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Author Topic: EU knocks Microsoft with 357usd million fine  (Read 200 times)

Trex666

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EU knocks Microsoft with 357usd million fine
« on: July 12, 2006, 08:58:00 AM »

ouch, but isnt that like pocket money to em?
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BasicAir

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EU knocks Microsoft with 357usd million fine
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2006, 09:12:00 AM »

NO, it is not like pocket money.

MS & Bill Gates are worth just under $100 billion last I checked. I've heard reports of $50 to 80 billion in the last year, that's why I say that.

One would be prone to saying that it is chump change then, but that's still not true. Recently, Gates' wife founded The Bill Gates Foundation donating a ton of their money to charity. Not to mention the fact that their "Home Entertainment" division, aka the Xbox division, has been losing money on consoles for Xbox and Xbox 360 for years and years at many billions of dollars.

MS is right -- The court orders appear to be very vague and non-specific enough to warrant a mandatory payment. MS will win this court battle whether we like it or not.

Also keep in mind that MS can always say "F-U" to the EU and just pull out of the entire European Market entirely. That would be a low blow and probably won't happen, but that's just one thing they could do.
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The Zep Man

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EU knocks Microsoft with 357usd million fine
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2006, 09:19:00 AM »

QUOTE(BasicAir @ Jul 12 2006, 05:19 PM) View Post

Also keep in mind that MS can always say "F-U" to the EU and just pull out of the entire European Market entirely. That would be a low blow and probably won't happen, but that's just one thing they could do.
Many people are always screaming this, but it will not happen. Instead, MS will raise the cost of all their products and services, but only for everyone in the EU. EULA's will cover this, so import will not be possible (and you wouldn't get any support that way either).
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dutch nelson

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EU knocks Microsoft with 357usd million fine
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2006, 09:32:00 AM »

idd kill for less  blink.gif

MS will just kill the jury and be happy
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BasicAir

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EU knocks Microsoft with 357usd million fine
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2006, 10:24:00 AM »

QUOTE(The Zep Man @ Jul 12 2006, 04:26 PM) View Post

Many people are always screaming this, but it will not happen. Instead, MS will raise the cost of all their products and services, but only for everyone in the EU. EULA's will cover this, so import will not be possible (and you wouldn't get any support that way either).


Right... I even said they probably wouldn't. I should have said most definately wouldn't but anyway.... My point is this: The EU is wasting their time with this and essentially shooting themselves in the foot. Don't get me wrong, I'm not supporting MS here, but just stating what I know and think.
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mat989

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EU knocks Microsoft with 357usd million fine
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2006, 10:35:00 AM »

QUOTE(BasicAir @ Jul 12 2006, 05:31 PM) View Post

Right... I even said they probably wouldn't. I should have said most definately wouldn't but anyway.... My point is this: The EU is wasting their time with this and essentially shooting themselves in the foot. Don't get me wrong, I'm not supporting MS here, but just stating what I know and think.


QUOTE
PRECEDENT

MS said it has made massive efforts to comply with the Commission's 2004 ruling and now has 300 people working to complete its package by an agreed deadline of July 18.

It called the fine unjustified, but said that will not slow its effort to comply. MS, which has appealed against every ruling against it so far by the Commission, said on Wednesday it will appeal against this decision too.

"We do not believe that any fine, let alone a fine of this magnitude, is appropriate given the lack of clarity in the Commission's original decision," said Brad Smith, the company's top lawyer, in a conference call.

But he said that MS remains totally committed to full compliance with the Commission's 2004 decision.

Kroes called the original order "crystal clear." It required interoperability information on reasonable and non-discriminatory terms.

The EU's second highest court is already reviewing an underlying challenge by MS to the original Commission decision, and conducted a hearing in April.

After years of investigation, the Commission found in 2004 that MS used the near-monopoly power of its Windows operating system to harm competitors making workgroup servers, which run printing and sign-on services in offices.

It ordered MS to give rivals the information needed so their servers could compete on a level playing field with MS's own by interconnecting smoothly with Windows.

It also found that MS harmed competitors by illegally bundling its Windows Media Player with the operating system, leaving consumers little incentive to buy rival software to watch films or listen to music.

