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[xmedia2003]

QUOTE(puckSR @ Jul 19 2006, 07:49 AM)

I have just spent the day being accosted by idiots who believe in the inerrancy of the bible.
Apparently the Bible is the "exact" words of "God".

How stupid does someone have to be to believe this kind of notion?
Besides the obvious fallacies and the errors in the bible, why do few of these people know how to speak Greek, Hebrew, or Aramaic?
If I believed that something was the "work of God", then I would sure as hell learn how to read it so that I could make sure that I grasped all of the subtle nuances of the original author's text.  I've heard that God made sure that the translators got all of the good stuff in there....but it just doesnt make sense.  Everyone knows that you lose a little bit in translation.  The words are not perfectly equivalent in certain situations.

So, why do all of these idiots still follow a movement that started during the 1850's?  
Biblical literalism is a rather new phenomenom.  While medievel catholics might have believed the bible to be divine, the church did this more for political reasons than practical reasons.
Even the protestant reformation was lacking in this obsessive "inerrant" bible.
So, why do we still listen to this crap?

Your logic is genius.

You discredit a book, the bible, because it is written by man, in favor of another book written by a man.

Pure Genius.

[TheSchonk]

QUOTE(puckSR @ Sep 25 2006, 03:35 PM)

So what if the bible is a lot of myth and bullshit thrown on top of a bit of fact?
Then it just means that maybe you shouldnt hold it as the "absolute word of God"....
Jesus could have still died for your sins, and all of the stories "could" be true....
But when you accept the possibility that you could be wrong...then you curb all of the evil of a belief.

Well I believe if god can create the universe and everything in it, then he can make a book accurate enough to give truth. If there is someone that god called to write or translate one of the books and they decided to fabricate truth, then god would just call someone else to do it. One thing I do agree with you is if you dont believe one thing in the bible then your better off not believeing any of it..... All I know is god loves each and everyone of you, more than you can imagine and I pray that you will accept him.

[throwingks]

QUOTE(TheSchonk @ Sep 25 2006, 11:59 PM)

One thing I do agree with you is if you dont believe one thing in the bible then your better off not believeing any of it.....

Why isn't Jesus named Emmanuel?
http://www.biblegate...rch=Isaiah 7:14
http://www.messiahtr...com/is714a.html

[TheSchonk]

QUOTE(throwingks @ Sep 26 2006, 07:27 AM)

^
Thank you for caring. But, would you be offended, since I was raised Jewish, if I asked you to give up Jesus because he isn't the Messiah?

 You can ask all you want but I wont change my mind or get offended.

QUOTE(throwingks @ Sep 26 2006, 07:27 AM)

Why isn't Jesus named Emmanuel?

Emmanuel means "god with us" and all he was saying is god will be encarted in human form(jesus). Also jesus is known by many names: God,Emmanuel,The Holy one, Lord, Father, Messiah..... And throughout the bible god gave people diffrent names when they came to the light.

[throwingks]

QUOTE(TheSchonk @ Sep 26 2006, 12:51 PM)

You can ask all you want but I wont change my mind or get offended.

Just feeling you out.

QUOTE(TheSchonk @ Sep 26 2006, 12:51 PM)

Emmanuel means "god with us" and all he was saying is god will be encarted in human form(jesus). Also jesus is known by many names: God,Emmanuel,The Holy one, Lord, Father, Messiah..... And throughout the bible god gave people diffrent names when they came to the light.

I am aware, that names had meanings back then. People cannot identify with that because that is not the way it is anymore.
The Hebrew language is made of words, letters and numbers having meaning and used not only as a sound but also a definition. The Messiahs name and definition would be "God With Us". One in the same. Not his nickname. His real name.

My Hebrew name is Schlomo Benyamin Ben Rueben.

Ben Rueben means Son of Reuben, but it is also my name. Both meanings as one.

In Hebrew A means 1 B means 2 and so on.
Father = Ab (Alef Beit) = 1 + 2 = 3
Mother = Em (Alef Mem) = 1 + 40 = 41
Child = Yaled (Yud Lamed Dalet) = 10 + 30 + 4 = 44
44 = Ab + Em = Yaled
http://www.inner.org...ia/gemchart.htm

Emmanuel means God With Us, but it is also a name. Both meanings as one.

Were you saying after Emmanuel came to the light his name changed to Jesus? I thought he always had the light? I don't understand that part.

