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[lordvader129]

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The Pod:

considering the focus of this thread is Loose Change it should be noted those boys still think the AA paint job is a missile pod

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No Stand-Down Order:

with military budgets dropping since the fall of the soviet union this doesnt seem odd, besides, when was the last time we were attacked by a military on our home soil?

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Intercepts Not Routine:

ive often wondered why people bring this up, what are interceptors supposed to do with a commercial jet in flight?

ask it to land? we can do that from the ground
board the plane? this isnt a movie, people dont jump from one plane to another in midair
shoot it down? right, and i suppose this would have caused less controversy

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Widespread Damage:

well if the jet fuel go into the elevator shafts then that would mean they arent airtight anymore, right? its very easy to imagine th eplane punched a hole int he elevator shaft allowing the fuel to spill down and ar to be drawn from the home (essentially it would turn an otherwise airtight shaft into a nice forge...which BTW is what is used to melt steel)

besides, who ever heard of an airtight elevator shaft anyway? wouldnt it be kinda tough for the folks in the elevators to breathe?

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"Melted" Steel:

now show pictures of every other spot in the building that may or may not have been on fire

as far as the fire cheif, i highly doubt he was referring to the entire floor, he wouldnt have had enough time to investigate the entire floor, he was probably only talking about what he say immediately after exiting the stairwell

[Aquarillis]

Okay, there is a radio recording of him reaching the floor and finding two isolated pockets of fire, and was telling the radio operator what he needed to take out the fires. I'm pretty sure he was there.

Now, take a good look at these two pictures:





Here's a picture of the WTC being built:





Notice the steel cores. Also remember that the WTC's were the strongest buildings in New York, and were designed to withstand MULTIPLE 707's hitting it, a large storm, and bombings.

Oh, and keep this argument in this thread, let's not lash out at each other or mess up any buisiness deals because of this, ok?

[lordvader129]

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Okay, there is a radio recording of him reaching the floor and finding two isolated pockets of fire, and was telling the radio operator what he needed to take out the fires. I'm pretty sure he was there.

i never said he wasnt there, i simply said he wasnt referring to the ENTIRE 78th floor, simply the area he saw immediately outside the stairwell

each floor was about an acre in size, it would have been near impossible (as well as impractical) for him to investigate the entire floor

the first pic doesnt prove anything, is the scale correct? is the angle of approach correct? why is the smoke obscuring the building forming a perfectly horizontal line? either it was added after the picture was taken (why?) or the wall of the building was pieced together from multiple photographs, meaning we have no way of knowing if the "undamaged" section of wall there is even in the right place

for second pic, the top section doesnt need to squash the entire building, it just needs to start the chain reaction, each floor it collapses adds more weight to collapse, the 78th floor was crush by the 32 floors above it, by the 77th floor was crushed by 33 floors above it, the the 76th floor by 34 floors, and so on and so forth, all the way down to the ground floor which had 110 stories fall on it

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Also remember that the WTC's were the strongest buildings in New York, and were designed to withstand MULTIPLE 707's hitting it, a large storm, and bombings.

it was designed to withstand MULTIPLE 707s now? for a building that was built over 30 years ago its design sure changes alot

it was designed to withstand the impact of a (A = meaning one, single) 707 (slightly smaller than 767) presumably "lost in fog" and assumed to be travelling at approach speeds (1/2 to 1/3 the speed of the planes that did hit the towers) and having already dumped its fuel

[Rylinkus]

QUOTE(lordvader129 @ Jun 7 2006, 09:12 PM)

it was designed to withstand the impact of a (A = meaning one, single) 707 (slightly smaller than 767) presumably "lost in fog" and assumed to be travelling at approach speeds (1/2 to 1/3 the speed of the planes that did hit the towers) and having already dumped its fuel

I believe the challenger was designed not to become a fireball on takeoff.....

Actually there's probably a video about that being a gov. conspiracy floating around here somewhere.

