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[pepsik]

QUOTE (Mr. Chips @ Aug 20 2004, 03:59 AM)

But as for the quality of life, the life expectancy in North America, the wealthiest land in the world is decreasing.   diseases and depression run rampant.  Seriously, how are we better off now, because we have more technology and wealth?  The hole in the ozone increases and natural disasters, starvation and poor quality of life loom.  That. in itself, is depressing.

Nice to see someone else notices. I'm sorry don't mean to offend but I believe King Bush Jr is convinced about some sort of biblical doomsday prophecy. Just seems odd that the world is at war again, and this time religious flags are being displayed by 2 of the combatants, Israel, and the radical Isalmics. America was started by protestants and is still dominated by the same right wing agendas, and I can't think of a more right wing president. 9-11 set his little born-again mind on mission. Holy War. It's fucking scary to think that thousands of people are dying everyday because they have taken a side in this and decided to waive the flags of the almighty.

If I learned anything from xtainity it was to be a good person, the ideas of the bible are just, but I've come to the realization that the ideas are just to guide us, there is no god, you can only hope that you are worthy to know him through your actions.

Religion is a filler for lifes questions, if you can't figure them out you can always just read this book. It's for the feeble minded who can't grasp that they control their actions,  it answers the questions that everyone wants to know. In essence organized religion is the anit-depressant that keeps people level headed beacuse it gives them purpose. Metaphorically like that blankett kids never want to throw away when they are younger because they don't know how to sleep without it .


I guess what I'm trying to say is, just be a good person. The flags of religion are tainted with "sin" history tells us this. If there was a true path then we would all be saved.

[Mr. Chips]

QUOTE

The flags of religion are tainted with "sin" history tells us this. If there was a true path then we would all be saved.

are you speaking about the crusades?

[S1lenT_X]

). And yes, Christianity does fill that "hole" in human lives.

I don't say i agree with the part about no god, but i do like the answer. You have my respect (probably not that it would mean much to you, lol)  

[therebelious1]

QUOTE (nagmine @ Aug 20 2004, 03:32 AM)

Hey therebelious1 last time I checked evolution was still a theory...... do u know what a theory is? well heres a clue its not fact.

but a theory is always based on observations which are facts, so its an explanation of what we see around us

QUOTE (nagmine @ Aug 20 2004, 03:32 AM)

So you believing in a theory is just as stupid as u think of us who believe in god.

it not that i believe in the theory of evolution, its that the scientific way of dealing with things like this is fair and entirely unbiased

QUOTE (nagmine @ Aug 20 2004, 03:32 AM)

You can not 100% show me that evolution is true. So i cant show you that god is real either. So the fact is we both are fallowing faith. You have faith that a theory is true and i have faith god is true.

theories by their nature can never be taken as truth, even the "laws" of thermodynamics is still a threory, every time a theory works out ok its given a bit more credibility, but if ever its proved wrong, then the theory is either modified to work again, or binned entirely- this is the basis of any scientific research. science is never a question of faith, when faith comes into it then objectivity is lost, and its no longer science

QUOTE (nagmine @ Aug 20 2004, 03:32 AM)

Think about that? Evolution is just another religion.

wrong, look up the definition of science (dictionary.com):

QUOTE

Science is literally knowledge, but more usually denotes a systematic and orderly arrangement of knowledge. In a more distinctive sense, science embraces those branches of knowledge of which the subject-matter is either ultimate principles, or facts as explained by principles or laws thus arranged in natural order.

wheres the part about it being a religion?

pepsik: good explanation, marx's exact quote was:

QUOTE

Religion is the opiate of the masses

he got it pretty much bang on

[S1lenT_X]

QUOTE

when faith comes into it then objectivity is lost, and its no longer science

therebellious1,
but where else does objectivity come from. Man's mind? What proof is there that man's mind is the ultimate source of objectivity? Where else? What we see around us? Again, what we see around us is processed by the brain. What proof do we have that the brain is correct.
Where does your objectivity come from? We choose faith in God. God becomes our source of objectivity? Science based on objectivity from God is just as "scientific" as objectivity which is derived from the mind of man.

Or do you have another answer? If so (and i am sure you do) please tell us.

[therebelious1]

QUOTE (S1lenT_X @ Aug 20 2004, 05:08 PM)

Or do you have another answer? If so (and i am sure you do) please tell us.

nope, theres no point- its just gonna waste a few mins of my life, then you're just gonna tell me i'm wrong. so neither of us have anything to gain, and i could be doing more constructive things like trying to explain quantum physics to a friggin chipmunk

i'm starting to realise that christians have chosen to take fairytales and fiction as being truth, once that happens logic and reason are long gone- i hope you get a lot of enjoyment and fulfillment from your fairytales, but do me one favour- in future, please think twice about ramming religion down peoples throat; they may not want it

[S1lenT_X]

By the way rebellious1, do you realize that i AM only 15??? So teaching quantum physics to a chipmunk.....
Like i have said over and over... It's just a discussion... though it is probably getting a bit too heated now....

Thanks for being a bit more reasonable ButterB. And like you, neither do i have all of the answers. In fact, several of my posts previous to this, have had holes in them big enough to drive a truck through!

According to man's description of science, it requires objectivity in order to be "plausible." However, "faith" is very much subjective. I have chosen it subjectively in my mind.

I don't have a brilliant answer to that question. I have tried answering in several ways, but keep coming to a dead end. Right now it's 2:00 Pm, and i am as tired as anything... maybe i will have a better answer tomorrow.....

