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Author Topic: Face It Bush Failed  (Read 790 times)

thomes08

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Face It Bush Failed
« Reply #45 on: July 10, 2004, 06:35:00 PM »

QUOTE (nfs911 @ Jul 11 2004, 03:06 AM)
BUSH HAS DONE NOTHING WRONG. IF WE WOULDNT OF GONE TO WAR, WE ALL MIGHT OF BEEN KILLED!!!!! PLEASE GIVE ME THE ARTICLE WERE IT SAYS THAT THE US KILLED THAT CHILD!!!!!!! AND NO, BUSH DID NOT KILL THEM HIMSELF......SO YOU ARE SAYING THAT FRANKLIN ROOSEVELT KILLED ALOT OF PEOPLE IN WORLD WAR 2 BECAUEE HE WAS THE PRESIDENT??? YOU ARE SAYING THAT ANY PRESIDENT THAT HAS A WAR WITH ANOTHER COUNTRY IS RESPONSILBE FOR ALL DEATHS???????? AND SINCE WHERE IS THERE SUCH THING AS AN ILLEGAL WAR??????????


BUSH SENT THEM THERE FOR A REASON, THE US COULD OF BEEN BLOWN UP AS WELL AS OTHER COUNTRIES. BRITIAN, SPAIN, ITALY, AUSTRIALA, THEY ARE IN THIS WAR ALSO, HOW COME EVERYONE IS BLAMING BUSH? BUNCH OF FRICKEN LIBERALS!

IF THE LIBERALS WERE IN POWER, THE US WOULD PROBABLY HAVE BEEN BLOWN UP!!! WE WOULD OF NEVER WENT TO WAR, TERROISM WOULD OF OCCURED, AND WE COULD OF ALL DIED.

yeah seriously......... you're 13 right?


edit:  Nicely put raptor.... i think even he may be able to understand this.

Note to all true republicans..... please tell this kid to stop posting, some of you have good points and know a thing or 2 about politics, but this kid is seriously dampening my respect for you.

edit2:  Raptor what state are you in?  i was just wondering if your vote will count.  Mine won't as i am in indiana..... yeah a little outnumbered here but if anybody knowns anything about hoosiers is that they're not the brightest (or healthy for that matter) bunch.  FUCKING EC taking my vote away! mad.gif
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67thRaptorBull

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Face It Bush Failed
« Reply #46 on: July 10, 2004, 06:54:00 PM »

QUOTE (thomes08 @ Jul 10 2004, 09:35 PM)
yeah seriously......... you're 13 right?


edit:  Nicely put raptor.... i think even he may be able to understand this.

Note to all true republicans..... please tell this kid to stop posting, some of you have good points and know a thing or 2 about politics, but this kid is seriously dampening my respect for you.

edit2:  Raptor what state are you in?  i was just wondering if your vote will count.  Mine won't as i am in indiana..... yeah a little outnumbered here but if anybody knowns anything about hoosiers is that they're not the brightest (or healthy for that matter) bunch.  FUCKING EC taking my vote away! mad.gif

im from ohio, the so called, "deciding" state this year

whats sad is gore when the election last time, but never become president, so maybe this year will be better  unsure.gif
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thomes08

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Face It Bush Failed
« Reply #47 on: July 10, 2004, 06:56:00 PM »

i hope bush wins the popular vote, but loses in the EC.  Then both sides will be bitter about the EC and get rid of it.  Imagine if we got rid of the EC and made election day a holiday how many people would actually vote.  Ohio..... do your best to get people over to the left

thomes08
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67thRaptorBull

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Face It Bush Failed
« Reply #48 on: July 11, 2004, 12:21:00 PM »

QUOTE (polyesterjones @ Jul 11 2004, 01:25 AM)
I do not think Bush screwed up.  I completely back this war, and why we are in this war.  

Face it; Iraq was indeed in breach of its restraints that were placed upon it after the Gulf War had taken place.  Iraq was not to have a military; it did.  Is that not enough justification for war?  These were not laws placed upon Iraq just by the United States, these were laws placed upon Iraq by countries all over the world.  It is just a shame that Britain and we were the only ones to do anything about this.

Saddam was, simply by the nature of his demeanor, a weapon (WMD, if you will).  This is a man who kills his own people using chemicals produced by his country.  He oppresses and murders his own people without any ill remorse.  This crazed man should not be allowed to have weapons, which he did, illegally.  He should not be allowed a military, which he did have, illegally.  To let him stand by, and further develop his armaments is a substantial threat to us, and other innocents in the Middle East.  

