Topic: The Debate (Read 782 times)

Baner · « **Reply #105 on:** October 07, 2004, 11:02:00 AM »

Oh thomes.. It's amazing that you know so much about me!
Considering when I came to the states, my family had nothing. Us being illegally here didn't help matters much either. My parents worked full-time, with lots of over-time, while my brother (7 at the time) raised me (3 at the time). It was like that for almost 5 years. My dad was lucky enough for one of his friends to help invest into an alteration business (which he still owns). But then again, I'm spoiled and don't know how it is to be with nothing and have to work for everything you have right?...Fuckin prick

Ween311 · « **Reply #106 on:** October 07, 2004, 11:03:00 AM »

Just to lighten the mood a little bit. Here is a pretty funny take on the Presidential debate. It's from Mad TV. I usually don't find Mad TV that funny but this is worth taking a look. If you liked "This Land Is Your Land" from JibJab, then you will probably like this too. Makes fun of both candidates. Enjoy.

Mad TV Debate

thomes08 · « **Reply #107 on:** October 07, 2004, 02:51:00 PM »

Baner · « **Reply #108 on:** October 08, 2004, 06:33:00 AM »

I'm not downplaying insurance. I think it's one of the best things ever. What does that have to do with healthcare? I don't see how my taxes, paying for an immigrant woman, who doesn't have a job, get sugery on her leg becuase her abusive husband pushed her down the stairs, helps this nation in anyway.
Sure, my family got lucky, but you really think we had a huge array of jobs my parents could work for? Considering A. My mom spoke very little english (arabic) B. We had no legal papers C. Everything our family owned fit into 2 suitcases (lack of nice clothing). Sure, it takes luck, but why give money to people who don't even try to find a job. If they don't get rid of these, they need major reforms.
I had asma when I was younger, before we had health insurance. My parents had to pay for medical bills and prescription drugs paycheck after paycheck. Sure, it was hard, but not impossible. Just because helathcare doesn't pay for your medical expenses, doesn't mean that's the only way to take care of the payments.
My parents are smart enough to get health insurance, my brother gets free health insurance thru his work, (Costco) which paid for the removal of a sist he had (allowing him to pay far much less for the surgery), and I get free health insurance thru the company I work for, (Jackson Emc, for any of you Gwinnett/Duluth residents of the forums)But I guess because my family managed their money well, they should be penelized by paying for other's bills.
Sorry for how jumbled this post is, I was trying to go back and cover all points, tell me if I missed something.
Edit: Luck did play a large role, but that doesn't explain why we are where we are now. Initiative played a much larger role.

thomes08 · « **Reply #109 on:** October 08, 2004, 11:57:00 AM »

fine whatever be an ass to everyone who didn't get lucky. Be an ass to the people who come over here legally who have to struggle harder than you because they didn't get a lucky as you did

Ween311 · « **Reply #110 on:** October 08, 2004, 12:30:00 PM »

melon · « **Reply #111 on:** October 08, 2004, 02:40:00 PM »

I know i said i would nt post again but its moved on.

baner and ween I know what your talking about exactly. And ween maybe with hindsight i meant people more like nemt.
My mum was an economic immigrant from a tiny village in Ireland, I was brought up in a part of the country which is so poor and rough, people outside of the city are instantly weary of you. . I was brought up in poverty just like a lot of my friends. it was normal to help a neighbour push start their car. I dont know how but i managed to somehow go to university. I was the only one out of all my friends. This has allowed me earn decent money even though i watched people spending all their student loan on a coat when i had to live for 3 months on mine.
My upbringing is why i am quite left wing in my politics. I want to help out people less fortunate than myself because i know how lucky i am to not be down there.
Thats why i dont understand people like yourselves.

I can understand well off people supporting a right wing government because even if they are being selfish they will benefit.
That is why Bush has all the corporations and the richest men on his side. He is looking out for the rich, look at the background of 99% of the conservative party (our right wing), they are all very rich people from upper class backgrounds who have "movwed up the social ladder".

I look at the left wing parties and i see ex miners and dockers. ok most of the Labour and Lib Dems (even more left), our middle class themselves, but they are not upper class and our deputy primeminister is even working class like me.

There policies involve spreading wealth to give more opurtunites for people who dont have them, so that in 10 years time there will be more people from our backgrounds.