I have never heard of Jesus referred to as Emmanuel other than in this specific type of discussion. In order to fulfill that particular prophecy.

[TheSchonk]

QUOTE(puckSR @ Sep 26 2006, 02:12 PM)

He could...but that is very different from "He did"...
This is assuming:
1.  God did call someone to write/translate
2.  God would stop them from "messing with it".

i.e.  Mohammed claimed that God called him to write a book.  Joseph Smith said God called him to write a book, etc.  Obviously God will allow people to lie.  He will also allow them to lie when they claim they "divine inspiration".

So...if we know people are allowed to lie....and we know that God has allowed them lie about his "divine inspiration" for a piece of scripture(the torah, Quran, and Book of Mormon cannot all be true).....
Then you are either assuming a priori(beforehand and without facts in support of your position) that God asked someone to write the book....
Or your making a horrible argument with several invalid assumptions.
Ummm...actually I made the opposite argument.
I argue that you SHOULD be able to disbelieve a single particular passage, but still take away the greater meaning of the text.

If you read the bible you will realize that god is loving, just and holy. Part of being just is giving free will. And free will gives the choice to lie, to steal, to kill... To choose good or evil. Also part of being just is to not let any wrong go unpunished. So those people that did lie in the name of god will spend eternity in hell, unless they ask jesus for forgiveness and repent.

QUOTE(puckSR @ Sep 26 2006, 02:12 PM)

He could...but that is very different from "He did"...

Thats where the word FAITH comes in.
Ephesians 2:8- For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

QUOTE(throwingks @ Sep 26 2006, 03:41 PM)

Just feeling you out. I am aware, that names had meanings back then. People cannot identify with that because that is not the way it is anymore.
The Hebrew language is made of words, letters and numbers having meaning and used not only as a sound but also a definition. The Messiahs name and definition would be "God With Us". One in the same. Not his nickname. His real name.

My Hebrew name is Schlomo Benyamin Ben Rueben.

Ben Rueben means Son of Reuben, but it is also my name. Both meanings as one.

In Hebrew A means 1 B means 2 and so on.
Father = Ab (Alef Beit) = 1 + 2 = 3
Mother = Em (Alef Mem) = 1 + 40 = 41
Child = Yaled (Yud Lamed Dalet) = 10 + 30 + 4 = 44
44 = Ab + Em = Yaled
http://www.inner.org...ia/gemchart.htm

Emmanuel means God With Us, but it is also a name. Both meanings as one.

Were you saying after Emmanuel came to the light his name changed to Jesus? I thought he always had the light? I don't understand that part.

I have never heard of Jesus referred to as Emmanuel other than in this specific type of discussion. In order to fulfill that particular prophecy.

No, I was just giving you examples of some people who's names were changed by god through out the bible.

This will explain it better:
Jesus or Emmanuel?

[throwingks]

QUOTE(TheSchonk @ Sep 26 2006, 11:47 PM)

Thats where the word FAITH comes in.
Ephesians 2:8- For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
No, I was just giving you examples of some people who's names were changed by god through out the bible.

This will explain it better:
Jesus or Emmanuel?

All the references to back up your link are from the New Testament. Never once in the Old Testament does it say Jesus is Emmanuel. I do not believe in the New Testament. This is only more reason for me not to. You cannot rewrite prochecy to make it fit your needs.

This will explain my point better:
http://www.factology...ve/20041009.htm

[TheSchonk]

"It is at this point Matthew uses the idea of "Immanuel" a second time in his Gospel, not as a name for Jesus but as a confession of the nature of God as revealed in Jesus who is the Christ. He assures them of his continuing presence in the church: "I will be with you always." In other words, Matthew has not only linked the affirmation of God’s presence with the people in the crisis of Isaiah to the Incarnation (1:23), he has also linked the mission of the church not only backward to the Incarnation but also forward to the ongoing presence of God with the church (28:20).

Matthew’s message is this: the same God that has always been with his people throughout their history, and who has revealed himself as present in the world in Jesus the Christ, will continue to be present with the church as it carries out its commission of incorporating all people into the present and coming Kingdom of God! And he communicates that message by drawing on Old Testament theological ideas in a quotation from Isaiah 7:14.  I’d say that is a rather masterful use of the Old Testament for theological confession!"


I guess will all find out one day.