What could he do to use?  Well, take a look at Al Qaeda.  They did not have as much structure as the whole of Iraq.  However, they were still able to come together and plan a massive attack on United States soil, which killed thousands of mothers, fathers, daughters, and sons.  Sure, they might not be able to develop a nuclear weapon deliverable to the US, but you do not need a nuke to kill Americans, and other people.  

The Iraqis, the crazed Saddam loyalists, for which there were many, were not nice people by any stretch of the imagination.  They were just as apt to kill innocent people as Saddam himself was.  We need to rid the world of these religious totalitarianistic.  Not only are they in Iraq, but also they are all over the Middle East, in general.  Now, I am not suggesting another holocaust should be put into the works.    Our growing presence in the middle east, with the establishing of democracies, is the only way to do this without being as bad as Saddam or Hitler were themselves.  We desperately need changing of ideals in the Middle East before all hell breaks loose.  This war is one of many steps that will take place in order to do this, not only for the US, but also for everyone.

These people are more than willing to commit acts of terrorism to get their point across, to further their cause.  They are as fanatical as the World War 2 era Germans.  Look at the constantly ongoing battle between the Israelis and the Palestinians, for example.  People are more than willing to blow themselves up, killing others in the process, to get their point across.  You know that every other country in the Middle East doesn't disapprove of this besides, of course, Israel.  What do you think would happen to the Israelis if we had absolutely no presence in the Middle East?  Over 6 million people would die, but not without the use of nuclear bombs.  Israelis are tough people, and they are also completely surrounded by enemy countries.  If they were to get into an all out war, Israel would use the nuclear weapons it possesses, without a doubt.  How can we allow this to happen?

The United States cannot, and should not, stand by whilst another holocaust us taking place, whether it be just 100 miles from us, or 12000 miles away.  To help others and give other oppressed people a free life is our job.  What would the world be like if we didn't care?  Establishing a democracy is the only way to prevent crap that this from happening.  Sure we may not see results in the next couple of years, but positive results will result of us allowing people in the middle east to get a taste for freedom, because once you taste freedom, you will never go back.  

Unfortunately, we have quite a problem with establishing a democracy in the Middle East.  Saudi Arabia.   Saudi Arabia is known to harbor terrorists, and is also known to teach anti-American as well as anti-"other than Arab" beliefs.  So why aren't we chasing after them?  

Oil.

Saudi Arabia has oil.  We cannot afford to do away with their oil, and the money we may make from their oil without a big hit to our economy.  I don't care if you are Bush, Clinton, or Kerry.  No one will have the balls to sever ties with the Saudis, at least no one with enough balls to do that will ever be elected by peace loving Americans.  Well, as we speak, there are groups out in Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Egypt, and many other countries plotting to kill Americans.  To say they are not would be ignorant.  99.9% of what they plan will never follow through, but there still is that massive threat of having that .01% happen.  


I see I have been rambling on, but everything translates into this-

We need to establish democracy in the Middle East.  A whole section of the planet is anti-American, for the most part.  To not take steps to rid us of this anti-American sentiment is dangerous to us as Americans, and others as supporters of America.  You may not like how this sounds, but the American government’s job is to keep American running.  To ensure the existence of America.  The government will do what it must, without resorting to the blatant and senseless killing of all anti-American believers (because we are better than that), to make sure that we will never leave this planet.  Face it, in the government's eye, I do not care if you are republican, liberal, or democrat, anybody that is anti-American is a threat to our existence.

The Iraqi war is just another step to change ideals, and WMDs was the horse we rode in on.  We will establish a democracy.  Albeit, it will be slow going, for they have yet to experience true freedom because of all the groups of people still loyal to Saddam, and/or his beliefs.  After the war, and a stable democracy is rooted into the country, something will happen that'll make us have to repeat what was done with Iraq, but to another country, thus furthering our pro-freedom anti-terrorist beliefs.  

However, as I stated before, Saudi Arabia will be a large hurdle, and until the U.S.  becomes more independent of other countries, we will have a hard time dealing with their terrorist ideals.  It's wrong that money gets in the way of our safety, but that's how governments work.  

