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[Heet]

I'll give them a couple bucks if the decendents of the slave masters in Africa give.

[gronne]

 But I do it only by the fact that I want to leave home asap and to learn to take care of my own life. When I signed up 2 years ago I was so certain Sweden will never go to war during my lifetime that it only seemed like a year of fun with new friends and a way to get away from my parents and come to a city. During this time I almost haven't thought about the weapons training at all. During these 2 years I've grown up in my mind a lot. I'm against violence, and if it wasn't for my joining the army I'd probably be a pacifist. Right now I feel like the biggest hypocrite ever But as I said, my urge to get away from my parents was too big to miss this chance.

Unfortunately I'm no longer certain there won't be a war sometime, as we might get attacked in the future. Maybe I will defend my country then, but I rather go to jail for a year than participating in a war where we are the attackers.

Most soldiers don't understand/care why their leader wants them to attack others, they do it for their "country", they attack because they're being told to, no questions asked. Completely insane if you ask me. I would absolutely refuse to kill other people without an insanely good reason.

So Billy: it's THEIR choice to join the army and risk their lives because they're trigger-happy-idiots. They shouldn't get anything more than others. If there were no soldiers there'd be no wars.

[BenJeremy]

QUOTE (gronne @ Jul 18 2004, 11:16 PM)

Seriously, soldiers are idiots that only want some action. If they say they're doing it in the name of their country it's only a bonus for their crazy heads. I have yet to find soldiers that don't do it by any other reasons than for the action they want. It's like hackers, they don't hack M$ only to show that the internet security is bad(which it is anyway), as many of them say. That's pure bull, they only want to have the fun and feel the extreme power in actually making it. That being said, I'm joining the army in august  But I do it only by the fact that I want to leave home asap and to learn to take care of my own life. When I signed up 2 years ago I was so certain Sweden will never go to war during my lifetime that it only seemed like a year of fun with new friends and a way to get away from my parents and come to a city. During this time I almost haven't thought about the weapons training at all. During these 2 years I've grown up in my mind a lot. I'm against violence, and if it wasn't for my joining the army I'd probably be a pacifist. Right now I feel like the biggest hypocrite ever But as I said, my urge to get away from my parents was too big to miss this chance. Unfortunately I'm no longer certain there won't be a war sometime, as we might get attacked in the future. Maybe I will defend my country then, but I rather go to jail for a year than participating in a war where we are the attackers. Most soldiers don't understand/care why their leader wants them to attack others, they do it for their "country", they attack because they're being told to, no questions asked. Completely insane if you ask me. I would absolutely refuse to kill other people without an insanely good reason. So Billy: it's THEIR choice to join the army and risk their lives because they're trigger-happy-idiots. They shouldn't get anything more than others. If there were no soldiers there'd be no wars.

Wow. Truly an ignorant take on the military. The American military is made up of a wide variety of people, from all walks of life, and all sorts of creeds and beliefs; it's a volunteer outfit, and recognized as the best in the world by all those who know enough to judge such things. Most militaries are comprised of a good cross-section of their fellow countrymen; making them out to be some sort of brainwashed "Rambos" is moronic on the highest order.

Hopefully, your experience will open your mind up a bit.

[Moleman]

Also, we would then have to pay the slaves than ran away to Canada and other countries. And what about the blacks who never had an ancestor as a slave, like the ones who moved in from other countries after slavery was abolished?  What if a person had more slave ancestors than another?  Should they get more reparation money?  The records of the time were just not accurate enough at the time to give out reparations in a just manner, even if the reparations were just.  If one person was sent free to college by mistake, then it will have failed.

[gronne]

QUOTE (BenJeremy @ Jul 19 2004, 03:59 AM)

Wow. Truly an ignorant take on the military. The American military is made up of a wide variety of people, from all walks of life, and all sorts of creeds and beliefs; it's a volunteer outfit, and recognized as the best in the world by all those who know enough to judge such things. Most militaries are comprised of a good cross-section of their fellow countrymen; making them out to be some sort of brainwashed "Rambos" is moronic on the highest order. Hopefully, your experience will open your mind up a bit.