[PhatIrishBastard]

QUOTE(TheSchonk @ Sep 24 2006, 09:46 PM)

Exodus 20:13- You must not murder.

Genesis 2:18, 24- And the LORD God said, "It is not good that man should be alone; I will make a helper comparable to him."
                          Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Exodus 20:14- You must not commit adultery

God created adam and eve, not adam and steve!
 The creation of you and me, the creation of this earth and everthing on it for you and me, the many people that jesus healed and last but not least, the sacrifice of our lord and savior jesus christ who came down hear and died for all of us, and all he asked is for us to believe in and except his death so he could forgive us of our sins.

@TheSchonk
Funny, you seem to be the only one actually reffering to biblical text in this entire thread about "the bible"

But why am I not surprised, its the norm. Ever thread these days seems to break down into the personal agendas of its author.

Chew on this:

QUOTE

Revelation 14:8
"Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great, which made all the nations drink the maddening wine of her adulteries."

QUOTE

Revelation 16:19The great city split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed. God remembered Babylon the Great and gave her the cup filled with the wine of the fury of his wrath.

Babylon, would be present day Iraq. "split into three" Sunni, Shia, Kurd. These events are quite compelling given christians believe it will be the antichrist who will lead this assault.

What is even more interesting is the story of the two witnessess who will prophecize prior to both advents of christ.

John the Baptist was the reincarnation of the first saint of Genesis.

I have heard some interesting stories of the identity of the 2nd witness, who must find death prior to return of christ.

QUOTE

Revelation 11
And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth."

QUOTE

Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them. Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city, which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified. For three and a half days men from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial. The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.

Does that soung like anyone you know in the news?

[PhatIrishBastard]

QUOTE(puckSR @ Sep 27 2006, 09:58 PM)

Not really....
But I am sure you can twist it.....

Hmm....I seem to remember people doing this for Nostradamus too....
Also...isnt there an entire field of fraud based on making vague predictions and then grossly reinterpreting real events to make them "fit"?

Oh yeah...its called psychics.....

BTW...Why would i be quoting the bible....my entire argument is against the bible.
I am claiming that there are several different versions, with differing texts...
That the books were written by unknown authors and that the selection process was based on popularity and politics....
So why would I quote from that to make a point?
The only people who would quote from the bible are nutjobs who believe in Fundamentalism....
Looks like we just found another one....

Take your insane religious babble over to the middle east....They have a whole lot of people like you.  You can all run around and kill each other "in the name of God"....and then the rest of us can get back to normal.

Your arguements are always so deeply rooted in emotion with little basis in logic.

Nastradamus, give me a break, you obviously havent read much of his ramblings in great detail, you need a little whacky tobaccy to put together the dots to form anything cohorent let alone truth.

QUOTE(puckSR @ Sep 27 2006, 09:58 PM)

BTW...Why would i be quoting the bible....my entire argument is against the bible.
I am claiming that there are several different versions, with differing texts...
That the books were written by unknown authors and that the selection process was based on popularity and politics....

I could challenge relativity, or gravity but not qouting anything in particular from these particular texts seems, like you dont know what you are talking about as well as not being familiar with the topic at hand.

There are different version of physics, classsical, relativstic, and quantam to name a few does each interpretation invalidate the other.

QUOTE(puckSR @ Sep 27 2006, 09:58 PM)

Take your insane religious babble over to the middle east....They have a whole lot of people like you.  You can all run around and kill each other "in the name of God"....and then the rest of us can get back to normal.

You kind of come off more as a potential personality cult more than any other (except the Raelian f*ck), but you are a close second.

Physical science is fairly infantile in comparison to the christian bible, you havent demonstrated any understanding of physics beyond googling topics.

Why would any sane person permit you any lattitude with respect to a text several thousands of years old.

Because you "think" you can demonstrate minor discrepancies in the details of a book that provides a generic overview of history.

Do you speak Aramaic? If not a purist would argue you havent read the bible only a fascimile.

Which is your grandious postulation. DUH, no shit SHERLOK.

P.S.

Maybe its coincidence (or my imagination) that the gentile nations invaded and have destroyed Babylon as foretold in the Bible.

[PhatIrishBastard]

QUOTE(puckSR @ Sep 28 2006, 11:54 AM)

The different versions of the bible actually exhibit CONFLICT.

Conflict or contradict.  Not to mention the pedigree of your sources. (just like your lead to gold BS)

I agree with you only a nutjob would argue the hidden meanings of religous parable. Congratulations.

