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[damam]

QUOTE(Arvarden @ Mar 15 2005, 08:30 AM)

Daman, scientific stats are done undercontroled conditions and are more reliable than commercial, government "stats".

My numbers may not be rock solid when compared to statistical physics experiments, but I will take a good social science study over gut feel any day.  

You have nothing to back up what your saying, so you just ignore the evidence that is presented.  You implied that if you pulled a gun on anyone of your 8+ robbers they would come back with a gun and get you.  Do you have any evidence to back this up with?  Or is it just gut feeling?  are you basing it on heresay? urban legends?  it happened to a friend? what?

[me_007x]

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Yes, under British law if you shoot a burglar etc while he/she is making there getaway in the back that is classed as unreasonable force.

I'd bet you a pound to a penny, if he had shot the kid in the face he still would have been charged, he had an illegal shot gun remember. All the kids running around with guns, they can shoot each other in the street cause it is self defence   I think not.

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As I said before you have weapons left right and centre in your household, all you need is a little imagination. Besides if someone entered your room while you where sleeping and you awoke a bet you $100 you would forget you had a knife under your bed. Before you go to bed tonight think of word(no clues such as a clock or writng it down) and try and remember that word the following morning, you prolly won't remember until 2 days later wink.gif

So if someone breaks into my house and enters my bedroom I won't remember my knife that is within arms reach but I will be able to fashion a WMD out of a used toilet roll, some sticky back plastic and a glove. Someone breaks into my room whilst I'm asleep then they will run screaming (I sleep naked).  

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Prolly more i've lost count tbh..I live above a pharmacy and alarms, steal shutters won't stop someone entering your property..welcome to reality. Touch wood I havn't been attacked yet but if I was I've got a few suprises up my sleave, I have access to certain things you can only dream about wink.gif

So alarms don't work, all those TV programs and police initiatives to get home owners to protect their houses are a load of rubbish. I agree a determined burgler can enter any house he/she wishes but why make it easy for them? Why don't you just put all your stuff on the pavement (sidewalk for our American cousins   ) outside so that they don't have to break in. That way you can save money on repairs to your windows and doors.

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So should we let the general populas bare arms for self protection or do we invest more money into our Police force, the inteligent response would be the later.

I agree ( ) we should spend more money on the police force. Better still would be to reduce the amount of paperwork they have to do and, even better, increase the sentencing.

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Rant all you like I'll be here waiting to slap you down *again*

biggrin.gif

I apologise for the previous statement

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I'm going to have a break for a few minutes before this becomes a major rant against one person. Can't do it.... must... leave.... keyboard..... no.... must.... stop... typing

, it was a bit out of order. I don't feel slapped down.

[The unProfessional]

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So alarms don't work, all those TV programs and police initiatives to get home owners to protect their houses are a load of rubbish. I agree a determined burgler can enter any house he/she wishes but why make it easy for them

This is true, but if your house is better protected than the one next to it, who do you think is more likely to get robbed?

What bothers me is we're not allowed to have dogs who'll give hell to robbers.  If we do, we lose our insurance and probably our dogs.

[me_007x]

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What bothers me is we're not allowed to have dogs who'll give hell to robbers.

[LenteSubigo]

Race Issue:
Fact: The higher the level of diversity the higher the ammount of crime on average.

There are always going to be exceptions to every rule.  I can find stats that show that a city with low or no diversity has a huge crime rate.  I can find stats that show that a city with a very high diversity has almost no crime.  But these are just exceptions to the rule.  If you take a country or a state/province or any large region the rule will be valid.  

The US has 3 times the diversity, and just over 3 times the gun deaths compared to canada.


Kiling Burglers
I believe that anyone stealing from me deserves what he/she gets.  If you come into my house and try to steal something, I won't just shoot you, but I will point the gun at you, and hold you until the police arrive.  If you don't obey my orders, I will shoot you in the leg or other nonlethal location.  If you try to run, I will shoot you in both legs until you are immobile, then hold you until the police arrive.  If you don't obey my orders, and reach into your pocket or do anything that can be considered threatening, I would put a billet between your eyes, and then one in your heart for good measure.  

If you come onto my property inorder to commit a crime, you have just sacrificed every right you have, including your right to live.  I won't take your life unless I have to, but I will not hesitate if it becomes my only safe option.  This goes for anyone, if you are 6 years old or if your are 60 years old.




Being robbed 8 times:
I feel that allowing yourselft to be robbed 8 times is  crime itself.  It is ones duty to protect one's self and one's property.  Allowing people to steal your property and having the insurance company pay is wrong and immoral.  If you don't like guns, simply install a security system and put up a few camera's.  If you don't want to spend the money, buy $5 worth of stickers and a few fake security cameras.  Like it has been said before, criminals don't want a challenge.  If they wanted a challenge they would get a real job.  What they want is a quick easy $, usually to fund their drug habbit.  If you give them the impression that you have security, and don't give them a huge target (hugely expensive stuff within view) then they will go to your neibor and rob them.

A law should be passed that says that if a person is robbed repeatedly and doesn't increase their security that they should face fines, and then jail time.



.50 Cal Rifle:
Any gun can kill, the real question is what guns are actually being used to kill.  The .50 Cal rifle is not the type of gun that is being used to commit murders.  The guns that are actually being used to kill are hand guns.  Gangs and criminals use hand guns because they are easily hidden, but still have all the power needed to kill.  I don't think you will find a very high percentage of gang members that have any accuracy with a .50 cal rifle.  There is no reason to ban hand guns even though they are responsible for well over 90% of all gun related deaths, because the criminals don't buy guns legally.  




