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[estin]

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Yo Yo Yo, my name is QCSkate27....im totally too cool for everybody, yo?!? Hey what's up homeboy? My name is QCSkate27! I think abortion is da bomb and I don't give a shiznit about killing people! Yo yo yo!!!

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No, it's liberals like yourselves. Just look at hollywood. Let's preserve morals!

as you can see you instigated on those, i responded by not only defending myself, but others.  i'm the disrespectfull one tho  

[powercntrl]

QUOTE (OrkanMan @ Oct 30 2004, 08:57 PM)

Hey, I'm the guy that said let's ban abortion but keep other means of birth control so that everything can be fair.  And I'm the bad guy!

Last I checked, Christianity's official position is that unless you're married and having sex for the sole purpose of procreation, you're commiting a sin.  So you're either in a state of holy matrimony and making babies, or you're practicing abstinence.  I think taking that kind of direct moral stance would be rather unpopular even with a lot of conservatives.

See, what the bible is really missing is a sin points scale, so good Christians can determine which laws of morality are more important in protecting your eternal soul from hellfire and damnation.  Everyone's going to run afoul of these rules from time to time, Christians are only human afterall.  It would be nice to know that God is more likely to forgive you for that blowjob you got in the car from that girl you met at the nightclub than that $1.00 bottle of Coke you drank at the supermarket and forgot to pay for at checkout.  You can tell I'm having WAY too much fun with this.  

The thing is, Christians seem to pick and choose what parts of their morality they want to enforce not only on their bretheren, but non-believers as well.  If you want to be part of a hypocritical religion that lets you commit certain sins on a wink-wink, nudge-nudge, it's okay to do this basis, that's your choice.  This is why I think it's bad that Bush mixes religion and politics.  I'd have a substancially higher opinion of Bush if he left his moral opinions at the white house door.

[OrkanMan]

[OrkanMan]

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as you can see you instigated on those, i responded by not only defending myself, but others. i'm the disrespectfull one tho

Estin:  Yes, I agree, you did respond in a disrespectful way.  I think it's funny how you are accusing people like me of forcing our morals onto other people, and saying that is the "truth" about us.  Yet, it's liberals like yourselves that are taking prayer out of schools and trying to change the words of the Pledge of Allegiance.

So, I ask you....who's forcing who?  

[Intensecure]

Just check my postcount - now bow down and suck my atheist god-fucking balls, you ignorant shit-eater.
When you take a shit, I hope it comes to life and kisses you goodnight, OrkanMan.

[OrkanMan]

I guess that's what I get for talking on a forum that is mostly liberal.

[thomes08]

QUOTE (OrkanMan @ Oct 31 2004, 03:21 PM)

powercntrl:  We aren't talking about Christianity, we are talking about morals.  But, you seem to find a way to bring up Christians in every conversation. Are you paranoid?

no no no no no...... you're not talking about morals, you're talking about christian morals and it's obvious.  There is no such thing as "good morals" in the eyes of the world.  Most people think they have good morals, but is that true?  You'll never know because you're only comparing them to your christian morals.

If people aren't responsible enough to not get pregnant (and sometime accidents happen you can't just discard that) how can they Take care of the baby?  Oh you say adoption... that's not always a good choice for a few reasons.  on it's forcing the woman to go through a possibly life threatening (yes life as in a life that is away it's alive) to do something they don't want to do.  Two who's to say this baby will be taken care of in thr womb?  The mother could be smoking and drinking or on drugs, the woman could be beaten, regular checkups may not occur.  These are all unhealthy things to an unborn child.  Three, on top of those two things if all these abortions were to result in adoptions, we'd end up putting them down like we do animals in the pound, unless we (look away jesus) lighten up the adoption process and make it easier for homosexual couples (maybe even married homosexual couples) to adopt a child.  But that child would grow up fuck up right?    Or the people could keep the baby and we all know how terrible that could end up.  

those are just a few thigns off the top of my head.  You say you're talking morals, but you don't realize your morals aren't what others are.  You want to punish the people who get pregnant, when in many people's mind that is punishing the kid and parents more than if the woman were allowed to choose.  You'll never except that as morals because it's not your own, but in the long run i know that's your loss not mine.  I'm with estin, have a good one guys.

thomes08

[pug_ster]

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"It's hard for me to say that Christians should be marching against abortion and carrying signs, and then turn around and giving a pep rally for the war in Iraq without even contemplating that hundreds and hundreds of people are being killed on a regular basis over there," Urcavich said. "I'm very antiabortion, but the reality is the right to life encompasses a much broader field than just abortion," he added. "If I'm a proponent of life, I have to think about the consequences of not providing prescription drugs to seniors or sending young men off to war."

[estin]

QUOTE (OrkanMan @ Oct 31 2004, 03:46 PM)

Estin:  Yes, I agree, you did respond in a disrespectful way.  I think it's funny how you are accusing people like me of forcing our morals onto other people, and saying that is the "truth" about us.  Yet, it's liberals like yourselves that are taking prayer out of schools and trying to change the words of the Pledge of Allegiance. So, I ask you....who's forcing who?

if you need to pray in school you can go to private schools.  but where will the people who don't share your views go when you have your way with public schools too? see were not being unreasonable to expect a place free of religion when you have your choice of many schools that promote it.  the pledge of Allegiance is the same thing, its putting your ideals into a place which should be free of religious influence.  i also don't think "in god we trust" should be printed on our money. i beleive in no god, therfore i don't put any of my trust in him.  i really don't care about that one tho because last time i checked greed was a very large sin, so it kinda just discredits itself.  bottom line is you deserve a place to go to have your faith, and us non-beleivers deserve a place free from it.  



and again i may have responded previously in a disrespectfull way, but i wasn't the one who made the first attack.

