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Author Topic: Is There Any Doubt  (Read 609 times)

xmedia2004

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Is There Any Doubt
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2005, 01:48:00 AM »

QUOTE(Statecowboy @ Sep 18 2005, 09:33 AM)
Dude, stop fucking posting over and over...we get it...you hate bush, congratulations.  Why don't you spend some of your time and effort driving to N.O. and helping out instead of pointing fingers and looking up history on the web and posting links like you are doing research for the good of humanity.  Stop bitching and do something.
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xmedia2004

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« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2005, 06:46:00 PM »

QUOTE
Its a good thing that you listed the companies that are actually working on the cleanup. The point i was making is that none of these companies could individually manage the cleanup, and that would leave the US as a general contractor


This was taken from a list of the top 100 construction firms in US, someone stated that firms as such didn't exist in New Orleans, a town that recieves the lions share of commercial shipping of US ports.

For someone to state as they did that Halliburton is the only kid on the block is
not accurate.

I got no beef with Halliburton I do not think that they are corrupt.
I WORK FOR BECHTEL SAIC.

It just seems suspect to me that the a company the VP has a vested financial interest in should benefit so enormously. Seems to be at best an ethics violation from my Bechtel morals and ethics code training.  

Or the fact that the two largest campaign contributors recieve largest IRAQ contracts.

Why should public money go to private coporate entities. It is illegal for public funds to be diverted to private schools.

Capitalism 101 when poor business models are propped up by subsidies that
creates ineffieciencies in economic market. When inferior business models
fail as a result in true economic competition this is good for consumers.

If I can buy catfish from Vietnam for  $0.25/lb as oppose to homegrown for
$ 1.00/lb then I should buy Veitnamese catfish.

IF SWA can fly me from  Boston to LA for $ 198.00 and American or Delta cant beat price or service fly SWA

This is the basis of our economic system if you cant compete get out of business
service then I fly SWA.

QUOTE
From an accounting perspective, a government program is a liability, while a change in the tax rate would be increasing revenue. They are different animals. That what i was saying, and thats what im still saying.


WTF, save the BS life is a liability with two constants taxation and death.
Taxes are for public works not private profiteering period simple.
Whether it be Subway, FEMA, High School or NASA.

QUOTE
Im simply defending the choice of halliburton, claiming that while this may be considered a case of cronyism, its not an outright joke. It isnt like the US hired Jeb Bush's sons lawn care business to clean up the city. They hired a large resource managing company from near NO that has done work on this scale before, and who they are currently employing to do work for them in Iraq. You may not like the company, and it may be bad, but it wasnt wholly inappropriate to select them


Dude I been a contractor on a federal contract subcontracted to Bechtel for a few years now. I cant complain pay is good, but a wolf is still a wolf no matter how you dress it, and I have come to realize the inner workings of the "corporate hustle " And nothing is wrong with it when it does not rely primarily on public tax dollars that only increase shareholder wealth not the public domain.

I am not begging anyone to agree with me just open your eyes and think with your own F*ing brain.

It easy just to say that same BS with no basis in actual fact that only represents
common american sterotypes of whatever the popular type is for the moment.

Example: your buddy(Pug_ster) over in the Racism thread everything he spews is based on emotional propoganda. He sounds like an obsessed american Taliban frankly.  From his comments I kind draw some generalizations from him.
One being that his parents probabaly dont have college educations, he probably stays in the same small town his grandparents were born and died, and he probably is at or just below national poverty level.

I guess that this is a far worser punishment than anything the (blacks, mexicans,arabs, or jews) could do to him.
 


 





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xmedia2004

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Is There Any Doubt
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2005, 09:45:00 PM »

QUOTE
Yeah, and originally you claimed this was a communist act. America isnt a strict capitalism, thats a well known fact. We wouldnt have the FTC if we were, or the SEC or any of the other consumer protection bodies in government


It has communist overtones. And to point out that federal beauracracies dont do their jobs isnt anything new, DUH!!!!!  FEMA

Federal Trade Commision and Securities and Exchange Commision arent enforcement bodies. What jurisdiction do they have to prevent, sanction or bring charges to a Dick Chaney for giving Halliburton inside track. NONE,NILL,NADA
Who pursued MS for anticapitilistic businees practice cartel/monopolistic
business in browser, and windows source code.

NOT SEC, not FTC, DOJ Dept of Justice does this ring a bell. Competion get it not monopoly.

