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[BCfosheezy]

QUOTE(pug_ster @ Jul 27 2006, 10:35 AM)

I have proved my point, you said earlier that there are no similiarities this incident and WWI. And now you said that there is a similiarity. Therefore, you are contradicting yourself. Before you say my argument is 'invalid and laughable', you might think about what you said.

I'm not contradicting myself. "triggering" an event hardly classifies as a similarity. If you're going to use that logic then your last post is the same as attacking another country because it "triggered" my response. That's why it's invalid and laughable.

QUOTE

Like I said, the UN does not go in guns first. You expect countries bickering each other before they all agree on a 'unilaterial response.'

Make a complete thought so it's easier to know what you mean. At any rate, sure trying to reach a solution peacefully is the best option, but after you've exhausted that and people are not cooperating and your goals are not being met you have to make it happen. If that results in the use of military action then so be it. The U.N. has that capability but will NEVER use it even when there are no more options and it's obvious they cannot achieve their goals any other way.

QUOTE

Even if Hezbollah is arming along the southern border, Israel didn't have to bomb Lebanon civilian infrastructure.

Agreed. I don't know why they did and it seems to not make sense. That's probably because we don't know their reasoning. I'm sure they had one, depending on what that is we can make an intelligent decision.

QUOTE

Well, you can believe what Bush's propaganda that Iraq is a stable country and 'democration' of the middle east all you want. And here's the article about the amount of deaths in Iraq.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13952922/

 

I never said nor did Bush that Iraq was a stable democracy. Not once has anyone said that. If you think they did then you are misinformed. I will restate what I said in my previous post that it takes time. Even the U.S. did not just whip up some documents and live happily ever after.

 

I will quote you here "Give the situation today, US had 'good' intentions of making Iraq stable but now it is on the verge of a civil war where 100+ people died each day due to violence."

For you to be able to make this claim it would have to at least be commonplace for 100 people to die each day there. A report with numbers like that do not exist because it is false. Then you provided a document that shows that last week insurgents kicked it up a notch. They do that every time an election is going to be held or any time some ground is being made. Get used to it. They are not going to win. Your article did not, however back up the numbers I requested you provide. They said nothing of the sort.

[BCfosheezy]

QUOTE(Arvarden @ Jul 27 2006, 10:46 AM)

"Hezbollah attacked Israel after Israel had complied"

Hezbollah attacked Israel first?

The kidnapping of a Israeli soldier and the killing of two others happened only after the Israeli Navy fired a shell on the beach of Gaza killing an entire family. This is one of the many reasons why we are seeing this conflict escalate out of control.

BtW The 60+ UN resolutions Israel has broken is not speculation.

 

All the news articles AND hezbollah's requests indicate nothing of the sort.

http://www.haaretz.c...ges/737634.html

 

"Eight Israel Defense Forces soldiers were killed and two others were abducted Wednesday in attacks by guerillas from the militant Hezbollah organization.

Hezbollah leader Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah said Wednesday evening that a prisoner exchange was the only way to secure the release of the soldiers, who he said were being held in a "secure and remote" location. "

 

If they were simply retaliating for a family being killed then why are they so concerned about a trade for their prisoners? BTW what are these prisoner's names and when were they captured?

 

Also, if the 60+ is not speculation why have you not provided a source yet?

[jha'dhur]

QUOTE(BCfosheezy @ Jul 27 2006, 12:12 PM)

I will quote you here "Give the situation today, US had 'good' intentions of making Iraq stable but now it is on the verge of a civil war where 100+ people died each day due to violence."

For you to be able to make this claim it would have to at least be commonplace for 100 people to die each day there. A report with numbers like that do not exist because it is false. Then you provided a document that shows that last week insurgents kicked it up a notch. They do that every time an election is going to be held or any time some ground is being made. Get used to it. They are not going to win. Your article did not, however back up the numbers I requested you provide. They said nothing of the sort.

http://www.iraqbodycount.net/database/
Totals

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Reported Minimum
39460

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Reported Maximum  
 43927

100 people a week is probably a fair accessment, this site has totals through 1st week of JULY and an excess of 100 civilians lost their lives during that time period.

The more important stat is the 2568 U.S. serviceman killed.