So for a summary:
.50 Cal - No reason to ban because it isn't used for killing.
Being robbed 8 times - Should be a crime to allow yourself to be robbed repeatedly
Killing Burglers - You come on my property, you should know your life is in danger.
Race - High Diversity = High Crime - There are always exceptions to a rule, but when you look at a large area the rule will always show true.

[me_007x]

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remember he was in his home and not out on the street

I was hoping you'd pickup up on that. I am now going to buy an illegal gun safe in the knowledge that I can shoot anyone in my house. All I have to worry about is a small prison term should I kill someone.

Hang on, it sounds to me like you think that people should not have legal weapons to protect their homes, but its OK to have illegal ones.  

[Arvarden]

Wow Lente you must be ex/special forces, special is debatable in your case imo.
If you read back a page or 2 you may see why we have a problem with non violent criminals.  

Me x, no I don't agree with illegal firearms.  Remember to shoot your attacker in the face chest or legs and if he/she dies you won't suufer the consiquences.  Well apart from having an illegal fire arm.  If you attack your attacker with a household object and kill the person you won't face any charge.

Please STFU.

[me_007x]

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Er no so what makes you think you have the right to take someone's life for petty theft?.

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If you attack your attacker with a household object and kill the person you won't face any charge.

These two quotes came from the same person, I wonder who?

I would also like to point out that a few pages back I said I was on the fence, cause I don't like banning stuff BUT CAN SEE SOME OF THE ARGUMENTS FOR BANNING GUNS.

Back to you.

Oh, and try and come up with something more constructive than STFU please, I did apologise for my transgression

[damam]

QUOTE(Arvarden)

The so called links you provided are opinions, one of the links you provided is so biased it makes Fox News look like a News channel. So your factual quest is a farce from begining to end as you don't gather infomation from life expereince's but from the net.  Sad.

the link might have been to a website that is biased - but they did accurately quote the case.  Dont believe me, do a google yourself since you dont like my links.  Its a well known landmark case.

QUOTE(Arvarden)

I give you a slight  glimpse of what it's like for me when tackling crime in my country and you say I offer nothing?

you have given me a glance into your culture and perspective - I thank you for that - through dialogue i hope to gain a better understanding.  maybe you dont have the same goals.  if you take any of this personally - you shouldnt.  I like to discuss, argue, challenge, and be challenged. its a part of who I am.  I want to be challenged by your arguement, but before your last post to me it appeared to be based entirely on a dogmatic belief.  Now it appears to be based on personal experience - which is fine.  I sincerely hope luck continues to run in your favour.

My personal experience and studies have led me to the exact opposite conclusion.

[me_007x]

Would you, if your the burgler, rock that sweet set up?  

[me_007x]

Arvarden, I am amazed at your unprejudiced view of my home situation. Unlike you, I do not just assume things about another person that I do not know. The "average bedsit" you refer to is a three bedroomed house costing rather a lot of money - and, unlike you, we seem to have grasped the concept of PROTECTING our property as peacefully as possible. Yes, if some asshole gets past the camera, the locks, and the alarm then I will attack them, cos, quite honestly, that isn't some kid who has gone a bit astray - that is some loser who would rather free load than work his guts out like the honest men and women that most of us are - yourself included. (I admit I am assuming you're an honest person there - hope that's ok?!)

If you live above a shop, which I have no reason to doubt, and they are protecting their property, why are you NOT doing all you can to protect yourself if a business premises is more likely to be broken into?

Last thing - this isn't actually Me_007x writing. I've read with interest this thread, and whilst Me_007x is happy to let things slide, I'm kinda a bit annoyed at the things you've assumed about him and his family sitch. He hasn't said it, cos he won't, but he has martial arts training and I'm sure that should the situation demand it that someone broke into the house and tried to steal either from him or me (his sister) he would find a way to stop them without having to create a WMD from a toilet roll, or indeed a gun.

But as Me_007x would say - if a gun was there, it would make sense to point it at the guy trying to rob us - what constitutes "reasonable force" is anything that stops a person stealing from me!

(By the by, Me_007x watched me type this thread, but didn't stop me expressing my thoughts - any beef you have is with me, not him.)

And having said all that - I wish you a good evening!

[me_007x]

QUOTE(Arvarden post Mar 11 2005 @  03:10 PM)

Daman, spell my name correctly next time.

you have repeatedly not spelt my name correctly, so who is the hypocrite?

You will be pleased to hear this will be my last post on this topic, (unless I really feel the need to come back in). Basically, as much as I have enjoyed the discussions, I'm bored with this argument, I'm not going to change your view and you are not going to change mine. No hard feelings.  

Oh and damam, I have no idea why the british government felt the need to start to bring in tighter gun controls back in the 1900's, sorry.

[Ween311]

Let's change the direction of this thread for just a moment.  Just for a different perspective.  Let's move away from burglars and onto people who want to come into your house to assualt someone.  It happens.  Just a week or so ago, a little girl was taken from her house in Florida while the grandmother was asleep.  Many people believe it was someone the family knew.  If that person knew there were guns in the house, do you think they might have thought twice about going in there to take that little girl?

Or a woman at home late at night.  Someone has been watching the house and knows what time the woman gets home from work and that there is no one else at home.  Do you think that person would be as willing to try to come in and overpower the woman if he knew she had a gun and knew how to use it?  It still might happen but the victim has the chance to not be a victim if they are able to protect themselves.

As for the metal detectors at school, these kids would still be able to get guns, because in most cases, the schools in the US with metal detectors are in inner city schools, where gangs that have access to illegal firearms are more prevelant.  

That's awesome that your insurance company still covers you after that many incidents.  I made one claim on my homeowners insurance (had the same company for 8 years and never had a claim) and they dropped me when it came time for renewal after just one claim.

[Wong Hung Lo]

[thewickedjester]