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[nemt]

QUOTE (gcskate27 @ Sep 13 2004, 01:13 PM)

sounds like youd fit right in... thinking of converting?

If you can find any post where I've clearly advocated hatred or xenophobia I just might...asshole.

[BenJeremy]

gronne truly is deluded, and very racist/religionist.

to him:

USA=Christians
Israel=Jews
Everyone else=Muslims

He defined EVERYTHING by his view of religion (i.e. only Muslims are good and pur, honest victims justified in slaughtering children)

The US is a SECULAR government. It is not defined by the religious convictions of it's leaders. I don't recall Federal, State or even local courthouses required to follow biblical law.

Even Israel is not defined by Hebrew law... it's a tolerant, democratic country with a large Muslim population.

"Palestine" has a good sized Christian population, but they aren't active in terrorist acts (why is that?).

Gronne seems to think Christians and Jews are evil, but Muslims are so good, even their shit doesn't stink. That IS deluded.

[chilin_dude]

QUOTE

I NEVER think killing is justified no matter what it's about, but taken the situation that they kill eachother, I UNDERSTAND why they want to kill the jews.

I will have to agree with part A and B to this quote.
A) I think killing is justified, someone who is willing to kill hundreds of human beings for no reason deserves to be murdered. Period.

What the fuck? You understand why they want to kill the jews? There IS not a major religion that deserves to be wiped out for any reason, so don't come round with you racist opinions.

[chilin_dude]

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We have two groups of people, 500 in one and 5000 in the other. Both groups are americans with the same beliefs e.g christians. Now, you happen to be in the group of 500, and in the group of 5000 you don't know anybody. And Iraq is about to eliminate one of these groups, but YOU are allowed to choose which group they should eliminate. Which would you choose?

I would choose the group of 500 because I would know in my heart that would be right, don't get me wrong, I would be shitting myself and would probably try to escape, hell its better to die trying than to die not trying isn't it? Plus 500 instead of 5000 is a major difference.

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That's what this is all about. If Saddam would kill 5000 iraqies, or if USA would kill 5000 other iraqies. Then you are making a choice of selecting that cerain people WILL die due to your attacks.

THis is TOTALLY different, before it was 10% that could be killed, this is exactly even... The true facts show that this is not true, yes MORE people will die in the shortrun, but over the century it will be a LOT less people that die in Iraq. And yes certain people will die due to your attacks. But these things have to be done sometimes in life or it wouldn't be so easy.

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Why did I, everyday, for at least six months after the attack on wtc, have to watch on TV how sad it was for USA to lose 3000 people in an attack? Why did we have to care about people that don't have any more value than other people? How many have mourned the equally innocent 15 000 iraqies deaths?

Yes people have mourned the attacks of 9/11 a lot more, but that is because the deaths were totally unexpected where as it was OBVIOUS to anyone that people would die in the  Iraqi war. Yes people have mourned for all these Iraqies, and it is TERRIBLY sad that so many should have to die for what seems such an unjust war, but they died while something was being achieved for latter generations. Where as the 9/11 people didn't die knowing this would make USA a better place.

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I hate all religions, but I dislike christianity more than Islam, so why should I care more about american lives? I want everyone to be considered equally valued. But religion doesn't.

Where the hell did that come from? That is a very BROAD comment that is verging on prejudice. How can you say you that everyones lives should be equally vallued after a comment like that? Heard the phrase 'pot calling the kettle black?' Guess that rings a bell?

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Please answer my first question seriously, which is about morality. Nemt could take on it as well. But someone that doesn't care if 15 000 iraqies have died might have great problems answering a moral question.

*Sigh* You obviously have no idea what we are talking about. Do you think we don't care about these deaths? Because if you do you are wrong, these people did die, leaving families behind that will be without loved noes forevers. HOWEVER as I previously stated, the loved ones that have died, have helped make Iraq better for the future, as they have helped show unity in Iraq.

[nemt]

QUOTE

Tragedy struck in Russia recently after the ill conceived, "Take a Chechen Rebel to School Day" got out of hand.

[gronne]

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I would choose the group of 500 because I would know in my heart that would be right, don't get me wrong, I would be shitting myself and would probably try to escape, hell its better to die trying than to die not trying isn't it? Plus 500 instead of 5000 is a major difference.

Seriously, I don't take that answer fo real, because NOBODY knows until it really happens. Since I don't believe 72 virgins are waiting for me in the death, it's impossible to answer the question.

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THis is TOTALLY different, before it was 10% that could be killed, this is exactly even... The true facts show that this is not true, yes MORE people will die in the shortrun, but over the century it will be a LOT less people that die in Iraq. And yes certain people will die due to your attacks. But these things have to be done sometimes in life or it wouldn't be so easy.

Yes, but maybe they don't want to die for your lovely cause, you people don't have respect for the individual life. The thing is that now Iraq will suffer from a civil war, that won't end just like that. You have definitely worsened the situation. And you CAN'T choose a life over the other.

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Yes people have mourned the attacks of 9/11 a lot more, but that is because the deaths were totally unexpected where as it was OBVIOUS to anyone that people would die in the  Iraqi war.

Yeah, and that's worse by all means.

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Where the hell did that come from? That is a very BROAD comment that is verging on prejudice. How can you say you that everyones lives should be equally vallued after a comment like that? Heard the phrase 'pot calling the kettle black?' Guess that rings a bell?

Everyone should be equally valued, there I said it. I don't think you or BJ should die because I disagree with you. I don't think muslims or jews should die either. But people that don't follow a moral order, must be taught why they're wrong e.g prison sentence. And I say moral order because laws are often not moral.