[pug_ster]

QUOTE(BCfosheezy @ Jul 27 2006, 05:12 PM)

I will quote you here "Give the situation today, US had 'good' intentions of making Iraq stable but now it is on the verge of a civil war where 100+ people died each day due to violence."

For you to be able to make this claim it would have to at least be commonplace for 100 people to die each day there. A report with numbers like that do not exist because it is false. Then you provided a document that shows that last week insurgents kicked it up a notch. They do that every time an election is going to be held or any time some ground is being made. Get used to it. They are not going to win. Your article did not, however back up the numbers I requested you provide. They said nothing of the sort.

FYI, somewhere 'deep' inside the msnbc article.

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The United Nations said this week that about 6,000 civilians were killed in May and June, many of them in sectarian violence.

http://select.nytime...DAE0894DE404482

For people who didn't read between the lines, read the headline, nuff said.

[BCfosheezy]

QUOTE(Arvarden @ Jul 27 2006, 05:00 PM)

"Cpl Shalit was abducted when Palestinian militant groups launched a surprise joint assault on an Israeli army position at Kerem Shalom, just outside the Gaza Strip.

Two soldiers were killed in the attack, and Cpl Shalit was seized and taken back into Gaza." BBC NEWS



Please re read what I typed, please take note of "This is one of the many reasons why we are seeing this conflict escalate out of control."



I don't need to it's common knowledge, check out the archives at the UN.

 

Lol it's common knowledge that Israel complied in almost every respect. You DO have to provide sources to prove a point. Simply saying you're right doesn't count in grown up discussions.

 

You still never showed a link to where I could read about the Israeli beach shelling. I can't find anything on it and want to know more.... and what happened BEFORE that as well.

[pug_ster]

BCfosheezy, again you always demanded others to show proof of what they said and yet you can't even back up what you said.  So put up or shut up.

[BCfosheezy]

QUOTE(pug_ster @ Jul 27 2006, 08:27 PM)

BCfosheezy, again you always demanded others to show proof of what they said and yet you can't even back up what you said. So put up or shut up.

I did.... why don't you try reading before you run your mouth?

[pug_ster]

You did what?  All you did is making an essay why the other person was dumb because he has no proof.  When that person did show proof, the only person who sticks his foot in his mouth is you because you didn't bother to do any research to contradict otherwise.

[PhatIrishBastard]

BCfosheezy big on mouth, small on proof, what else is new.

We use to call people like you masters of the obvious....

[melon]

QUOTE(BCfosheezy @ Jul 17 2006, 06:23 PM)

Nowhere in your incoherent ramblings did it EVER have anything to do with what I've said in this thread or the topic. You've now made yourself and now Jha'dhur look dumber by even siding with him. Please do take your own advice and ignore me because you also are not intelligent enough to have a conversation with. Now... where's that ignore option..... AH here it is.

hahaha you lionel  

you give out abuse preaching how right you are and everyone else is wrong... someone stand upto you and you threw a hissy fit like a bitch. shut up you big woman hahaha. running to the ignore button. cant you face not getting your own way? your a pussy lol.

[PhatIrishBastard]

QUOTE(Arvarden @ Jul 27 2006, 09:46 AM)

"Hezbollah attacked Israel after Israel had complied"

Hezbollah attacked Israel first?

The kidnapping of a Israeli soldier and the killing of two others happened only after the Israeli Navy fired a shell on the beach of Gaza killing an entire family.  This is one of the many reasons why we are seeing this conflict escalate out of control.

BtW The 60+ UN resolutions Israel has broken is not speculation.

QUOTE

#1 Resolution 252 (1968) Israel
Urgently calls upon Israel to rescind measures that change the legal status of Jerusalem, including the expropriation of land and properties thereon.

#2 262 (1968) Israel
Calls upon Israel to pay compensation to Lebanon for destruction of airliners at Beirut International Airport.

#3 267 (1969) Israel
Urgently calls upon Israel to rescind measures seeking to change the legal status of occupied East Jerusalem.

#4 271 (1969) Israel
Reiterates calls to rescind measures seeking to change the legal status of occupied East Jerusalem and calls on Israel to scrupulously abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention regarding the responsibilities of occupying powers.

#5 298 (1971) Israel
Reiterates demand that Israel rescind measures seeking to change the legal status of occupied East Jerusalem.

