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[throwingks]

QUOTE

The raids resulted in the arrests of seven managers and 1,187 of the firm's illegal employees across 26 states.

http://www.cbsnews.c...in1523431.shtml

[throwingks]

As if the demonstrations weren't? Some of the outspoken illegals don't have a clue. They are mad at America cause we have laws, yet they want to escape their native land to come here. I am still pissed they don't wave American flags at their marches.

[jha'dhur]

QUOTE(throwingks @ Apr 22 2006, 10:15 AM)

As if the demonstrations weren't? Some of the outspoken illegals don't have a clue. They are mad at America cause we have laws, yet they want to escape their native land to come here. I am still pissed they don't wave American flags at their marches.

Now you sound like Pat Robertson or one of those other hookies.  

Your entire post reads like a rehash from Lou Dobbs show.

Are you capable of independant thought?

Are you pissed that 4 amrerican soldiers died today?

[throwingks]

QUOTE(jha'dhur @ Apr 22 2006, 01:58 PM)

Now you sound like Pat Robertson or one of those other hookies.  

Your entire post reads like a rehash from Lou Dobbs show.

I don't even know who Lou Dobbs is. I hate Pat Robertson. I only get 20 cable channels, and I hate watching the news. I don't mind reading about it. I have said other times it is dumb they don't wave American flags.

Maybe Lou Dobbs argued that marching was a demonstation of intimidation just as arresting over 1,000 people was, but I doubt it.

What I don't doubt though, is that you are a moron. Do you think before you post, or just look for posts to make dumb statements about. Maybe 1 of your many degrees is in unsubstantiated theory? Noone knows for sure as you won't tell anyone.

QUOTE(puckSR @ Apr 22 2006, 03:29 PM)

Hmmm....ok for a moment Im going to ignore your rampant obsession with nationalism....

They dont have a clue?
Most americans dont have a clue either....
I understand that this "immigration bill" wouldnt effect you directly....so lets move to something a bit closer to home.....

So what? Being a clueless American isn't illegal.

QUOTE(puckSR @ Apr 22 2006, 03:29 PM)

Who is the speaker of the house?
Who favors state rights over federal rights?  Democrats or Republicans?
Why must you consider all applicants for a job despite race, sex, age, or disability?
What responsibilities does the vice-president have?
What is the official language of the USA?
How old do you have to be to be a US representitive?
How often would you be up for election if you were a US representitive?
When did we ratify the bill of rights?  (before/after/during the ratifying of the US Constitution)
Does the Supreme Court rule on the legitimacy of Congressional Law....or does it simply uphold Congressional law?
Take this quiz....without google....lets see how you perform?

Again how does this relate? No Americans are required to know any of this information.

QUOTE(puckSR @ Apr 22 2006, 03:29 PM)

Second....
Do you believe that we should show illegal immigrants the same human respect as all people?
Do you believe that we should treat them like human beings....or do you not care?
They are entitled to the same rights as all people...basic inalienable human rights...as defined by the Constitution and its Amendments.
"We have laws here"....they arent upset that we have laws...or that we want to deport them....
They are upset because the new proposed laws are incredibly harsh....
According to some of the new proposed laws....if your a migrant farmworker who "forget" to get his paperwork in order...your a felon.
Whats the big deal about labeling them felons?
Welll that would make it nearly impossible for them to legally enter the country ever again.
It would automatically remove normal considerations(such as the welfare of their family)
It would also require that they are processed through our legal system....and thus would begin a long system of legal struggles and trials.....

Yes, illegal immigrants are human beings. They broke the law. The only illegal immigrants I believe we should show sympathy towards are the ones who's countrys treat them inhumanely. But, if that was the case then I believe America should do something about the way that country is run. Kind of like Iraq, I wouldn't be upset about any Iraqi illegals coming here for refuge if they went through the steps.

