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[havocaose]

QUOTE

I say Kerry. Kerry is dominating the interview thing and Bush really is an idiot.

you mean presidential debates

[buttface96]

I dont really know on this election. I don't like either canidate, Bush making us go to Iraq was pointless, and Kerry keeps flip floping on his past doings. If i had to elect a person it would be Bush. I would feel much safer with Bush leading our country, instead of Kerry. Just my opinion

[pedro]

I hate the 'kerry is a flip flop' crap...
think about it...
would you rather have a president who is consistantly wrong (W) or one that might have voted on something, and then later realized he didnt make the best decision in the past, and then voted against it...that just makes sense to me.

And why does no one point out Bush's flip flops?
like in the second debate...he was talking about stem cell research he said he was teh first president to allow any study of stem cell research, and then went on to talk completely against it...thats a pretty big flip flop if you ask me...

Kerry also did a very good job of defending himself against that 'flip flop' propaganda...
for example, the patriot act...he said he like the idea of it and thus voted for it...but he disagrees with the way it is being carried out and abused...I see no flip flop there...just common sense.
same with the money for the military...He said he thought it was a good thing and thus voted for it. But later on when he realized that the money was coming out of the pockets of the middle class and going to fund things like bunker busting nuclear missles which we actaully dont need...
again, not flip floping...just disagreeing with the way a good plan is being carried out.


Bush's behavior in the second debate really turned me off as well..
when he stepped in out of trun and the orater tried to make him shut up but he kept going...that was just an asshole thing to do and it shows he has no respect for authority...the same personality trait that made him lead us into a war with no allies that  can really do anything to help us...that just isnt the kind of president I want...

I was watching the dabate with a few 'undecideds' who lean to the right and as soon as bush did that they looked at me and said, "this debate is already over as far as I'm conserned" so I guess I am not alone in thinking I dont want a prez with no respect for authority.

Kerry '04 (though I wish he hadn't chosen Edwards)

pedro

[rocky_2197]

Bush never flip-floped He stated he doesn't support stem cell research he was the first presedent to authorize the use of the 200 stem cell lines that already were available and were set up to be destroyed, rather than have them destroyed he provided them to the lobying scientist to conduct research.  He still dosn't want to increase the research or authorize the use of any more stem cell lines for research.  So he hasn't fliped flopped.  The flip-flopping still remains for the calling card of the democratic pesedential nominee.  Any if the VP nominee Mr. No show ever showed up for anything he probably would be flip-flopping all over the place as well.  Like a fish out of water.

W04

[brandogg]

Bush IS the authority. He had to use that time to clear up some lies Kerry was throwing out to the people that he tries to make think the world is going down the tubes.

[pug_ster]

Bush's administration and most of the Repubs say that Kerry flip flopped.  Bush doesn't have a plan for what to do in his 2nd term so he decided to attack Kerry instead.

There's a difference between being characterized as a flip-flopper and being a flip flopper.  After 9/11 he was against the 9/11 commission being formed and then later for it.  After the 9/11 commission came out with a set of recommendations, he was against it.

[Trisman]

Kerry for all the reasons stated above, and the fact that since Bush has pissed off much of the world, we need someone else to be in power so we can get maybe some of our allies back.

[rocky_2197]

• In short, Saddam considered UN sanctions as a form of economic war and the UN’s OFF program and
Northern and Southern Watch Operations as campaigns of that larger economic war orchestrated by the US
and UK. His evolving strategy centered on breaking free of UN sanctions in order to liberate his economy
from the economic strangle-hold so he could continue to pursue his political and personal objectives.
One aspect of Saddam’s strategy of unhinging the UN’s sanctions against Iraq, centered on Saddam’s efforts
to infl uence certain UN SC permanent members, such as Russia, France, and China and some nonpermanent
(Syria, Ukraine) members to end UN sanctions. Under Saddam’s orders, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs
(MFA) formulated and implemented a strategy aimed at these UNSC members and international public
opinion with the purpose of ending UN sanctions and undermining its subsequent OFF program by diplomatic
and economic means. At a minimum, Saddam wanted to divide the fi ve permanent members and foment
international public support of Iraq at the UN and throughout the world by a savvy public relations campaign
and an extensive diplomatic effort.
Another element of this strategy involved circumventing UN sanctions and the OFF program by means of
“Protocols” or government-to-government economic trade agreements. Protocols allowed Saddam to generate
a large amount of revenue outside the purview of the UN. The successful implementation of the Protocols,
continued oil smuggling efforts, and the manipulation of UN OFF contracts emboldened Saddam to pursue his
military reconstitution efforts starting in 1997 and peaking in 2001. These efforts covered conventional arms,
dual-use goods acquisition, and some WMD-related programs.