#6 446 (1979) Israel
Calls upon Israel to scrupulously abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention regarding the responsibilities of occupying powers, to rescind previous measures that violate these relevant provisions, and "in particular, not to transport parts of its civilian population into the occupied Arab territories."

#7 452 (1979) Israel
Calls on the government of Israel to cease, on an urgent basis, the establishment, construction, and planning of settlements in the Arab territories, occupied since 1967, including Jerusalem.

#8 465 (1980) Israel
Reiterates previous resolutions on Israel's settlements policy.

#9 471 (1980) Israel
Demands prosecution of those involved in assassination attempts of West Bank leaders and compensation for damages; reiterates demands to abide by Fourth Geneva Convention.

#10 484 (1980) Israel
Reiterates request that Israel abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.

#11 487 (1981) Israel
Calls upon Israel to place its nuclear facilities under the safeguard of the UN's International Atomic Energy Agency.

#12 497 (1981) Israel
Demands that Israel rescind its decision to impose its domestic laws in the occupied Syrian Golan region.


#13 573 (1985) Israel
Calls on Israel to pay compensation for human and material losses from its attack against Tunisia and to refrain from all such attacks or threats of attacks against other nations.

#14 592 (1986) Israel
Insists Israel abide by the Fourth Geneva Conventions in East Jerusalem and other occupied territories.

#15 605 (1987) Israel
"Calls once more upon Israel, the occupying Power, to abide immediately and scrupulously by the Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Times of War, and to desist forthwith from its policies and practices that are in violations of the provisions of the Convention."

#16 607 (1986) Israel
Reiterates calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention and to cease its practice of deportations from occupied Arab territories.

#17 608 (1988) Israel
Reiterates call for Israel to cease its deportations.

#18 636 (1989) Israel
Reiterates call for Israel to cease its deportations.

#19 641 (1989) Israel
Reiterates previous resolutions calling on Israel to desist in its deportations.

#20 672 (1990) Israel
Reiterates calls for Israel to abide by provisions of the Fourth Geneva Convention in the occupied Arab territories.

#21 673 (1990) Israel
Insists that Israel come into compliance with resolution 672.

#22 681 (1990) Israel
Reiterates call on Israel to abide by Fourth Geneva Convention in the occupied Arab territories.

#23 726 (1992) Israel
Reiterates calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention and to cease its practice of deportations from occupied Arab territories.

#24 799 (1992) Israel
"Reaffirms applicability of Fourth Geneva Convention…to all Palestinian territories occupied by Israel since 1967, including Jerusalem, and affirms that deportation of civilians constitutes a contravention of its obligations under the Convention."

#25 904 (1994) Israel
Calls upon Israel, as the occupying power, "to take and implement measures, inter alia, confiscation of arms, with the aim of preventing illegal acts of violence by settlers."

#26 1073 (1996) Israel
"Calls on the safety and security of Palestinian civilians to be ensured."


#27 1322 (2000) Israel
Calls upon Israel to scrupulously abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention regarding the responsibilities of occupying power.

#28 1402 (2002) Israel
Calls for Israel to withdraw from Palestinian cities.

#29 1403 (2002) Israel
Demands that Israel go through with "the implementation of its resolution 1402, without delay."

#30 1405 (2002) Israel
Calls for UN inspectors to investigate civilian deaths during an Israeli assault on the Jenin refugee camp.

#31 1435 (2002) Israel
Calls on Israel to withdraw to positions of September 2000 and end its military activities in and around Ramallah, including the destruction of security and civilian infrastructure.

31 to be exact

[pug_ster]

Even after Israel bombed a bomb shelter killing dozens of Women and Children, the US and Israel wants a 'long term solution' to disarm Hezbollah.    Israel is fighting a war against the Hezbollah that can't be won so why continue on with the unnecessary bloodshed of innocent people?  Like I said earlier, people in Israel start to waking up and wonder why are they in this kind of conflict in the first place (IE the 2 kidnapped soldiers.)

[pug_ster]

http://www.cbsnews.c...in1890406.shtml

This war is not really about the 2 kiddnapped soldiers.  The 'ceasefire' has no deal about the 2 kiddnapped soldiers.  The white house has been pushing Israel to get rid of Hezbollah but they just needed an excuse.