QUOTE(puckSR @ Apr 22 2006, 03:29 PM)

So what if these protestors didnt wave american flags....they arent Americans...they are Mexicans....they dont have citizenship in the USA.  They would like it....but you dont celebrate for a country that is treating you like shit.

If you want to be recognized as an American you should recognize America. They don't want to be Mexicans, they want to be Americans, and ask America for help. It is always 2 fold. You aren't gonna get American benefits in Mexico. Same goes for all the other immigrant groups that are keeping quiet, cause they know they are in the wrong.
Plus, I don't see too many illegals that are treated worse here than in their own country. There is a reason they all came here. Maybe we aren't treating them like shit.

QUOTE(throwingks @ Apr 16 2006, 11:35 AM)

What about Cubans, Asians, and every other group? Why aren't they rallying? Cause they know they became indentured servants, which is a better life than they had. And, they are making a better life for their family.

[damam]

QUOTE(puckSR @ Apr 22 2006, 08:29 AM)

Who is the speaker of the house?
Who favors state rights over federal rights?  Democrats or Republicans?
Why must you consider all applicants for a job despite race, sex, age, or disability?
What responsibilities does the vice-president have?
What is the official language of the USA?
How old do you have to be to be a US representitive?
How often would you be up for election if you were a US representitive?
When did we ratify the bill of rights?  (before/after/during the ratifying of the US Constitution)
Does the Supreme Court rule on the legitimacy of Congressional Law....or does it simply uphold Congressional law?
Take this quiz....without google....lets see how you perform?

I assume your talking about the immigration test . . .
really i dont understand what the big deal is about this test.  You take a class, you study for it, you take the test.  Honestly, I think its primary aim is to make sure you have an IQ over 100 (which is average).  In reality my bet is that most people on this board could answer enough to immigrate anyways.  Its really not that tough if your interested in politics.  Even if your not, you could probably take an evening high school goverment refresher course in the evening for a semester and pass it with no problems.

Link to 100 Sample Questions
And if you really are that stupid here are the cliff notes

@Flat Tax
If I understand Forbes proposition correctly, everyone under a certain wage ( i think it was 50,000) would pay no taxes.  Basically anyone that makes money would pay less in taxes.  My biggest problem with it, is that it still does not address black market money.

[lordvader129]

QUOTE(puckSR @ Apr 22 2006, 02:29 PM)

What responsibilities does the vice-president have?

QUOTE

Fry: "Who are you people?"
Al Gore: "I'm Al Gore. And these are my vice presidential action rangers. A groupd of top-nerds whose sole duty is to prevent disruptions in the space-time continuum."
Fry: "I thought your sole duty was to cast the tie-breaking vote in the Senate."
Al Gore: "That, and protect the space-time continuum. Read the Constitution."

[shuyin131]

I talked to my friend yesterday and was outraged.  Also walking on my way home yesterday I also felt disturbed.  I had found out through some of his family members that after the march thing that happened nationwide, Hispanics in general started feeling animosity towards other's in general and I heard that this black guy got jumped by 10 hispanic guys FOR NO REASON.  

Another thing that made me feel disturbed was that there was this family that was hanging out in front of their house and as I walked by they suddenly went quiet and gave me weird looks.  My skin is tan and sometimes can be mistaken for a Hispanic but many people can tell upclose that I'm not.

[throwingks]

QUOTE(puckSR @ Apr 22 2006, 06:50 PM)

The questions I listed were all in reference to the political structure of the USA.
Anyone discussing politics should at least have a vague understanding of how the US govt functions...
Now, if your just John Q Public...then by all means that information is unnecessary...but if your going to be arguing about politics I would consider some basic understanding of the US Constitution as vital.
And I believe we should show sympathy towards all human beings....
If their only crime is wanting to live in America....then the only difference between you and them is that you were luckily born on the right side of the border.
How can you be born into a crime?
They want to live in America
You want to live in America...
but you dont let them because they were born in a country with a weaker economy?