So who are our allies?  Apparently we have strong relations with our real allies, ie England,Austrailia, other coalition nations.

Who cares what France, Ruissia, and China thinks about the US.

[JammDDR]

I love it when Bush is always talking about that we must always be on the offense. It's good to have a great offense, but as the old saying goes: Defense wins championships.  

The first bill for the $87 billion was that it was supposed to be paid for by the top 1% income earners in the country.  That is the bill Kerry voted for, but the bill was defeated.  The 2nd bill proposed the $87 billion come from a loan and in turn would add it to the already record breaking deficit.  That is the bill Kerry voted against and it passed anyway.  Now because of it my future children and my current niece and nephew will be paying for it down the road.

[gcskate27]

QUOTE (rocky_2197 @ Oct 11 2004, 12:46 AM)

So who are our allies?  Apparently we have strong relations with our real allies, ie England,Austrailia, other coalition nations. Who cares what France, Ruissia, and China thinks about the US.

blair is getting reamed for standing behind bush and his actions... have you ever talked to an english person? it could be argued that they are our strongest allies (in support and importance), and most of them dislike us (or at the very least are very annoyed at the us' attitude)... right now were driving allies away, not bringing others in...

as for bush's flip-floppings...

and kerrys (from the same site) so my post can be considered 'fair and balanced'...



*link credits go to cainedna  

[Baner]

GcSkate, have you ever asked an English person who their going ot vote for?
Their answer will be Blair.

As far as the flip-flopping topic, has anyone seen that Kerry commercial where he says "I voted for the $87 Billion bill, before I voted against it." Is that suppose to appeal to everyone? I really don't see how that helps him. Bush may flip-flop, but do you want a president that, for example, sends troops after Bin Laden, and after losing troops, and relising that it's not going to be the easiest thing, pulls out, leaving everything that was lost behind?

Vote: Bush  

[pedro]

QUOTE (brandogg @ Oct 11 2004, 01:34 AM)

Bush IS the authority. He had to use that time to clear up some lies Kerry was throwing out to the people that he tries to make think the world is going down the tubes.

No he is not, the people are.
just because he is the president doesnt make him above the rules of a formal debate.  The debate had strict guidlines which he in a very smart ass way, decided the break...

The kind of person that thinks just because he is the president he can do whatever the hell he wants is not the kind of person that should be president.

[gcskate27]

[thomes08]

QUOTE (Baner @ Oct 11 2004, 01:38 PM)

GcSkate, have you ever asked an English person who their going ot vote for? Their answer will be Blair. As far as the flip-flopping topic, has anyone seen that Kerry commercial where he says "I voted for the $87 Billion bill, before I voted against it." Is that suppose to appeal to everyone? I really don't see how that helps him. Bush may flip-flop, but do you want a president that, for example, sends troops after Bin Laden, and after losing troops, and relising that it's not going to be the easiest thing, pulls out, leaving everything that was lost behind? Vote: Bush

Tony Blair WILL NOT get reelected.  I have a good friend who's from england over the summer 10-12 of their family came to the states for a visit.  Now i know this is only one family but they're hatred for blair is equal to my hatred for bush, and they say everyone else in england thinks the same way.  There are many people from the UK on here (this was before you started posting in this forum) and they all have said how bad the hatred for blair is, and assured us that there isn't even a chance of him getting reelected.

Now i don't live in the UK but form the 15 or so i've talked to about this situation they all say the same thing, "back your bags tony"


thomes08


PS  and that 87 billion dollar thing is another thing taken waaaay out of context to try and swing voters away.  I think it worked for a while but after many people have heard kerry talk about those specific issues many people are starting to realize that it's not the same thing they were being fed.  The 87 bollion dollar thing is just about dead, i think it's time the republicans find something else to take out of context, people just aren't that dumb for too long

[Baner]

Ukians do hate Blair, but they don't want the Whigs party in office, and the rest of thier parties are independent, and we know they never get voted in. Half my family lives in the UK (Dad's side), and they agree that Blair sucks, but they got no one else to vote for (hey, do we have the same problem?). Anyway, this is suppose to be about Bush and Kerry, so back on topic.

That $87 Billion quote was from his commercial, representing his party, and approved by him. There wasn't anything else to take out of context, that's all he said in his commercial, it's not my fault i wasn't given anymore information when he was representing himself.