[guitarfrk]

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Actually there's probably a video about that being a gov. conspiracy floating around here somewhere.

yah ..i think it was in the same thread about nasa faking the moon landing

[lordvader129]

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you see a plane in the Pentagon?

me personally? no, but these people did

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"Aydan Kizildrgli, an English language student who is a native of Turkey, saw the jetliner bank slightly then strike a western wall of the huge five-sided building that is the headquarters of the nation's military. 'There was a big boom,' he said. 'Everybody was in shock. I turned around to the car behind me and yelled "Did you see that?" Nobody could believe it.'"
- "Bush Vows Retaliation for 'Evil Acts'." USA Today, 11 Sep 2001

"Frank Probst, an information management specialist for the Pentagon Renovation Program, left his office trailer near the Pentagon's south parking lot at 9:36 a.m. Sept. 11. Walking north beside Route 27, he suddenly saw a commercial airliner crest the hilltop Navy Annex. American Airlines Flight 77 reached him so fast and flew so low that Probst dropped to the ground, fearing he'd lose his head to its right engine."
- "A Defiant Recovery." The Retired Officer Magazine, January 2002

"Omar Campo, a Salvadorean, was cutting the grass on the other side of the road when the plane flew over his head. 'It was a passenger plane. I think an American Airways plane,' Mr Campo said. 'I was cutting the grass and it came in screaming over my head. I felt the impact. The whole ground shook and the whole area was full of fire. I could never imagine I would see anything like that here.'"
- "Pentagon Eyewitness Accounts." The Guardian, 12 Sep 2001

"Afework Hagos, a computer programmer, was on his way to work but stuck in a traffic jam near the Pentagon when the plane flew over. 'There was a huge screaming noise and I got out of the car as the plane came over. Everybody was running away in different directions. It was tilting its wings up and down like it was trying to balance. It hit some lampposts on the way in.'"
- "Pentagon Eyewitness Accounts." The Guardian, 12 Sep 2001

"Henry Ticknor, intern minister at the Unitarian Universalist Church of Arlington, Virginia, was driving to church that Tuesday morning when American Airlines Flight 77 came in fast and low over his car and struck the Pentagon. 'There was a puff of white smoke and then a huge billowing black cloud,' he said."
- "Hell on Earth." UU World, Jan/Feb 20

"We were the only people, we think, who saw it live," Dan Creed said. He and two colleagues from Oracle software were stopped in a car near the Naval Annex, next to the Pentagon, when they saw the plane dive down and level off. "It was no more than 30 feet off the ground, and it was screaming. It was just screaming. It was nothing more than a guided missile at that point," Creed said. "I can still see the plane. I can still see it right now. It's just the most frightening thing in the world, going full speed, going full throttle, its wheels up," - Ahwatukee Foothill News

Gary Bauer former Presidential candidate, "I looked at the woman sitting in the car next to me. She had this startled look on her face. We were all thinking the same thing. We looked out the front of our windows to try to see the plane, and it wasn�t until a few seconds later that we realized the jet was coming up behind us on that major highway. And it veered to the right into the Pentagon. The blast literally rocked all of our cars. It was an incredible moment." Massachusetts News

Sean Boger, Air Traffic Controller and Pentagon tower chief - "I just looked up and I saw the big nose and the wings of the aircraft coming right at us and I just watched it hit the building," Air Traffic Controller and Pentagon tower chief Sean Boger said. "It exploded. I fell to the ground and covered my head. I could actually hear the metal going through the building." dcmilitary.com November 16, 2001

"The only way you could tell that an aircraft was inside was that we saw pieces of the nose gear. The devastation was horrific. It was obvious that some of the victims we found had no time to react. The distance the firefighters had to travel down corridors to reach the fires was a problem. With only a good 25 minutes of air in their SCBA bottles, to save air they left off their face pieces as they walked and took in a lot of smoke," Captain Defina said. Captain Defina was the shift commander [of an aircraft rescue firefighters crew.] NFPA Journal November 1, 2001

along with dozens if not hundreds of others, now lets see you post a similar list of people who specifically DIDN'T see a plane hit the pentagon

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you see a plane in Shanksville?

again personally, no, but the peopel who were there sure did, so wheres your witnesses who didnt? (and dont give me that out of context BS form the coroner, im sick of seeing that)

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wtc7 fell cause there was a FIRE in it?!?!

a 12 alarm fire and structural damage, firefighters figured it was goign to collapse long before it did and cleared the area, find me a structural engineer who says it shouldnt have collapsed

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Both towers fell, at FREE FALL speed?

uh, no, they didnt, time it sometime

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HOW do you know there were 19 terrorists?

ill bite on this one, i go by what the FBI report says, but how do you know there WEREN'T 19 terrorists?