China doesn't practice text book russian communism but Russia didnt practice textbook communism.

Government corporate welfare is not completely communist but is anticapitilsitc.
Why support broken business as a policy.

QUOTE
The nation has a long standard of helping major corporations through periods of bankruptcy. The theory behind this is that if they allow large businesses to fail, that it could have drastic and sudden effects on the economy.


This statement is not accurate.  See the part about neutral referee above.
But the point I was trying to make, say Halliburton a mediocre oil company
that only began to flourish economically when Chaney got elected as VP.
Is simply illegal in free market and fair trade terms, becasue of outside
government inteferance.

If I thought for about 10 min I probably could name 10 Enrons and Global Coms
that said the same thing.  But since you didnt name any companies that society has benifited from because they were only ones doing what they do I will leave it at that.

Dude I took three semesters of Economics back in college. Macroeconomics, microeconomics and environmental economics. some time ago, but you arent going to shake me on economics. I knew three eco proffessors that would read what you wrote and laugh in your face honestly. Check the link I provide.

Repeated emotional ramblings do not spontaneously spawn into truth no matter how many times you repeat.

P.S. Pug_ster engineer SURE, sanitation engineer  laugh.gif




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Statecowboy

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Is There Any Doubt
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2005, 10:19:00 PM »

QUOTE(xmedia2004 @ Sep 18 2005, 03:59 AM)
The truth hurt?
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xmedia2004

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Is There Any Doubt
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2005, 10:45:00 PM »

QUOTE(Statecowboy @ Sep 19 2005, 06:30 AM)
WTF?  My BS?  What exactly is my BS?  I am not supporting anyone...I think Bush has made his fare share of mistakes.  However, I am sick and tired of people ragging on our govt. pointing out the same shit over and over...not being original and wanting people to applaud them for sticking up for something.  Well here's a newsflash...Michael Moor already beat you to it. 
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damam

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« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2005, 09:27:00 AM »

QUOTE
QUOTE

Not to mention that Cheney sold all of his stock in the company when he agreed to run with Bush for VP because he knew the kind of flack he would get from dumb asses like yourselves....so no, he doesnt get any profit from Haliburtons contract. Like puckSR said, just stick to your gaming unless you have something intelligent to say....Nimrod's!

Not true
. . .
you are mistaken Chaneys residual stock options have been reproted on major news for last 5 years,  
. . .
It just seems suspect to me that the a company the VP has a vested financial interest in should benefit so enormously. Seems to be at best an ethics violation from my Bechtel morals and ethics code training.

Every president and VP comes into office with a stock portfolio.  Cheney decided to donate all the money earned on haliburton stock (and others that could be seen as a conflict of interest) to charity.  Technically he may or may not have sold them, but per the document below, he will get absolutely no money from the stocks other than his innitial base investement.  So Cheney is not profiting off of these contracts at all.
Source
40% is going to University of Wyoming
40% will go to George Washington University's medical faculty to be used for tax-exempt charitable purposes
20% will go to Capital Partners for Education , a  charity that provides financial aid for low-income students in Washington, DC to attend private and religious schools
 
He did get about 400,000 dollars in defered salary payments while he has been VP, and he did report them.

then their is the matter of his retirement plan.  -  Cheney purchased an insurance policy so that if the company went under we would not be effected by that.

Any way you put it, cheney has no financial interest in halliburton.  The Feds define a conflict of interest as an employee being able to gain or lose money based on their position.  Cheney can neither gain nor lose.  He has either insured himself from it or given it away.

if you sift through all the bias at the site you keep using as a reference you can still see all that.

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xmedia2004

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Is There Any Doubt
« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2005, 12:42:00 PM »

QUOTE
Source
40% is going to University of Wyoming
40% will go to George Washington University's medical faculty to be used for tax-exempt charitable purposes
20% will go to Capital Partners for Education , a charity that provides financial aid for low-income students in Washington, DC to attend private and religious schools

He did get about 400,000 dollars in defered salary payments while he has been VP, and he did report them.


At least you did do some research instead of yelling some antiwhatever BS with your eyes closed and finger crossed hoping no one would see through the BS.

QUOTE
He did get about 400,000 dollars in defered salary payments while he has been VP, and he did report them.


No concern of ethical or financial conflict of interest?????

I guess in 2.5 years when he leaves office and all of a sudden gets a big
bonus check from Hally that wont concern you either.