The bundling issue poses concerns already voiced by Kroes about MS's next operating system, Vista, which could package Internet search functions or software that creates fixed documents and thus threaten Google and Adobe.

"The launch next year (of Vista) will hopefully be in a shape in which all those 2004 decision items are taken into account," Kroes said.

MS's Smith said the company had made "design changes" to Vista after Kroes wrote to the company in late March and that he expected feedback from the Commission soon.

Copyright 2006 Reuters


Yes, let the jerks pull out of europe....then EU will be the best place for Linux....

And BTW, read above, they will comply like a little kitten...
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herkulease

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EU knocks Microsoft with 357usd million fine
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2006, 12:40:00 PM »

QUOTE(BasicAir @ Jul 12 2006, 08:19 AM) View Post

NO, it is not like pocket money.

MS & Bill Gates are worth just under $100 billion last I checked. I've heard reports of $50 to 80 billion in the last year, that's why I say that.

One would be prone to saying that it is chump change then, but that's still not true. Recently, Gates' wife founded The Bill Gates Foundation donating a ton of their money to charity. Not to mention the fact that their "Home Entertainment" division, aka the Xbox division, has been losing money on consoles for Xbox and Xbox 360 for years and years at many billions of dollars.

MS is right -- The court orders appear to be very vague and non-specific enough to warrant a mandatory payment. MS will win this court battle whether we like it or not.

Also keep in mind that MS can always say "F-U" to the EU and just pull out of the entire European Market entirely. That would be a low blow and probably won't happen, but that's just one thing they could do.


When did you last check?

Bill Gates is currently worth is roughly 50 Billion. MS is worth nearly 230 billion. MS have some 30 billion dollars in cash on hand.  This fine will be pocket change, but no company wants to lose that kind of money in a day.

The Bill and Melinda Gates foundation was founded 6 years ago. Yes they plan on donating his money away but its not a big deal anyhow people have known this for years. He'll gain a few billions from dividends and from his yearly sale of MS stock.  

Indeed the Home Entertainment division is now pretty much the Xbox stuff, but has lost billions before with webtv and the ultimate tv projects. Xbox only added to that.

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mat989

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EU knocks Microsoft with 357usd million fine
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2006, 01:32:00 PM »

QUOTE(bobbler @ Jul 12 2006, 06:47 PM) View Post

EU will be the best place for Linux....in what way exactly? You expecting the millions of companies with money invested in training people up to be able to support the millions of end users, who not only dont actually give a toss about Linux but would probably rather learn how to walk all over again than end up spending half their working days trying to accomplish tasks that they where doing in 5 minutes previously? You're thinking they are gonna just dump that mass of aquired knowledge based on years of support the MS way to go with Linux? I personally dont see you Linux Utopia anytime soon.
Dont get me wrong, I am a great fan of Linux, but there is a lot more to think about than just lets format and reinstall here.
I just dont see Joan down in finance re-training to learn a new finance package on Linux because Sage isnt on it (there may actually be Sage for Linux, but you get the genral idea wink.gif ) after using it for 10+ years. Thats where your problem with unrooting MS lies. Its not the technology or the security or the bloat, its the deep rooted problem that people really dont like change.

As for the EU comission they should make their minds up really - I dont see how MS revealing its source code to competitors makes it a level playing field. So they arrive late to the party and find that Billy and crew have drank all the Buds then want Billy to buy some more? Sounds like you snooze you loose to me. LOL


Most of software producers are reluctant to port their products to Linux because of the limited number of Linux users. The other day I was in a forum and someone came asking why a company did not consider making a version of their software for MAC. This discussion was before the introduction of the MAC OSX. A representative of the company replied saying that they judge the interest in their products by the number of hits that their website gets, and among all the visitors, less than 1% were MAC users (detected by the safari browser and other MAC browsers I suppose) and he said, if more -like 10% of the visitors- were MAC users, we would consider porting our library (or some of it) to MAC. And he added that porting a software should not take more than 1 year (depends on how big the software is and how many are working on it).

Now, we have Win XP and many, many application running on it. So even if MS decided to pull out of EU, there will not be a sudden collapse to the IT in EU. People can use what exists at the moment, and wait for the most important software to be ported since the software makers will find more, and more Linux users interested in their products. The ported software will have the same GUI and functionality, so Joan will not require any further training.