You argue about kids not wanting to work or for paying for peoples benefits.
BUT, this is for my country but will be even more true in yours is, that the actual cost to the tax payer to cover peoples benefits is approximetly 10% of what would be earned in fairly taxing the super rich and the corporations that are subsidised by our governments.

It would benefit you both to support a left wing government but you choose to support one which looks after the rich.

As Bush famously said "some people call you the elite. I call you my base"

I really would like you to explain why you do.

The unProfessional · « **Reply #112 on:** October 08, 2004, 03:15:00 PM »

Ween311 · « **Reply #113 on:** October 08, 2004, 03:18:00 PM »

I am not looking out for the wealthy. I am not wealthy by any means. I am looking out for lower middle class people like myself that work hard for thier money and do not want to see it being wasted by our government for people that don't want to work.

I totally respect your opinion. You have supported it instead of just flaming and calling people retarded. Different opinions are what makes the world go around after all.

I am more for a "Welfare to Work" type program that teaches people job interview skills and helps them find jobs. If you are made a job offer, you would have to accept it or have a very good reason not to or else you are out of the program. People do need help sometimes and I am not just some cold hearted person that wants people to live in the streets or be denied medical care, but I also don't think it is the federal governments job to care for every lazy person in the country. I know people that when they get laid off (it happens to the best people) they think they can just chill for a couple of months because they are going to still get a paycheck for their unemployment benefits. B.S., get out there and get another job.

You were given an opportunity because you had neighbors that helped each other out and your mom probably worked hard to make sure you had the opportunity to go to university and better yourself. Too bad more people don't have the discipline that you and your mom had to be able to make due without a lot and get by on what you had. You are probably a much better person for it. You'll have a better work ethic because you have a much better appreciation for what it takes to earn that money.

thomes08 · « **Reply #114 on:** October 08, 2004, 03:35:00 PM »

The unProfessional · « **Reply #115 on:** October 08, 2004, 03:49:00 PM »

Rich company owners don't have any more or less influence on politics than rich movie stars. Rich movie stars contribute to campaigns in the same manner as republican supporters... except they also have the benefit of reaching millions of weak-minded people behind their TVs.... who are capable of voting.

thomes08 · « **Reply #116 on:** October 08, 2004, 05:34:00 PM »

melon · « **Reply #117 on:** October 11, 2004, 11:58:00 AM »

You still havnt given me any real reasons.

I can state that I belive the Conservative party, if they got into power, would destroy the NHS because they want to allow the affluent to be able stop paying their contributions. To me one of the greatest things about this country is a free health service, without the contributions of the richer proportion of the country (of which my proffesion will soon allow me to join), it would not be able to function.

The conservatives would decrease oppurtunites to those that have never had them by allowing grammer schools. This would have the effect of inner city schools having even less resources because the grammer schools would attract the better teaches would be given more money. This is looking after the people who already have wealth.

The conservatives would move us into a marginal role within Europe. Since a massive percentage of our trade is done within the EU we should be moving closer instead of being America's bitch, used and abused at need.

They would introduce tax cuts the wealthy (upper middle class and upper class), while scrapping tax benefits for the working and lower middle classes.

The Labour government (war apart), have done a lot of good. They introduced a national wage, i remember working as a waiter during the summer and earning £12 for working 6 hours, and the resteraunt manager kept the tips!

They have introduced a lot of schemes to get people into jobs and given them decent working conditions. This applies to people like us as well.
The latest law is to guarentee workers at least 27 paid days holiday a year, this used to be 20.

There are many more examples and I havnt touched on Tory policies which help out big business while squashing the small independent family owned busines'

I do have some questions.
How exactly do Bush's policies better you were a democratic party wouldnt?
Was the economy better under Clinton or Bush?
How exactly are you better off?
I just want to understand why normal people who earn a normal wage could vote Republican.

Baner · « **Reply #118 on:** October 11, 2004, 12:25:00 PM »

The unProfessional · « **Reply #119 on:** October 11, 2004, 02:09:00 PM »

Catering to the rich doesn't equate to being conservative.

We've reached a point in time where politicians of all types, colors, parties, mascots, etc have their eye on the green more than anything else.

Author Topic: The Debate (Read 782 times)