QUOTE(puckSR @ Sep 28 2006, 11:54 AM)

Here are some good textual criticisms of the passage
Textual Criticism
Site dedicated to the topic

The problem IrishBastard is that you will not bother to read either of those....
Besides it seems more like you want me to quote directly from the bible...to dispute the bible?
Maybe...but my logical argument is thus.
The similarities between the passages you quote and what is currently happening in the middle east is vague at best.  It relies on interpreting it in a certain way.
My example of this being done with an obviously false prophecy was Nostradmus.

No the problem is that I will not categorically endorse your misguided manifesto's.

Is this the official interpretation of the christian church, NOPE becuase they probably dont agree thats why there are so many splinter factions amongst christian church.

QUOTE(puckSR @ Sep 28 2006, 11:54 AM)

I could make several other logical arguments about the nature of the book your quoting....but I doubt any of that would make it through your rather thick skull.
Really...and how exactly would i demonstrate knowledge?
I believe I remember trying to explain to some very stupid young men the difference between force and inertia.
Force is not an intrinsic property.  Something does not "have" force, but rather exherts it.
I then remember one of those two idiots posting a page from NASA.  The page contained several equations and contained the word inertia....
This particular idiot ignored the fact that the equations being used were all based around Force.
Now...I realized that...that idiot didnt.

So...who displays a complete ignorance of the subject matter with his inane googling and glancing over webpages?

BTW...physical science is fairly infantile?
Hmm...thats kinda funny...since I believe that everyone will agree that physical laws have existed since this reality was created.....yet your "christian bible" was only completed about 1500 years ago.
Ummm...what would my SPEAKING Aramaic have to do with my READING of Greek and Hebrew?
Do you believe that the bible was originally written in Aramaic?
That might be an interesting discussion

First off it was momentum not inertia that jha introduced to you. I thought ever college went through the rocket problem guess I was mistaken.

But the fact of the matter, you never posted any mathematical development  of any object based upon a force diagrahm when asked to.  You always changed the scope of question to match a googled example.

Neither you or Lordvader, could come to the correct answer on the rocket problem, not a very difficult problem at all. (yours and his answer contradicted each others)  
 

QUOTE(puckSR @ Sep 28 2006, 11:54 AM)

BTW...physical science is fairly infantile?
Hmm...thats kinda funny...since I believe that everyone will agree that physical laws have existed since this reality was created.....yet your "christian bible" was only completed about 1500 years ago.
Ummm...what would my SPEAKING Aramaic have to do with my READING of Greek and Hebrew?
Do you believe that the bible was originally written in Aramaic?
That might be an interesting discussion

Second, modern (classical) physics (science), not there manisfistation, is only a few hundred years old.  The old testament as I remember was written in Aramaic. Old testament events are several thousand years old, like exodus, pyramids and the like.  You know there is an extensive world history prior to Paul and the gentiles/greeks discovery of the middle east.
(So you can understand gravity has always been here, our understanding of gravity is infantile)

QUOTE(puckSR @ Sep 28 2006, 11:54 AM)

Really...and how exactly would i demonstrate knowledge?

You demonstrate knowledge and understanding by being able to articulate and explain verbally and mathematically a concept.

QUOTE(puckSR @ Sep 28 2006, 11:54 AM)

I believe I remember trying to explain to some very stupid young men the difference between force and inertia.
Force is not an intrinsic property.  Something does not "have" force, but rather exherts it.
I then remember one of those two idiots posting a page from NASA.  The page contained several equations and contained the word inertia....
This particular idiot ignored the fact that the equations being used were all based around Force.
Now...I realized that...that idiot didnt.

So...who displays a complete ignorance of the subject matter with his inane googling and glancing over webpages?

I dont believe that you still get it, you say you do but cant demonstrate understanding. I will ask you like jha did express the mathematical force balance equation for a rocket(moving at a constant velocity) that strikes a solid object.

Its alright if you go ask someone at school that really knows.  

QUOTE(puckSR @ Sep 28 2006, 11:54 AM)

Force is not an intrinsic property.   Something does not "have" force, but rather exherts it.

Back to semantics I see.  

QUOTE(puckSR @ Sep 28 2006, 11:54 AM)

The similarities between the passages you quote and what is currently happening in the middle east is vague at best.  It relies on interpreting it in a certain way.
My example of this being done with an obviously false prophecy was Nostradmus.