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You see, if you buy the 9/11 story, without one shred of proof, YOU my friends are the wack jobs.

there pletny of proof, witnesses, and expert testimony, you just dont like any of that

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2 airplanes, 3 buildings. Someone at the CIA didn’t do their math when planning 9/11.

4 planes, 3 buildings, 1 very large hole in the ground

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Even Hollywood does a better job than 9/11!!

is that what this is about? 9/11 didnt look like a hollywood movie so it must be fake?

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Then when you are done with that don't rely on Loose Change, it's not the only documentary covering the inconsistancies. Checkout the following site and get all documentaries under your belt. If you are honest with yourself and watch them completely you will never believe the official 9/11 Cover Story again. Good night.

loose change isnt the only documentary ive watched and its not the only documentary ive found to be full of crap


and in closing, as far as "thinking for myself" thats nearly impossible in a situation such as this, so your right, im no better qualified to state why the tower should or shouldnt have collapsed than you are, so how does that make me more blind than you?

the people who ARE qualified to make such statements (actual RELEVANT experts like structural engineers and demolitions experts) all agree with the NIST FEMA and 9/11 Commission reports, and what evidence i can examine myself i do (believe me, ive been looking into this who thing before the first conspiracy movie was ever put out there)


the truth is, your not unhappy that i havent done any independent research, your unhappy because i HAVE done research, and i dont agree with you, along with any other intelligent person who does research

[mmm12dna]

QUOTE(lordvader129 @ May 12 2006, 11:51 PM)

the structural steel used in teh construction of the towers would have been significantly weakened by the fire, this normally wouldnt have an effect as they were encased in a fireproof covering (to prevent just such an event, this is also why none of the other building that burned for hours mentioned in LC1 collapsed) this casing was stripped off by the inpact of the plane, exposing the steel to the fire and weakening it very quickly

when that section of the structure failed the rest of the support frame could no longer withstand the forces exerted by the top 1/3 of the building, causing the complete collapse

as for the "squibs" i see no evidence to indicate they are explosions at all (they certainly dont look liek explosions in any of the footage ive seen) and i dont think you do either, you just heard someone call them that and now you believe it

lordvader129


if you can find evidence of hijackers in f77 which crashed into Pentagon, you can DO me and I promise I will wash up nicely for you.... hint.. check the flight manifesto of passengers and see if you can find a name of hijackers... another hint, check the autopsy reports that identified the bodies in the Pentagon crash site...

to say that the fire weaken the structure is a joke and WTC were designed for multiple plane crashes... fi the top collapsed because of the fire and the crash, it is impossible for the whole building to crumble.  See the fine dust/powder of concrete covered up everywhere  inches high!! what kind of collapse can do that??

if pancake effect happened, the steel reinforced concrete cores would still be there... nothing can pancake the central cores away, which go straight up to the sky.. do you care to explain the molten lava that was still red hot weeks later in the basement of tower 1, 2 and building 7

FBI just came out and said that "no hard evidence has connected Osama Bin Laden to 911".  all we want is a thorough investigation of 911.... after all, Bush and neocon agenda has everything to gain from this attack, not the Al Qeada. Even if Bush and Cheney did absolutely nothing during 911, the attacks would be neutralised.... that's the standard defense mechanism in this country, but it totally collapsed that day with 15 military exercises going on the same day to confuse the real attack from the real military excercises, and to sent most if not all flighter jets away from their bases to fight an imaginary enemy far north to Alaska and Canada...

there are way too many records that Al Qeada members were working with CIA  etc...