So to be honest with you, I am eagerly awaiting the day when MS starts threatening to withdrawal from certain areas in the world, and in that case, the software makers will start planning to port their software to other operating systems anticipating more and more users.

BTW, did you hear that Adobe will finish porting its library to MAC OSX in 2008 -INTEL- smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif After that, what will stop them from tweaking the library to work on different Linux/Unix flavors??!!!!

http://www.adobe.com...lmacsupport.pdf
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Justincredibal

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EU knocks Microsoft with 357usd million fine
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2006, 02:01:00 PM »

The thing that pisses me off about the EU doing this, is they are demanding that MS unbundles WMP from Windows.

Total BS.

I suppose the EU does not have the same free market spirit as the US.

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sentinel0

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EU knocks Microsoft with 357usd million fine
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2006, 04:37:00 PM »

I think the EU are idiots if you want people to use another product other than wmp make a better product and give it away free if you want to make money add features that are attractive to users to buy.  Simple business this whole antitrust thing in the EU is a big fucking joke I wish MS would pull out it wont ever happen to much money to be made there but the people in the EU should be pissed that there union is fucking them.  I don't have a clue how the EU tax system works but how can the EU make money from these companies that make rival products of MS thats where the truth is the almighty green back or euro.
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ScHlAuChi

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EU knocks Microsoft with 357usd million fine
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2006, 06:15:00 PM »

All you people who say the EU is foolish are the actual fools.
This fine was not because of the bundling with WMP, it was because MSs competitiors wanted crucial documentation about protocols needed to develop software for windows - which MS did not offer to alot of developers. this was an easy way for MS to control the market abusing their monopoly.

And just because the US DOJ was stupid enough to let MS off the hook, does not mean that the EU has to be similar dumb. And finally, maybe im the only one, but a company who owns 230 Billion in money - far far far more than many many 3rd world countries - is incredibly sick. If you would understand eceonomy you would know that MS does not really have to "work" for this money, but someone else had to work for it. So MSs monopoly is removing "buying power" from the average consumer by constantly removing money  from the economic cycle.

Think of it that way - you have a limited amout of water in a pond, and a big sponge (MS) is sucking out all the water - leaving less and less for the millions of plankton (YOU).

Anyway - if you guys are STUPID enough not to understand that monopolys are ALWAYS bad for the consumer than im sorry.
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i800phyco

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EU knocks Microsoft with 357usd million fine
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2006, 06:55:00 PM »

QUOTE
Anyway - if you guys are STUPID enough not to understand that monopolys are ALWAYS bad for the consumer than im sorry.

I would not consider ms a monopoly, What about linix? or mac?
Comsumer's have other os's to use but they like windows.
For the goverment to step in and say "hey give us your soure code that you developed" is fucking socalism and that has never worked.
It would appear that the eu just dosent like the free market to me.
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Justincredibal

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EU knocks Microsoft with 357usd million fine
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2006, 07:14:00 PM »

QUOTE(Mol10 @ Jul 12 2006, 06:01 PM) View Post

Bundling WMP prevents competition and hence is not in the free market spirit. The EU is attempting to open up the a/v player market to competition.



No this is diffrent than the issue with MS Word because word was also forsale when it was bundled with Windows. Making them take out WMP would be like telling them they had to many features.

Either way, with either product being bundled, it is not hampering the entrepreneurial spirit. If company comes out with a beter media player, it will be downloaded and used over WMP. I know, atleast for myself, I rarely use WMP unless I can't get a media file to work with some other free MP's I use.

Sounds to me like your one to be favorable to unions where certain people are restriced to doing only certain things, creating tons of pointless jobs, and cash, for people who do not deserve them.

QUOTE(ScHlAuChi @ Jul 12 2006, 08:22 PM) View Post

All you people who say the EU is foolish are the actual fools.
This fine was not because of the bundling with WMP, it was because MSs competitiors wanted crucial documentation about protocols needed to develop software for windows - which MS did not offer to alot of developers. this was an easy way for MS to control the market abusing their monopoly.