QUOTE

*Sigh* You obviously have no idea what we are talking about. Do you think we don't care about these deaths?

Nemt linked to a site where it says how many iraqies have died so far, and then he wrote But who cares. So I would say he doesn't care, I never said you didn't.

[Maximumbeing]

Christianity killed Rome.

Fuck you guys.

[BenJeremy]

QUOTE (Maximumbeing @ Sep 14 2004, 05:02 PM)

Christianity killed Rome. Fuck you guys.

Wow, that's news. It just happened, this week?

































Oh, you mean centuries ago.... Funny, looks like Rome is still standing to me, at any rate. As mentioned in the past, Judiasm and Christianity both had violent periods, but they out grew them as society became more tolerant.

One religion, however, remains mired in the middle ages with beheadings, holy wars, honor killings, torture, deception, and terrorism. do you need three guesses as to which one that might be?

[Maximumbeing]

Rome might still be standing but the empire is long gone, wise ass.


You don't find the bombing of abortion clinics to be just a bit savage?

Go Jesus!

[BenJeremy]

QUOTE (Maximumbeing @ Sep 14 2004, 05:15 PM)

Rome might still be standing but the empire is long gone, wise ass. You don't find the bombing of abortion clinics to be just a bit savage? Go Jesus!

On the bombing bit... what Arvarden said.

Christians are appalled at that behavior, and I don't recall the Pope or any of his Cardinals, Bishops or even Priests advocating such behavior.

Of course, Imams, Mullahs and Ayatollahs seem to always be spouting off in support of terrorists.

Big Difference.


Christians don't go around enforcing Leviticus with lethal force or punishment, do thay?

[BenJeremy]

QUOTE (Arvarden @ Sep 14 2004, 05:20 PM)

"One religion, however, remains mired in the middle ages with beheadings, holy wars, honor killings, torture, deception, and terrorism. do you need three guesses as to which one that might be?" Isn't the minority giving the majority a bad name or is that vice versa in your opinion?

Actually, I don't believe we are talking about a minority of Muslims in this case.... polls have shown terrorists have widespread support among other Muslims, and only a handful of Muslims have spoken out, half-heartedly, too often, against these acts in the name of Islam.

Where is the death sentence issued by an Ayatollah for all those involved in Beslan, Madrid or 9/11 for their crimes against humanity? Oh, maybe they ran out of those forms when they filled themn out against Salman Rushdie for the terrible crime of WRITING A BOOK.

[BenJeremy]

Of course, when not upset that Christians prevented us from present-day equivalents to Caligula (Clinton doesn't count?) to bugger worshipers fo the old Roman ways....


...you can always count on your Ayatollah to give great advice on livening up a party scene in the desert.

Man, with rules like that, I can see why it's such an exciting religion (erm, NOT)!

[gronne]

QUOTE

Man, with rules like that, I can see why it's such an exciting religion (erm, NOT)!

So religions must be exciting... I can stop wondering why you love wars then.

QUOTE

Christians don't go around enforcing Leviticus with lethal force or punishment, do thay?

Islam is the devil's religion and the christianity is God's religion, we know. But the christian crusades weren't nice were they. AFAIK many swedes were forced to be christians, and all of Iceland.

You're so blind thinking the muslims hate you for NO reason. If there was a devil, I know two people he supports, George W bush and Kim Il-Jung. THEY are evil, but only one of them affects the world with his evil now, and that's Bush.

[chilin_dude]

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Seriously, I don't take that answer fo real, because NOBODY knows until it really happens. Since I don't believe 72 virgins are waiting for me in the death, it's impossible to answer the question.

True I can agree with you there, no one can say how anyone would react, but I would certainly hope I would be brave and clever enough to sacrifice myself... And The bit about 72 virgins is a whole different debate... Personally I believe that there is another place after we die here, but this is obviously only MHO.

QUOTE

Yes, but maybe they don't want to die for your lovely cause, you people don't have respect for the individual life. The thing is that now Iraq will suffer from a civil war, that won't end just like that. You have definitely worsened the situation. And you CAN'T choose a life over the other.

Maybe they don't want to die, hell if I'm being honest OF COURSE they don't want to die for any cause. I wouldn't say Iraq will suffer a civil war... The place is just starting to get over the war, it will again return to peace IMO. The bit about worsening is VERY debatable, I believe we have made it WAY better in the long run, however I can agree in the short run it has been made worse.
I wasn't saying you can choose a life over another, I was saying you can choose 10 lives over 1 persons life any day of the week  

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Yeah, and that's worse by all means.

Which is worse? The fact people weren't prepared for 9/11 or the face that the Iraq's new an invasion was coming?

QUOTE

Everyone should be equally valued, there I said it. I don't think you or BJ should die because I disagree with you. I don't think muslims or jews should die either. But people that don't follow a moral order, must be taught why they're wrong e.g prison sentence. And I say moral order because laws are often not moral.

I agree with you there... If you thought I should die then I would be EXTREMELY surprised as we are simply having a good ol' debate. I agree that muslims and jews shouldn't die because of there religion... Its obvious a life is a life at first.

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Nemt linked to a site where it says how many iraqies have died so far, and then he wrote But who cares. So I would say he doesn't care, I never said you didn't.

Ok, sorry about that, maybe Nemt doesn't care, but I would say as a world, most people DO care and are very saddened by the loss of innocent people each day  

[nemt]

Find a passage in any holy scripture for any major religion other than Islam where it instructs followers to seek out and kill those of different faiths.