QUOTE
The Feds define a conflict of interest as an employee being able to gain or lose money based on their position


Let me see Public Official A while in public office spoon feeds Corporation B government and state contracts. When corporate official A gets out of office
corporation b put him back on payroll officially.  <- Does this ring a bell.

You know Hally by no means was an industry giant or leader prior to Chaneys
inside tracking.

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damam

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Is There Any Doubt
« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2005, 02:14:00 PM »

QUOTE(xmedia2004 @ Sep 19 2005, 08:53 AM)
No concern of ethical or financial conflict of interest?????


 sleeping.gif

I have more than demonstrated that he is not dependent on halliburton.

If you think he is why dont you show where Cheney is financially dependent on Halliburton from the point he was VP until now - you have yet to do this and until you do their is no conflict of interest.

btw - the 400k he received would have been paid for by the insurance if hali had defaulted - so once again no conflict.

QUOTE
You know Hally by no means was an industry giant or leader prior to Chaneys
inside tracking.

Halliburton/brown have done several big govt contracts under both clinton and bush.  For example, Halliburton/brown did the vast majority of the LOGCAP contracts over the past decade and through out the clinton administration.  To my knowledge all of the current contracts that are in dispute with haliburton are LOGCAP as well.  So clearly they do have a strong presence in the industry.  If not, then why would clinton have awarded them the contract in 1997?
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Statecowboy

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Is There Any Doubt
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2005, 03:22:00 PM »

biggrin.gif

 beerchug.gif
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Statecowboy

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Is There Any Doubt
« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2005, 03:23:00 PM »

QUOTE(xmedia2004 @ Sep 19 2005, 12:56 AM)
Cowboys, Texas, queer, steer. Nevermind  sad.gif 
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puckSR

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« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2005, 03:58:00 PM »

Hey Cowboy, im going to make fun of you for one simple reason, Tech is going to kick your ass this year.  I would make fun of the sooners, but I know you hate them worse than Mack Brown.  So you might get 1 big 12 south win(Sooners)

xmedia-i think damam got you.  He has shown you that any impropriety on the part of Dick Cheney is predicted, and until the year 2008 comes, is merely speculative.  It may very well be true, but the last time i checked, we are not capable of condemning people for future acts.  Unless this is a really bad movie starring Tom Cruise, and i really hope it isnt.

Oh and just to respond to companies surviving bankruptcy to help the economy....
how about Kmart?--well the jury is still out
How about Stage Stores Inc?

Enron and the like are different.  They may employ many people, but in a crisis, other companies will quickly absorb their business.

Do you really think southwest wants to buy up all of the Delta planes?  Do you really think they want to absorb there failing business?

If a city bus service is not profitable, and the bus system is private, the city may try to purchase or supplement the bus service to maintain a public transportation system.  This is a similiar situation.  I agree that their may exist some corruption, but most of the time the answer to a question is simpler than we want it to be, and in this case while the government may be wrong, they probably think that they are doing the right thing.

Im attacking your conspiracy theory more than i am attacking your actual misgivings about the way money is being managed.


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Statecowboy

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« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2005, 04:08:00 PM »

QUOTE(puckSR @ Sep 19 2005, 06:09 PM)
Hey Cowboy, im going to make fun of you for one simple reason, Tech is going to kick your ass this year.  I would make fun of the sooners, but I know you hate them worse than Mack Brown.  So you might get 1 big 12 south win(Sooners)
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xmedia2004

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Is There Any Doubt
« Reply #27 on: September 19, 2005, 05:26:00 PM »

QUOTE(Statecowboy @ Sep 19 2005, 11:34 PM)
Oh is that what it means...thanks for explaining! 
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Statecowboy

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Is There Any Doubt
« Reply #28 on: September 19, 2005, 05:36:00 PM »

QUOTE(xmedia2004 @ Sep 19 2005, 07:37 PM)
Your illogical bully tactics, yell and scream fall out on the floor kicking and screaming, at least I got a consistent view not based upon the dummy standing beside me, or what is in style at the moment.
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xmedia2004

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Is There Any Doubt
« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2005, 05:46:00 PM »

QUOTE(puckSR @ Sep 20 2005, 12:09 AM)
Hey Cowboy, im going to make fun of you for one simple reason, Tech is going to kick your ass this year.  I would make fun of the sooners, but I know you hate them worse than Mack Brown.  So you might get 1 big 12 south win(Sooners)
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