Looking at this from an economic perspective....
I would much rather be "giving jobs away" to immigrant who now live in the US than sending jobs off to a foreign country that will not contribute back to the American economy.

As you know you can't help everyone in the world. I am not saying I am not fortunate, I know I am. I have a beautiful wife, a healthy son, and I am a computer engineer that gets to play professional baseball for a living. I would love it if everyone in the world could have at least some of the things I hold dear. The simple fact of the matter is you can't. I don't mean to sound cold, but that is the way it is.

I played baseball in Mexico for a month. That doesn't make me an expert, but I know more than some "experts". Their president Fox does some dumb shit, but it seems to me the majority of people there are complacent. Economically, I do not see how they are better off hiding out in America. There has to be other motives other than money. I believe the motives are the lifestyle which Americans live. That being my presumption, waving Mexican flags doesn't make sense. That was my whole point. It has nothing to do with being patriotic.

The "some are clueless" coment was directed to Jorge Mujica, not every illegal. As many Mexicans I see that are legal, I can't imagine why it would be so difficult, to do it the right way. Many, many people are born to countries worse off than Mexico. Where do we stop?

[throwingks]

^^^^
I hear where you are coming from. But, that only works on a micro scale. In the Macro scheme, you can't do that. You aren't saying teach them how to fish. You are saying give all of them some of the fish we have cause we have a lot. Teaching them to fish would be doing what I said in an earlier post. I think we are teaching the Iraqis how to fish. We could teach Mexico how to fish, but Fox doesn't want to learn. He is making too much money in other ways. I.E. getting his own fish.

America, cannot afford to give fish, healthcare, or wellfare to all of the people in the world. I read an article a long time ago mentioning the fact that we give tons of food to African nations. However, all of that food increases their lifespan, thereby, increasing their ability to breed. Thereby, increasing their population. So the next year we have to give more food, and on, etc. They do not have the environment to develop and maintain farmland. So, where does our charity end? What is the best economical solution for them? What is the best economical solution for us helping them? I gaurantee if Africa were below the US, Africans would be jumping borders. We have to end somewhere. It sucks, but that is life.

[throwingks]

Bro, I disagree with a lot of you are saying. Not on principle, on execution. (I have a feeling we are arguing different points) I am tired right now, I will go into it more tomorrow.

I do want to say, you are again, wrong in your assumptions. I am not rich, financially. So, I cannot donate dollar bills. But, I have given countless man-hours to community service. Not only in my community, but throughout the country. I play baseball, so I travel the country. I not only coach at free clinics, I go to schools and read books to the children, and explain the importance of health. Childhood problems such as: obesity, asthma, and diabetes are all rampant. I provide a little to the community at no return, other than feeling good about myself. I do not give money, because at this stage in my life my family needs the money tremendously. Minor league baseball players make almost no money at all. My 1st year playing, I made $850 a month before taxes. In my 7 year career, my understanding wife and I have acrued an enormous debt.

I don't make the rules I just play by them. All of the Mexicans can become legals, they just choose not to.

As vader said earlier, if becoming legal was easier, there would be no problems. <-I gave him a dancing banana on that statement.
And, as Jah said earler, if American laws were enforced, there would be no problems.<-Jah told me to run for president after my statement.

It isn't us vs. them. It is prioritizing. You are a great guy for wanting to help everyone. The intentions are fantastic. But, in reality, it isn't possible. Like in an E.R. you help the ones who need it most.

[shuyin131]

I was watching the news earlier this afternoon and there were people protesting illegals.  We then had some idiot teenagers wear bandanas over their faces, promoting anarchism, but also, promoting fairness for everyone.  Yeah they were pretty worthless and had absolutely no point in being there.  They were also all white.

But for the people who were really protesting against illegal's, there were a broad group of races, including Hispanic, who are basically sayng the same things some of us here are.  They then had some Hispanic guys walk up to them and started saying how much America needs them, how important they are, and all this other BS while the protesters kept trying to push the 'what part of illegal don't you understand' point, but none of the Hispanics seemed like they wanted to listen b/c they felt they had a right to be in the US.

