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Author Topic: Modchip Install Problem  (Read 102 times)

d00msday_jesus

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Modchip Install Problem
« on: April 04, 2007, 05:18:00 PM »

I'm in the process of installing a chip for someone and ran across a bit of a problem. I think my soldering looks pretty solid and i've gone over it multiple times.

It boots to MS dash without any problems at all.

The problem i'm having comes when i boot with the chip on. Theres no audio or video and it boots once, then turns off. Period. Its like the 3 boots at the beggining of a FRAG process, but stops everything after the one boot. Green PCB LED on the xbox.

Any ideas whats up?
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AfterTheInsanity

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Modchip Install Problem
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2007, 09:43:00 PM »

Long time no see.

What kind of chip, and what version motherboard to start off? It boots fine with the chip off, so that suggests that the traces are fine (otherwise it wouldnt boot at all), and it tries to boot with the chip on, so the D0 sounds fine, but I think your LPC points are off, if it doesnt load properly. v1.6 by any chance?
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d00msday_jesus

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Modchip Install Problem
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2007, 12:25:00 PM »

Haha, hey man. Long time no issues.

Yeah, 1.6 with an x3 ce.

I noticed I somehow knocked one of those tiny ass caps off right above "R7R4" inbetween LAD0 and D0. I'm assuming this doesnt have anything to do with it because it boots to M$, but i could be wrong.
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d00msday_jesus

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Modchip Install Problem
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2007, 02:41:00 PM »

oops, i meant to post this pic

IPB Image
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AfterTheInsanity

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Modchip Install Problem
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2007, 08:35:00 PM »

"I knocked off a resistor, but I dont know why it doesnt work"

See a problem here wink.gif You need to replace that resistor. You can either get an 0603 (I think) SMD version of it, and solder it back into place, or use a normal, 1/8w, 10k ohm resistor.

Here's why you need that resistor (thanks nB):
QUOTE
The LPC (Low Pin Count) interface is specifically designed for peripheral expansion (much like the PCI bus, of which it is a subset). Now, many of you are likely used to the digital electronics concept of a TTL driver, the chip drives a voltage out to represent a "1" and pulls the signal to ground to represent a "0". While this method works fine when you have one chip talking to another, or even when you have one chip talking to many, it doesn't work so well when more than one chip may try talking at the same time.

What happens when you have one chip try to drive a 0 and another trying to drive a 1 at the same time? A lot of current flows across what is essentially a short circuit and one of the two chips dies (if you're lucky). How then do you put multiple devices on a bus and guarantee that you will never have this happen? Add a bunch of control circuitry and address lines. But what if you don't have the pins available to add the control lines? What if your little PIC micro can't drive the complex circuitry required? There is a simple solution: take away the ability of the chips to drive a "1".

So now things get interesting. When you make all your devices "open collector" you have essentially removed the transistor that puts out a voltage to drive a 1, but left in place the transistor that pulls the line to ground in order to output a 0. In this situation if more than one device wants to talk the data may get corrupted, but no damage will occur and you can simply ask the device to re-transmit. At this point you may be asking: yeah, but how do I transmit if I cant drive a 1? Those resistors are the answer.

Each of the LAD lines (as is the SDA line of the I2C bus) are capable of being connected to many devices, all of which have an open collector. The little resistors are 10K ohm pull-up resistors, that is to say they pull the lines voltage up when no chip on the bus is trying to pull it low. While this approach limits your total signal speed (33MHz on the LPC), it vastly reduces interface overhead and makes simple data busses easy to implement on small controllers.

The I2C bus is another example: The PIC, EEPROM, Video Encoder, and some of the LCDs all connect to the I2C bus, again through the same open collector principal.

The reason you can not simply replace a damaged resistor with a blob of solder (as I have seen some suggest), is that were you to do this, your pull-up would effectively be trying to drive as much current as it could into any chip trying to drive the bus to a 0, and in most conditions result in damage to any chips connected (mod, MCPx).

Update: Apologies for a factual error in the piece above.  The LPC interface is not an open collector interface, it is a bi-directional interface requiring a turnaround where neither chip drives a signal, yet the bus must remain high.  The specifics about open collector still applies, however.  Thanks,
-nB
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d00msday_jesus

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Modchip Install Problem
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2007, 01:56:00 PM »

Alright man, i read through what you posted. So the resistor only effects the chip booting and not the MS booting because the chip just boots directly through the LPC?

And just replacing the resistor will for sure solve this problem?
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AfterTheInsanity

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Modchip Install Problem
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2007, 06:06:00 PM »

Right.

And if thats the only thing thats wrong, yes, replacing the resistor will fix it.
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d00msday_jesus

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« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2007, 12:31:00 PM »

I have limited internet acess here and its kind of important, otherwise i´d devote more time to looking for thism, but are you aware of any main stores that sell this?  Or do v 1.0´s also have it that i can borrow?
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AfterTheInsanity

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Modchip Install Problem
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2007, 01:56:00 PM »

Dont have a Radioshack nearby? If not, you can just get one of the little SMD resistors off a v1.0. There are three lined up on the top-side of the motherboard, along the LPC. One of them will work fine.

If you dont want to desolder and resolder one of them, use a standard 1/8w 10k resistor, solder 30awg wire to each lead, and attach the wire to the pads (you can get normal resistors from Radioshack and the like).
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d00msday_jesus

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Modchip Install Problem
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2007, 01:14:00 AM »

well I just did some breif very rushed online shopping and didnt see that they had 1/8w resistors. But thank you for the info on 1.0´s
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AfterTheInsanity

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Modchip Install Problem
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2007, 07:15:00 AM »

You can use 1/8w, 1/4w, 1/2w, 100000000w, its all the same. If you can find 1/4w, you can use them too, theyll just be slightly bigger than the 1/8w ones.
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d00msday_jesus

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Modchip Install Problem
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2007, 02:11:00 PM »

I'm back at home now with unlimited internet access, and this xbox. I soldered a new resistor on, but now I'm getting the standard fragging. I don't understand what the hell is causing this, because I can see the solder from the LPC rebuild making a solid joint to the D0.  uhh.gif  i just want this to work. haha.
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AfterTheInsanity

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Modchip Install Problem
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2007, 07:58:00 AM »

Disconnect the D0 from the chip? Does it still frag? The fragging indicates that its switching the D0 as it should, but there is a problem with the LPC connections/rebuild. Are you using a rebuild board? Try doing it by hand. I usually have better success with those.
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d00msday_jesus

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Modchip Install Problem
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2007, 08:33:00 AM »

When i unplugged the harness with the d0 in it, it didn't frag, just went straight to MS dash. And I'm using the rebuild board. This mean that its the LPC thats bad?
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AfterTheInsanity

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Modchip Install Problem
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2007, 09:29:00 AM »

Yeah. It means that some LPC wire isnt making a connection.
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