[ButtersB]

I believe that natural evolution will only take a species so far, and to take humans as an example, we have evolved far enough to be able to override some of our natural impulses. We started off as animals, and evolution has given us the intellect necessary to allow us to take ourselves to the next level, which is technological evolution.  The next major steps in humanity have already started to take place. Genetic engineering and human/computer interaction will make us more than we currently are. As a race, we strive to be better than we are, and so when we saw birds flying, we had to make it happen for ourselves, and now we have computers that can do many things that we cannot, so we will begin to integrate some of those abilities into ourselves. There are other creatures in nature that can do things that would benefit us, such as some reptiles being able to re-grow limbs when cut off. Via scientific and technological methods, we will eventually work out how to do this as well.

Evolution has provided us with a marvellously constructed body and instincts, and its final gift to us was intellect. With that intellect, we have created our own morals. You say that religion has given us these morals, but i disagree. I believe that religion grew out of these morals, and the desire for people to follow the same moral code as you do (from the perspective of whatever group or individual created the religion).

My morals are my own and nobody elses, no religion tells me i have to be a good person, I am a good person (within my own moral code) because i want to be, not because i'm frightened of being sent to hell if i'm not.

ButtersB

Edit: Hmm, this seems to have become a discussion about evolution, oh well.

[therebelious1]

QUOTE (nagmine @ Aug 20 2004, 06:48 PM)

To therebelious1 Since you believe in science and science only what makes you think killing is bad ? I mean if evoltution is true then what was wrong with hitler purifying his race so they could evolve faster. I mean isnt evolution all about survival of the fittest anyways. thats something that makes me laugh about science ... ofcourse im sure scrientist will say ooh killing is bad but hell show me some scientfic proof haha. The fact is the only thing that shows that killing is bad is morals caused by religion. Your basic morals  not killing,  not stealing , not raping where do you find these things in science. The fact is you dont cause in natures all those things happen all the time .  So where do your morals come from? also how you had to hook up stuff in the dictonay to show me what science means because you became offeneded i was showing u how science was. lol still make it sound like its a religion.  If scientist found that evolution wasnt true and found another idea , you would just jump to that with out even thinking. You still have to have faith . The fact that you ur self can not show that evolution is true and is just fallowing some other scientist example .... hmmm sounds alot like religion and yeah you have faith in that scientist

so are you saying man cannot be good to his fellow man without there being religious influence?

hence everyone who isnt religious is evil?

people dont follow "the scientist", they look at his work, and learn from his work, then maybe add to his work, its not like the scientific community follows one leader, but "[you] was showing [me] how science was" who am i to disagree

edit: dead on ButtersB

[therebelious1]

you have so many misconceptions about evolutionary science that seriously dude, it sounds like you heard all you know about evolution from a strongly devoted (read biased) christian or creationist- go read a textbook and make up your own judgements

how old are you btw?

[therebelious1]

well you clearly didnt pay much attention

(in an ULTRA basic way) evolution theorises that apes and humans have common ancestors

that doesnt mean that in the evolutionary scheme of things than xxx became primates, then became humans and left some apes behind. it means that xxx changed into many different sub-species, two of which happen to be apes and humans.

maybe you should have taken evolution a little less personally

[AnThRaX]

QUOTE (nagmine @ Aug 19 2004, 10:24 AM)

Hey  S1lenT_X yeah im sorry for my outburst. That wasnt very christian of me.  I always have more respect for people who atleast try to learn. But when people just take life like anthrax i tend to get angry. When you say you hate religion its almost like saying i hate how this country is founded thus all my rights i have today. But even though people are like that you should still show them love and understanding Im we all get confused one time in our life. so sorry to anthrax or anyone else i offended

That thing about the country thing is just BS, that's like saying everyone here should believe in GOD just because they live here. I know that the English came here to seek religion, but they were serious back then about it, unlike now, they were willing to sacrifice there own lives for religion. But, I don't believe I need god in life. I don't take LIFE for granted. Unless you can PROVE to me with FACTS not a big ass book that has been reedited countless times including King James (I think that was the King at the time) He pretty much reedited EVERYTHING. So anything about the Marriage and other crap that you seem to follow might be coming from him not just from your so called God.

[nagmine]

people came here seeking freedom of religion. Thats what we got you have the right not believe anything I say. But the fact that they came here seeking freedom of religion gave you that right. You could be born in a islamic country and not have the right of  believeing what u want. Thats my point you got to have a little respect .

[AnThRaX]

QUOTE (nagmine @ Aug 20 2004, 06:09 PM)

people came here seeking freedom of religion. Thats what we got you have the right not believe anything I say. But the fact that they came here seeking freedom of religion gave you that right. You could be born in a islamic country and not have the right of  believeing what u want. Thats my point you got to have a little respect .

I agree but, you need to have respect to my point of views as well. Regardless.

[Mr. Chips]

QUOTE

well you clearly didnt pay much attention (in an ULTRA basic way) evolution theorises that apes and humans have common ancestors that doesnt mean that in the evolutionary scheme of things than xxx became primates, then became humans and left some apes behind. it means that xxx changed into many different sub-species, two of which happen to be apes and humans. maybe you should have taken evolution a little less personally

originally , yes.  It is said that Apes reproduced until they were humans.  But now when the say whales evolved into land animals...., well you have be a little skeptical about that.  
And Dinosaurs, sprouting wings, it's simply not true.  The theory goes that the scales evolved into feathers, did you know?  There still hasnt been any findings of that.  Well, there was one "Archoplyonix" or something.  That was proven to be a fake made in china.