And just because the US DOJ was stupid enough to let MS off the hook, does not mean that the EU has to be similar dumb. And finally, maybe im the only one, but a company who owns 230 Billion in money - far far far more than many many 3rd world countries - is incredibly sick. If you would understand eceonomy you would know that MS does not really have to "work" for this money, but someone else had to work for it. So MSs monopoly is removing "buying power" from the average consumer by constantly removing money  from the economic cycle.

Think of it that way - you have a limited amout of water in a pond, and a big sponge (MS) is sucking out all the water - leaving less and less for the millions of plankton (YOU).

Anyway - if you guys are STUPID enough not to understand that monopolys are ALWAYS bad for the consumer than im sorry.

To bad you do not know the true facts of this story.
MS was still in its bounds for giving the information to the developers. They had not steped outside the bounds that the judge had put forth.

Also, How can you be as foolish to say that MS does not have to work for their money, but rather, someoen else does? That has got to be the most idiotic illogical slander you have said.

If it was not for Bill Gates innovations, we probably would not even be talking as of now. Mac would most likely be the key technology, but ages behind.

When Bill Gates was fired from Apple, it created a chance for an opposition to the current technology so they could both grow from each other. You must rember that when windows was just being thought of, most people did not think computers would ever become more useful than performing mathematic calculations. Now ofcourse the developement of transistors, resistors, capacitors and dioeds made it possible for computrs to become compact and cheapier, it was not until windows was born that the consumer took true intrest in computers.

And to even sugest that this great development of MS is actually detramental to the economy is absurd.

Do you realise the money that not only companies, but everyday people save because they can accomplish tasks faster with windows?

And I don't need to say anything about your poor analogy.
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thewickedjester

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EU knocks Microsoft with 357usd million fine
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2006, 07:21:00 PM »

QUOTE(i800phyco @ Jul 12 2006, 09:02 PM) View Post

I would not consider ms a monopoly, What about linix? or mac?

From wikipedia: "Monopolies are characterized by a lack of economic competition for the good or service that they provide and a lack of viable substitute goods."
Is it a TRUE monopoly, no, but a quick rule of thumb for judging a monopoly is the ease that a new company has to enter into the market. Granted, we have Mac but they really dont hold that large of a market share, theres Linux, but again, thats even smaller and it technically doesnt hold a part of the economic 'market' unless you talk about RedHat. Then look at wether or not a startup company could make it? Mabye, but its slim. And the bolding is to put it this way, would you honestly consider, at the current day, Mac or Linux a true _competitor_ to MS? Or just a fly they are letting live kind of thign?

QUOTE

Comsumer's have other os's to use but they like windows.

You cant fault good logic, if people were really that irritated with Windows, why not switch? I know its easier said than done, but the true fault lies with the software developers, the only real reason I havent switched to Linux or Mac is lack of the applications I like, granted you can run them via emulators or porting, but I'd like something that runs native... And many people I talk to feel the same way, for every one with dual booting, whats a pretty big reason that keeps you from leaving MS in the dust? I may be a bit presumptuous saying this, but I'll bet its the apps that run on it...?

QUOTE

Anyway - if you guys are STUPID enough not to understand that monopolys are ALWAYS bad for the consumer than im sorry.

Were the stupid ones? With comments like THAT? Two words: Power Company. And if you dont know what I'm talking about... well... guess whos the stupid one? (PS: If it wasnt for the word, in caps I'd like to add, ALWAYS, I wouldnt have even thought of mentioning this)
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mat989

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EU knocks Microsoft with 357usd million fine
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2006, 08:21:00 AM »

QUOTE(Justincredibal @ Jul 13 2006, 02:21 AM) View Post

If it was not for Bill Gates innovations, we probably would not even be talking as of now. Mac would most likely be the key technology, but ages behind.


MAC is ages behind MS!!! Are you serious??? Did you even bother yourself to check what MAC offers??? Do you know anything about MAC at all??!!!  blink.gif  blink.gif

And to talk about bill gates innovations is clearly stupid. Whenever MS spots a good idea, they buy it, or make something similar -yet inferior- and bundle it with the stupid OS. Obviously, when you get something for free you will not buy the alternative even if it is better. Would you??
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