Print

[thomes08]

yeah it's rather upsetting that i don't see Kerry slaming Bush as much as i think he should.  If you're going to play dirty politics (and it's already too late to not do that from both sides) then you might as well go all out.  I see Bush commercials all the time around here but NOT ONE kerry commercial.  Maybe it's because i'm in Indiana and maybe it's because his budget is lower, but it's rather upsetting.  I read somewhere recently that the dems are pushing for him to find a new campaign manager with one that will do so.  I agree cause when you're the butt of all the bad things being said then things look a little onesided to someone who doesn't know any better.  Or a "moron" as i guess they're called around here

thomes08

[bluedeath]

Arnold's speech writer toiled many days to write a speech that would make him sound intelligent and not sound like a burned out roider.  Give the speech writer some credit.  Look what he had to work with.

[thomes08]

i agree, i mean he wasn't up there because of being a great politition he was up there because he's arnold and happened to be a politition.  But if they're going to make him sound like a really bad stand-up comic they should have made it "smart funny" not "idiot funny".

example:


SCHWARZENEGGER: Thank you very much. Thank you. What a greeting. What a greeting. Wow. This is like winning an Oscar -- as if I would know.

(LAUGHTER)

Speaking of acting, one of my movies was called "True Lies." And that's what the Democrats should have called their convention.

(APPLAUSE)

You know, on the way up here to the podium, a gentleman came up to me and said, "Governor, you are as good a politician as you were an actor." What a cheap shot.

(LAUGHTER)

Cannot believe it.





see

thomes08

[pug_ster]

QUOTE

"We're the America that fights not for imperialism but for human rights and democracy ... When that lone, young Chinese man stood in front of those tanks in Tiananmen Square, America's hopes stood with him. And when Nelson Mandela smiled in an election victory after all those years in prison, America celebrated, too." This was Hallmarkian history. Schwarzenegger neglected to mention that not too long after the Tiananmen Square massacre Bush the Elder moved to improve ties with the butchers of Beijing and that Ronald Reagan -- hero to Schwarzenegger and every other Republican in the room -- supported the racist regime that had imprisoned Mandela (and that a congressman named Dick Cheney had opposed imposing sanctions against the apartheid government of South Africa).

[The unProfessional]

QUOTE

I don't think I didn't anything wrong by skewing it. If it offends you, please say why.

Okay, I guess I have to explain why it's completely fallacious.

QUOTE

I just think his speech is nice but it is full of BS because of his view on what is the definition of a Republican

I'll just interpret that as:
"Hybrids get better gas mileage than gas-powered cars."


Do you see the problem?  I stated a fact, although it isn't what you said.  If you really need to know why it bothers me, it's a classic Straw man.  Read.

[pug_ster]

QUOTE (The unProfessional @ Sep 2 2004, 06:43 PM)

Okay, I guess I have to explain why it's completely fallacious. I'll just interpret that as: "Hybrids get better gas mileage than gas-powered cars." Do you see the problem?  I stated a fact, although it isn't what you said.  If you really need to know why it bothers me, it's a classic Straw man.  Read.

Jeez, I guess I mastered the Straw man Technique, I didn't know about it until today.  I really wanted to mean what the opposite of what it said, like a paradox.  

Eg.  If you believe that government should be accountable to the people, not the people to the government, then you are a Republican.  

Bush's Republican government didn't held themselves accountable to the people because of what happened in Abu Ghraib.

Eg. If you believe your family knows how to spend your money better than the government does, then you are a Republican.

Bush's Republican government gave the rich Tax cuts and government ran to a deficit as a result.

Are you satisified now?  I guess this is the kind of word games that the Republicans and Democrats play all the time, guess I am getting too political:)

[thomes08]

QUOTE (pug_ster @ Sep 2 2004, 04:26 PM)

I heard the Kerry Campaign is going to Shell out money on 20 States recently which is considered important.  Thomes08, my friend, I feel sorry for you living in Indiana because it is considered as Bush country.  I live in NYC myself and being pro-Bush here is not considered popular.  You won't hear any local media saying any anti-Kerry stuff here.  I would imagine that it will not be true where you live. Bluedeath, I never said that Arnold's speech was a bad speech.  In fact, it is a very conviencing speech.  However, if you can sort out the BS from the truth, especially about 'being republican.'  I quote from the article here. http://www.cbsnews.c...ain640071.shtml And I quote from this article.

yeah i just read he is is going to another 13 states other than the 7 he is in now.  http://www.cnn.com/2...s.ap/index.html


wow we live in different areas for sure.  I used to be like that republican in NYC, but now more and more people around here are straying from their parents POV and making their own which is usually against bush but not really for kerry.  Most people around here don't know a damn about politics, they either know they hate bush or like him.  If they hate bush they have their resons why if they like him i find that they don't have reasons why.  A good extremely republican friend of mine replied "can i sit on that question for a while" when i asked him "well what do you like about bush".  He never got back to me on that.  They don't know what to think about clinton cause they weren't at all into politics then.