Trillions of dollars missing from Pentagon audit and the debate over Gore's 2000 stolen election were the two major concerns before 911.-just two examples of how convenient 911 really was for Bush and the military industry complex... after 911, no one from media/the publics mentioned these issues..

it took decades for americans to wake up from the lies of JFK tragedy since the majority of this nation don't buy the official report anymore.  911 will wake us up much sooner!!!

if you ask why they do it, the answer is 1. they could 2. they got away with it many times(JFK, Martin Luther King, Robert Kennedy, Oklahoma bombing, illegal/privately owned Fed. Reserve, un-consititutional income tax/IRS...etc). 3 money and power..

[mmm12dna]

QUOTE(Heet @ May 31 2006, 03:39 AM)

If tom cruise believes it, it must be true LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
               
Its funny because these are the types of people that believe shit like this.

it's funny that people can believe that molten lava is caused by fire from jet fuels???..!!

funny how people can believe in shit like this...

 

[maltonbranch]

Im sorry, but a jumbo jet does not dissapear. the wings would show on the pentagon. the engines would create there own holes and the lawn would be marked. But it isnt. this alone proves that usa lied. the windows before the outer wall caved in were still intacked. Again, this alone proves that a jumbo jet DIDNT hit the pentagon. So why lie about it, why lie. As there covering up something.

The twin towers falling at FREEFALL speed, the structure supports. blown into 30meter bits, no beams sticking up out of the gound. Proves, the towers didnt fall by fire damage. LOL oh my god, sod tom cruise its fact thats proved. open your eyes holly shit bush is killing your country and us all. he doesnt regard anything worthy. look at the ozone, he doesnt give a damn as hes benefitting from it.

I love you yanks who believe it, even when there is evidience. And alot of it. If the fire was so hot, why was there people hanging out the holes of where the plane crahed into the towers. Where did the heat come from if you say thats what brought down the towers as it all burned off in a big ball of fire outside. where did this heat come from, as the periodic Stats its impossible. IMPOSSIBLE that jet fuel even if it didnt all burn off like it did could melt the steel.

People say its an insult to the victims of 911 when people mention conspiracy. Its an insult to look at the evidience and facts of 9/11 - and be blind to it as you Dare not stand upto bush or even open your eyes to it. Damn people 16foot hole...lol jumbo jet + 16foothole = impossible.

I know people are blind in life physically. but i never knew people with common sense can be blind mentally.

Nuff said from me.

Bring down bush!

[maltonbranch]

QUOTE(lordvader129 @ May 12 2006, 02:25 AM)

i watched the first half of the first loose change and it was so full of underinformed bullshit i couldnt bear to watch the rest of it, i wont be wasting an hour of my life on the second installment

LOL, underinformed....ooops wernt they informed by the same person as your been informed by....Bush!

Again another hick who wont watch it all. and then states a comment. IQ's on some people.

You never stated a comment on how the facts are wrong. why they are wrong. you just say underinformed. lol
every person that see this and doesnt admit its correct never say why its wrong. never. they say its possible for sky scraper to fall at free fall from fire. prove it as there is none in history apart trade towers "cough". bollox
I cant believe you have swallowed it from bush when the evidience proves hes lying.

[maltonbranch]

Fixed ohio Election. evil bush at it again

[lordvader129]

Im sorry, but a jumbo jet does not dissapear. the wings would show on the pentagon. the engines would create there own holes and the lawn would be marked. But it isnt.

[damam]

@lordvader
excellent post

have you read the nist report?

[throwingks]

Holy Cow.

Bow down to Vader.

That belongs in the best of xbox-scene thread. Too bad it is in the comedy forum, or I would post it there.

[Alex548]

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That belongs in the best of xbox-scene thread. Too bad it is in the comedy forum, or I would post it there.

I actually found it to be a quite amusing.

Did you notice the join dates of all those idiots who were talking crap prior to Mr. Vader's comments?
They all thought they had the last word in this debate... and 8 hours after vader's post... none of them have come back to post a reply.