Foe-hammer]

QUOTE(m_hael @ Oct 7 2006, 03:51 PM)

there is also the fact that both sony & MS take "some" of the 512MB totals for themselves. This is for use on things like the GUIDE, camera drivers, downloads etc...

what you guys don't know yet is how much each (Sony & MS) takes... and its not the same by a LONG LONG way.

On that subject:

QUOTE

In its 512MB RAM, 32MB is allocated for the system.

http://www.xbox360ne...qs/blr_483.aspx

Is that correct; the 360 has 32MB reserved for the system....meaning that those 32MB cannot be used for the actual game?

And for the ps3, is one SPU reserved for the OS?

M_hael, is this considered 'common knowledge' enough for you to discuss without breaching you NDA (or whatever it is called)?

[incognegro]

Yes that was what I was referring to about the ps3 OS taking up memory and crap

[redwolf]

QUOTE(Deftech @ Oct 8 2006, 12:23 AM)

They can only manage what they are given, where as if a dev needs more than 256 for the graphics side of things, they can use it as needed with the 360. Being Given a choice is always better dont ya think?

i was looking some list where games doing true 1080p @60fps with PS3:

NBA 07
Virtua Tennis 3
Ridge Racer 7
Gundam:Crossfire
Tony Hawk project 8
Grand Turismo HD
DMC4
Heavanly Sword
Motorstorm
Vitural Fighter5
Gundam:Crossfire
Lair
MGS4
Resistance:Fall of Man

some of them are launch titles, so people developing above don't have this RAM issue? i was looking at some Ridge Racer and Motorstorm videos, they looked incredibly smooth. anyways, like i said if they (Micro$oft & Co) don't fix the crappy 30fps and still suffering from v-sync then PS3 will just own it.

[Deftech]

like cod 3 on ps3 running at 30 and under while the 360 version is @ 60?

   

Havent you learned yet to not believe published numbers? They say 60fps and 1080p and youre so willing to believe it. I never believe any of that crap until Im playing the game and see it for myself.

[KAGE360]

QUOTE(Foe-hammer @ Oct 11 2006, 04:35 AM)

M_hael, is this considered 'common knowledge' enough for you to discuss without breaching you NDA (or whatever it is called)?

i would suspect that he can talk about the 360 and how much resources the OS takes up because it has been made public.  as for the ps3, nothing has come from sony themselves so i figure that is still covered by NDA.

QUOTE(redwolf @ Oct 11 2006, 08:05 AM)

i was looking some list where games doing true 1080p @60fps with PS3:

NBA 07
Virtua Tennis 3
Ridge Racer 7
Gundam:Crossfire
Tony Hawk project 8
Grand Turismo HD
DMC4
Heavanly Sword
Motorstorm
Vitural Fighter5
Gundam:Crossfire
Lair
MGS4
Resistance:Fall of Man

some of them are launch titles, so people developing above don't have this RAM issue? i was looking at some Ridge Racer and Motorstorm videos, they looked incredibly smooth. anyways, like i said if they (Micro$oft & Co) don't fix the crappy 30fps and still suffering from v-sync then PS3 will just own it.

there is a good chance that at least half of those games are upscaled in some form.  either upscaled in the GPU and then having that frame dumped in the frame buffer or some other method.  like it has been said before, getting a game to run in 1080p is possible but i find it odd how half of those games you list state that they "support" 1080p and dont run at 1080p natively.  in that case if "support" counts as a 1080p game then after the update every 360 game will be 1080p.

as far as the v-sync and such, you dont think you will find a good shair of ps3 games having grapical problems as well??  i can see a good number of ps3 games being void of AA which is much worse then some v-sync problem.

QUOTE(Deftech @ Oct 11 2006, 08:37 AM)

like cod 3 on ps3 running at 30 and under while the 360 version is @ 60?

   

Havent you learned yet to not believe published numbers? They say 60fps and 1080p and youre so willing to believe it. I never believe any of that crap until Im playing the game and see it for myself.

i thought CoD3 ran at 30fps  

that is awsome if true!!

[incognegro]

QUOTE

i would suspect that he can talk about the 360 and how much resources the OS takes up because it has been made public. as for the ps3, nothing has come from sony themselves so i figure that is still covered by NDA.

Im telling u that shit did become public.....it was just forgotten. I remember earlier this year at some developers conference, Sony was explaining to devs about their dash and how much its gonna cost the memory and how it takes one spe at all times. They even spoke about the "guide button" rip-off the have in store. I just dont remember the actual number. It was in the ps3-scene headlines. I remember being surprised but how huge the memory footprint was and thought the dash was gonna be something crazy!!!

Only to find out its just a crappier version of the PSP browser.

[KAGE360]

QUOTE(incognegro @ Oct 11 2006, 11:05 AM)

Im telling u that shit did become public.....it was just forgotten. I remember earlier this year at some developers conference, Sony was explaining to devs about their dash and how much its gonna cost the memory and how it takes one spe at all times. They even spoke about the "guide button" rip-off the have in store. I just dont remember the actual number. It was in the ps3-scene headlines. I remember being surprised but how huge the memory footprint was and thought the dash was gonna be something crazy!!!

Only to find out its just a crappier version of the PSP browser.

talking to the devs is not the same as being made public.  i forget who (J. Allard perhaps) said a couple of times how much CPU consumption and memory is used for the guide.  <- when said out in the open during an interview, press conference for an event or show, or stated where it can be published/viewed publically is going public.  

what we have seen for the ps3 may be correct and accurate but it never came directly from sony.  not the same thing, if it were then im sure M_heal would have already stated some specific information like he does when possible.  

QUOTE

In its 512MB RAM, 32MB is allocated for the system.

i thought it was under 20mb  

either way 32mb is still far less then the reported 96mb of the ps3

[throwingks]

^
Nice find.

In your link the OS is only taking ~3.3MB. That is substantially less than I thought. But, explorer.exe is not running. With the GUI(explorer.exe) running @ ~18MB - ~36MB. That is still perfectly plausible to be under the 32MB stated for the Xbox360 GUI.

Couldn't WinCE be less intensive than that? Again, I wonder why they didn't implement it. Saving a few MBs of RAM doesn't seem like much, but it certainly can make differences.

[twistedsymphony]

QUOTE(throwingks @ Oct 11 2006, 12:21 PM)

^
Nice find.

In your link the OS is only taking ~3.3MB. That is substantially less than I thought. But, explorer.exe is not running. With the GUI(explorer.exe) running @ ~18MB - ~36MB. That is still perfectly plausible to be under the 32MB stated for the Xbox360 GUI.

Couldn't WinCE be less intensive than that? Again, I wonder why they didn't implement it. Saving a few MBs of RAM doesn't seem like much, but it certainly can make differences.

Correct me if I'm wrong but when playing a game you're not using the Xbox 360's GUI now are you?

I can understand it taking up more memory when you're in the dashboard but that wouldn't effect games because you're never running the games and the dashboard at the same time.

VERY nice link though thax...