Basically the politics around here used to be like a disease passed down through the family.  Not it's getting all messed up cause bush is making some think for themselves and some live in denial.  it's really hard to tell who you're going to offend.


thomes08

[nemt]

John Kerry spends too much time trying to defend his war record, all he's really doing is shooting himself in the foot with his irrelevent campaign speeches.  On a positive note, though, maybe he'll get another purple heart for it.

[thomes08]

i completely agree that he is playing right into the trap set by the people trying to discredit it.

thomes08

[pug_ster]

QUOTE (nemt @ Sep 2 2004, 08:39 PM)

John Kerry spends too much time trying to defend his war record, all he's really doing is shooting himself in the foot with his irrelevent campaign speeches.  On a positive note, though, maybe he'll get another purple heart for it.

I think you should start reading on your current events.  You don't see much ads from Swiftvets for Lies anymore.  By now, most Americans know that these ads are not true so it is not an effective tool.  The republicans by now said that Kerry has served 'honorably' in war if you haven't watched the speeches in the RNC.  Now there's a new bucketload of ads about his protest in Vietnam War.

Of course there are faults in Kerry's Campaign.  For one thing, Kerry wasn't very charismatic.  Kerry appeared in a talkshow with someone (I forgot his name) and he was more stoic than relaxed.  Many democrats will vote for him but don't really know him becuase he didn't really take advantage when the media spotlight was on him.

It was starkly different from what Clinton did when he was playing a Saxophone in 1992 in the Arsenio Hall show shows that there is a human side of Clinton.  

However, Kerry does have an advantage because he Bush's stubborness and his reluctance to hear critism.  Personally, Edwards might have a very good chance to be president because of his charisma and his ability to communicate, something that Kerry and Bush does not have.

[dss311]

QUOTE

By now, most Americans know that these ads are not true so it is not an effective tool.

Yea right.  All these former war veterans are lying and one veteran sides with Kerry.  Why?

QUOTE

Of course there are faults in Kerry's Campaign. For one thing, Kerry wasn't very charismatic. Kerry appeared in a talkshow with someone (I forgot his name) and he was more stoic than relaxed. Many democrats will vote for him but don't really know him becuase he didn't really take advantage when the media spotlight was on him.

Charisma shouldn't influence people's views on a canidate but more often than not I think it does.  Kerry and Chenney are very unappealing canidates but they do have their stong points.  

On the other hand,
Clinton and Edwards are charming politians and they have quite a few faults.  However, their personalites often help them achieve results that might not have been attainable otherwise.

Regarding Bush;
I think he was very "green" when he went into office and it showed early on in his speaches.  Since 9-11 I believe he has overcome his short comings and is now a very effective speaker.  Tonights campaign speach will be interesting.  

[67thRaptorBull]

QUOTE (dss311 @ Sep 2 2004, 04:08 PM)

Yea right.  All these former war veterans are lying and one veteran sides with Kerry.  Why?

its already been discussed

because 197 of those vetarns werent even on kerry's boat, let alone next to him in combat during his "purple heart situations"

[thomes08]

raptor you took the words right out of my fingers... don't bring that up again



eidt:  dark link you don't agree with what he said or with what arnold said?

[Dark_Link2135]

QUOTE (thomes08 @ Sep 2 2004, 11:18 PM)

raptor you took the words right out of my fingers... don't bring that up again eidt:  dark link you don't agree with what he said or with what arnold said?

QUOTE

If you believe that this country should be an Isolationist, then you are a Republican.

QUOTE

If you believe a person should be treated as a member of an interest group, not treated as an individual, then you are a Republican.

im a little confused about hte whole situation here because i havnt been here a couple of days

if the quote above is what Arnold said, then yes, i do NOT agree with him.

if the quote above is what dss311 thinks, then yes, i do NOT agree with him.

oh wait, i did find one i agreed with:

QUOTE

If you believe in your country can run into a deficit so that you can give tax breaks to the Rich, then you are a Republican.

i obviouslt dont think running the country into a deficit is a good thing, but thats kind of hard not to do during wartime.

anywho, what i do agree with is giving tax breaks to the rich.  we have 20% of people paying 80% of taxes, and 80% of people paying 20% of taxes.

hardly fair, imo.

plus, when the rich have more money (rich means over 200k a year salary), that means more people get jobs, it filters down so to speak.  most of these people own small businesses, local-town type of stuff if you know what i mean, and then they can hire more people if they have more money.

im in favor of a flat tax rate for everyone.  our current system punishes success.

[67thRaptorBull]

QUOTE (Dark_Link2135 @ Sep 2 2004, 05:23 PM)

yes but still, i mean you have 197 versus kerry and a few shipmates...i mean, you must admit, the odds are against him.  dont get me wrong, im not saying that you have to agree with me that kerry is a liar, just that you should obviouslt see the odds are against him telling the truth.  dont get me wrong, there is a small chance that his is telling the truth (or mostly) about the silver-medal incident, but the odds are against it.

your still not getting it are you??


those 197 people were NO WHERE NEAR KERRY

the only people near kerry at the time of the incidents, or the only people on his boat all testified in favor of kerry

now isnt it a coinidence all the people that testified against him were not only no where near him at the times, but are also tied to the republican party in some way