[OrkanMan]

Thomes08:  You don't have to be a Christian to believe that abortion is immoral.

Don't you know at least one athiest who doesn't support abortion?  Well, I know at least one, and probably more.

[OrkanMan]

QUOTE

-->Last I checked, Christianity's official position is that unless you're married and having sex for the sole purpose of procreation, you're commiting a sin. So you're either in a state of holy matrimony and making babies, or you're practicing abstinence. I think taking that kind of direct moral stance would be rather unpopular even with a lot of conservatives. Actually, that was Augustine's position, and that's the Catholic Church's official position. That's not the mainstream Protestant position. Protestant evangelicals such as myself (Southern Baptistt) believe sex is a gift from God, and the act of sexual intercourse is a pleasurable experience intended for husbands and wives, intended to bring them closer (i.e., "the two shall become one flesh"). The problem is, like just about every gift God has given us, sex has been twisted, distorted by sin, as a result of the fall of man and as a result of our own personal, selfish, self-indulgent choices. self-control is not a virtue according to this world.

Well said.

[estin]

i think he meant because his post count was  "666"  not that he was smart from his number being high.

[Baner]

QUOTE ("Baner)

yea, because the 14 year old girl should have to ruin her teenage life because she was raped and could not get an abortion and was forced to have the baby.  Where'd that come from? I'm all for abortions, yet against them at the same time. I don't mind if people got abortions in the case of the example above, but for someone to get an abortion, because "it was an accident" isn't right. If you want to take your chances, take the penality too. Give birth, go thru the pain, and put the kid up for adoption(if you can). Looking at your kid after it's born is going to change your mind on whether an abortion was a good thing or not, or even adoption for that matter.

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estin, I'd like you to go up to a person above the age of 16, who was born due to a rape, and thier mother contemplated abortion, and ask them if thier life was worth living. Ask them if they would throw it all away so thier mother wouldn't have to go thru 9 months of awkwardness and no more than 2 days of pain. Ask them if everything they've done in life is pointless, and the world would be beter off, cause thier mom wouldn't have to live with the fact that she created life.  for one there is no way you could have even the foggiest idea what a raped women feels like have her rapists baby growing inside her. neither could I. so with that being said obviously you have no buisness trying to lecture her about what she can and can't do. you realize you anti-abortion extremest running around forcing your opinions on others and telling them their wrong for their beliefs is no different than the kinda crap thats going on in the middle east. you just can't accept it when others don't agree. "awkwardness!?!?!" awkwardness is what you feel right before you speak in front of people, what you feel when you have to stare into the face of a rapists abomination for the rest of your life is call "HELL" you'd be better off tattooing "i was raped" on your forehead so everytime you looked in the mirror you remember. you'd see it less!

Here estin, I made it easy for you. I quoted something I said, that talks about my views on rape and abortions, and abortions in general, and then my second post, and your rebuttle to it.
Theres a couple of sentences in my second quote, that you might wanna think about. You don't think the child's life is more important than the mom having to live with the fact that she gave birth to a rapists son, but her son none the less?

As for your second paragraph about the awkwardness, that would be true, aslong as the mother was completly shallow, and couldn't look beyond the fact that it was a child of a rapists, rather than her son. As far as living with it for the rest of her life, give it up for adoption, there's other ways around abortion. Abortion is just another way for teenagers to be able to get rid of thier problems.

I guess you could call me semi-pro-choice, I'm against the usual abortions, but all for the abortion of rape victims. I'd rather them give birth, giving the child a chance, rather than not allowing them to breath a single breath of air.
Think about this, when someone finds out thier preganent do they say "I have a fetus!", or do they say "We're having babies."?

I just can't comprehend how people can be completly for abortions with no restrictions...

Estin, tell me when someone doesn't bring emotions into a political debate. You wouldn't side with the side you do nless it somehow affected you would you? We wouldn't have murder, rape, burgulary laws if people didn't let thier emotions take control. Murder is unethical, so is abortion, Murder is illegal cause it ends the life of someone, yet abortion doesn't even give the child a chance.

[Baner]

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if you need to pray in school you can go to private schools. but where will the people who don't share your views go when you have your way with public schools too? see were not being unreasonable to expect a place free of religion when you have your choice of many schools that promote it.

There's nothing stopping you from praying in a public park right? Our 1st Amendment does allow the freedom of speech and religion. So why is it restricted in public schools? No one is forcing those who don't believe in God to say the pledge, or read the words on our dollar bills.
As for private school, what about the kids who can't afford to go to private school, or don't have the transportation, should they be excluded because the non-believers want to be segragated?

[estin]

you have strong points baner, and i guess since we've all argued so many different points it just comes down to the fact we just don't agree.  i am glad this thread came back to a civil conversation rather than a emotional flame war.  so i do appreciate that.