As I watched, I saw mostly everything that was discussed here, that were anti-illegal, but none of them mentioned the CIS.org studies, although, if they had, they would have put those protesting the protest in their place.  I think that the more education the public gets about illegals, the more people that would be inclined to be anti-illegal.

[Kira Yamoto]

whoopsie

[shuyin131]

http://www.cnn.com/C....dobbs.tonight/

Look at the sidebar and check out the results of the vote.  96% people have said that GW Bush's comment on 'jobs that Americans won't do' was an insult to American people.  This raises a question in my mind.  Is this being said, only because we, non-labor workers do not know what it's like, to believe (or not to believe) that American citizens want or do not want these jobs? How do we know for sure these jobs are undesired?  There has been no factual evidence to point to, that we don't desire them at all.

I believe, that this propganda was spread, only so that this instills the belief in illegals, that they are needed in America because Americans don't want to do their labor jobs.  If you think about it, this is most likely spread, so that this supports employers who do hire illegals because of the tremendous profits, which in effect, boosts our economy in favor for richer people, and the government.

I also believe that this reform is only coming about, because the people are fed up with their quality of life, being affected and that they demand something be done about them.  I think that George Bush doesnt want to cater to the middle class and lower, he wants to support the richer class and make things easier for them.

This is a huge problem for the Bush Admin and the Senate. They wan't to keep on profiting off of the illegals, but don't want to be paying for their living expenses and medical attention.

[jha'dhur]

QUOTE(Arvarden @ Apr 23 2006, 05:42 AM)

"A good example of the phenomenom your discussing is Ethiopia....always been sand...will always be sand...
Take the advice provided by Sam Kinison.....dont send them food....send fucking moving vans.....but send something.."

Ethiopia has its baron area's and nomads but you would be suprised how well off certain areas are.  When the news focus's on Ethiopia you only see bad after bad, but a lot of good is happening there Pucksr.   Don't take my word for it go and visit yourself.

Unfortantly propagnada is the only language "fools" understand. I was fortunate enough to have a brief visit to Ethiopia:

1)  the oldest nation
2)  the first Christian nation
3)  the place where Jesus Christ grew up

QUOTE(Arvarden @ Apr 23 2006, 05:42 AM)

"Our charity ends when every person in the world has equal oppurtunities for success"

the smartest thing you have said.

@CockSR
Charity = 310 Billion allocated by Congress, and now nearly 9 Billion/month? Of which we will never see again. Sounds like they should send the vans to IRAQ also COCKSR?

But of course that will not make sense to you until you hear someone on TV say it.

Sam Kinison, HUH....

LOL

[puckSR]

QUOTE

Unfortantly propagnada is the only language "fools" understand. I was fortunate enough to have a brief visit to Ethiopia:

1) the oldest nation
2) the first Christian nation
3) the place where Jesus Christ grew up

Hang on....now i have to stop you....

1)Maybe....kinda depends on how your defining "oldest nation"....but i will grant you this point...since Im just arguing semantics
2)  Now this is beginning to become confusing...do you mean it was founded as the first Christian nation(which would refute point number 1....or that it was the first nation to declare Christendom its official religion?)
Anyways....a quick google and I found several references to Armenia rather than Ethiopia as the first Christian nation.  Shortly after the Armenian Christian state in 301 A.D. Rome declared itself a christian state under Constantine...when did Ethiopia become a "christian nation"?(I thought that the Roman 312 AD Christian state was the first...but Im willing to be wrong....I just strongly doubt the claim about Ethiopia)
3)Wrong....I dont know what sources you are using for this....but when i used to read the bible...it always referenced Egypt
Plus...I dont remember Josephus or any other historians discussing Ethiopia as the area that Jesus was raised in.....?