The bible says tht the gentiles(remnants of the roman empire) will lay babylon(Iraq) to ruin. In very simplistic language, is this statement incorrect.

Or is it just one hell of a coincidence.

The only thing Nastradamus has said to be true is that there will be wars. WOW!!!!!  I cant belieeve you even bring that fraud up in an intelligent conversation.  

[jha'dhur]

QUOTE(puckSR @ Sep 29 2006, 01:50 PM)

That is NOT the question that jha asked me and you damn well know it.
Jha's question was...how much force does a rocket travelling at constant velocity have?....
he then went back and tried to "prove me wrong" by claiming that 0 was not an appropriate number....even though the net force is 0 for an object moving at constant velocity.
He then argued against this by claiming a variable mass(because of fuel burn)...which does change the math a little...but the principle remains the same.
On several occasions both me and LordVader posted CORRECT answer...depending on exactly what question your retarded friend was asking at the moment.

F(rocket)=-F(object) upon impact.
the force is exherted when the rocket strikes the solid object.
I do not doubt your understanding of the subject matter....
we could complicate this equation by calculating several other forces acting upon normal objects...or by assuming a non-constant mass for the rocket.
The force balance equation however will always be what i stated.
The solid object must exhert a force equal to the force exherted by the rocket in the inverse vector direction of the force exherted by the rocket...

For some reason, I remeber you stating that you were an engineer.

I know I read something to the effect of you having a physics degree.

QUOTE

express the mathematical force balance equation for a rocket(moving at a constant velocity) that strikes a solid object.

QUOTE

F(rocket)=-F(object) upon impact.

Please tell, that this isnt your final answer.  

Derive the force balance equations for the rocket, dont just describe the millisecond it strikes the object.

You spent 30 minutes indoctrinating us on your opinion, and 1 min on real science.

QUOTE(puckSR @ Sep 29 2006, 01:50 PM)

On several occasions both me and LordVader posted CORRECT answer...depending on exactly what question your retarded friend was asking at the moment.

Vaders answers were even more far fetched than yours.

QUOTE(puckSR @ Sep 29 2006, 01:50 PM)

Umm...as far as i remember NOTHING was written in Aramaic....
The "old testament" was written in Hebrew.

The only thing true in your post.

QUOTE

One of a non-Jewish nation; one neither a Jew nor a Christian; a worshiper of false gods; a heathen.

QUOTE

Denoting a race or country; as, a gentile noun or adjective.

QUOTE

Christian translators of the Bible use this word in the meaning of non-Israelite, to collectively designate the peoples and nations distinct from the Israelite people; the word is used that way over 130 times in the King James Version of the Bible. In the New Testament the word is used more specifically to indicate non-Jews.

In other words the gentile nations that translated the bible into their perspective languages tried to remove this negative connotation.

I have read thistypical gentile spin, you are reffering to. The first interpretations for KJV equate greek = gentile, just that simple. The spinsters have made great strides to remove essentially a racial slur or change its meaning.

Perhaps this pertains more to the title of this thread more than anything but a study of how the word is used will shed the true meaning. None of the other empires that persecuted the 12 tribes were denoted with this term.

Is this word used in the old testament to describe the multitudes of nonIsrealites?

P.S. They just found another old dead broad in Nubia(Ethiopia).

[throwingks]

QUOTE(puckSR @ Oct 1 2006, 06:14 PM)

I am an engineer...I do not have a degree in physics.  Engineering is applied physics.  
Mathematics and engineering.....

Not trying to be a smartass, what is your field?

[jha'dhur]

QUOTE(puckSR @ Oct 1 2006, 05:14 PM)

I am an engineer...I do not have a degree in physics.  Engineering is applied physics.  
Mathematics and engineering.....
The force balance for the rocket?
That's the force balance equation for a rocket that strikes a solid object.

You didnt ask the question...but once again your bringing up your ignorance jha.
You want me to assume all sorts of alternative forces acting on the rocket.  You want me to assume all sorts of "real-world" action taking place.

However....none of those extras were mentioned in the question.
It is still sad...jha'dhur...you cannot believe that a constant mass travelling at constant velocity has a net force =0..

A.T.F.Q.

[puckSR]

this is just getting silly....

But...once again...take my photo down please...its in violation of copyright to post it without permission on this site.