Yeah I'm sure they come from all walks of life, but I also know they have a love for violence. Did you join the army?
I'm not saying they can't be intelligent, Hitler was intelligent but "rather" violent (yeah, he only gave orders, but the way he killed the jews was awful to say the least). You seem intelligent, but you have unmoral thoughts(IMO, definitely not your). Why do you think CS is the most sold game ever? Is it only because of the nice tactics in it? No, it's the violence. Women don't play action games in the same amount as men do, right? They play a lot more games that need intelligence than we do. My cousine is one of the smartest persons I know, but I also know that he joined the army because of the action. He always bragged about what weapons they used blaha blaha. It's in the human(male) nature to get a kick out of violence.

When I signed up the person next to me kept talking about shooting the head of a person. I told him he was a f*****g idiot. They gave him a 9(best) in the psychology-test(they do this to see if you're capable of killing others), meaning they send him to the front. I was sure they'd never let an idiot like that through.
I bet 85% of all the soldiers(except the forced one's) that went to Iraq were excited to get in action with the iraqies, to "defend" USA. The rest did it for the money.

It's the same with racing driver's. They have a thrill for speed, mostly BECAUSE it's dangerous, yet they can be intelligent. When you were 3 and your mom said "don't walk that mountain", you were 5 minutes later jumping on the top of it.

Soldiers are morons eventhough some are intelligent.

I've never said the US army isn't the strongest, which I suppose it is. But you're proud of it. I'd be ashamed to throw that much tax on murderer's.

[melon]

About making payments to slaves decendents, we should all claim from the Italians.
Rome conquered europe so people in the UK can claim as they were enslaved and our women raped, and since America was founded by Europeans you all have a right to claim.
Why not go back even further to when the Saxons or Vikings conquered Britain. We were all enslaved!

The argument is stupid and null and void. Its things like this which seperate people. African Americans are reminded of past atrocities which belong, in the past. It is the same reason Germans has never been allowed to forget about the two world wars even though they where 60 years ago.

Let the past stay in the past.

[gcskate27]

QUOTE (beaumac @ Jul 19 2004, 11:25 AM)

This is probably the most fallacious argument I have ever read. Pretty funny though. The problem 99% of the posts here is that you either have no grasp of history of slavery in america and/or are too egotistical to think outside of your own lives or ancestry.  There hasnt been a single rebuttal with any sort of factual basis, but there is a ton of ignorance.  Adios

how can there be any sort of factual basis on the results of a program that hasnt been implemented? its purely speculation, which you are doing yourself, ie "it would help to end racism"...

beaumac, you are like a child... because noone is agreeing with you, you arent going to play... well good riddance, its annoying enough "arguing" with people like you...  

[gronne]

Beaumac: Your intentions are nice with how you think they should get reparations, but I'm afraid the consequence would have the opposite effect. Meaning racism would be a growing issue, and that's not what the black, or white, people want.
I'm glad you seem to have good morals. But sometimes it's just not that easy to solve a problem.

[melon]

Can you imagine poor white famlies wondering why there taxes are being given to black famlies. They would feel bitter towards the African Americans because they would see it as unfair.

It would be better to try and stop the rampant racism which still exists in both our countries (KKK and BMP), that is an issue which still needs addressing. Before nemt says  Colin Powell is black what do you mean racism? How many company directors are black?

In our country a lot of the best footballers are black, in the England team 4 out of the first choice 11 are. But if you look at the managers in the top division (we have 4 proffesional leagues, millions of amatuer), there are no black managers and no black club owners.

This is just an example but throughout virtually all industry the lowest workers e.g. cleaners are dispaportionatly black.

[Spency234]

[Reaper527]

QUOTE (RiotMasterMeth @ Jul 16 2004, 12:09 AM)

How nice, the old go back to africa speach eh? That just goes to show that you obviously have something against African Americans.

(responding to multiple posts here, didn't bother to copy/paste/quote tag most of them, all where on page 1)
not true, i say "love it or leave it" regardless of race/gender/religion etc. there are plenty of successful black people also, just look at the nba for example (not trying to be stereotypical, just using it as an example). someone already said it and is dead on accurate, if we give all african americans money or free education, what about the indians? the irish? the italian? and everyone else who has been discrimated against in the countries history. with your logic, the irish were discrimated against when they came  to america and due to racism it was next to impossible for them to get a job, i'm half irish so i should be entitled to a free college education