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some of what I have said, if not most, may have sounded a bit drastic if not extreme.  I do not wish to kill people; I just don't want to see any more airplanes flying into buildings with Americans in it, or any people for that matter.  

America is the glue that holds this planet together.  Without us, Europe would be in shambles, South Korea would be gone, Middle East would be a constant war, and African countries would face a poverty they have never before experienced, etcetera.  Sure I may be a nationalist, but what American shouldn't be?  

Anyways, this is just my opinion, and I hope you people respect my opinion as much as I have respected yours.

everything you just said is the whole basis of the right wing argument, and has been shot down every single time

basically, as its been said, the war was pointless, sadaam is not a threat, and now its just for oil

ie, bush fucked up
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67thRaptorBull

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Face It Bush Failed
« Reply #49 on: July 11, 2004, 12:26:00 PM »

QUOTE (polyesterjones @ Jul 11 2004, 01:25 AM)
We need to establish democracy in the Middle East.  A whole section of the planet is anti-American, for the most part.  To not take steps to rid us of this anti-American sentiment is dangerous to us as Americans, and others as supporters of America.  You may not like how this sounds, but the American government’s job is to keep American running.  To ensure the existence of America.  
The Iraqi war is just another step to change ideals, and WMDs was the horse we rode in on.  We will establish a democracy.

hahahahaha, sorry, those sentences of bullshit made me laugh

so, u feel, in order to protect america, its ok to lie about WMD's and threats, just to go into a country, fuck it up, get american soldiers killed, kill innocent civilians, pump a bunch of money that is needed here at home (-5 trillion deficit by 2010) into a country we fucked up (yes, believe it or not, at least sadaam provided a safe life and utilities to his people) then establish a democracy in the middle of a anti-american shit storm, and make others follow our beliefs

and all of this is for the good of america???

your a fucking idiot
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67thRaptorBull

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Face It Bush Failed
« Reply #50 on: July 11, 2004, 12:57:00 PM »

QUOTE (Colonel32 @ Jul 11 2004, 03:52 PM)
Great Post PolyesterJones  beerchug.gif


I don't think that humanitarian efforts were worth poking the bee hive over or had much to do with this war.  It was also strategic and some of us looking at Israel as an example don't think it was a good strategy. That is the only difference in opinions



It's happening in other places of the world right now on a much larger scale. I can't believe this was a cause for war with Iraq.  



No you are, that post didn't have any rhetoric or talking points in it whatsoever, they were his opinions. Stop posting bullshit. Guy writes a book and you come back with your an idiot, this sentences make me laugh... rolleyes.gif

that sentence made me laugh to, and im glad he wrote a book, about the same stuff thats been discussed, its all thats ever posted, the same old bullshit on why we invaded, and it has no meaning anymore

im tired of posting long posts with facts, i already posted one for NFS
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nfs911

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Face It Bush Failed
« Reply #51 on: July 11, 2004, 01:05:00 PM »

I agree with polyesterjones, bush did nothing wrong!

Oh, and 67thRaptorBull, Your saying terriosim doesnt affect the US, you are saying that we shouldnt worry about terriosim??? That sounds like a good plan man!

Oh yeah, please draw it in crayon becasue I'm a stupid republican....I dont understand anything, please photoshop what you mean, thanks!
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67thRaptorBull

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Face It Bush Failed
« Reply #52 on: July 11, 2004, 01:25:00 PM »

QUOTE (nfs911 @ Jul 11 2004, 04:05 PM)
I agree with polyesterjones, bush did nothing wrong!

Oh, and 67thRaptorBull, Your saying terriosim doesnt affect the US, you are saying that we shouldnt worry about terriosim??? That sounds like a good plan man!

Oh yeah, please draw it in crayon becasue I'm a stupid republican....I dont understand anything, please photoshop what you mean, thanks!

did i ever say terrorism isnt a threat??

myabe you mistook what i was saying, so ill say it again

1) Iraq is not a terrorists state, and it was never a threat, and besides some highly falsified documents, it was never connected to Al-queda

and this is what you took wrong

2) terrorism is a threat, but a threat that goes away, how might you ask?
If the US stops dicking around in the middle east, a place we dont belong (lets see, middle east's age is 2,000 years, US' is 250 years, wow, no wonder there pissed) then the terrorists will slow down there efforts or even stop. but now, republicans will say thats bullshit, all in the name of wanting more blood and oil and dead people

Its plain and simple, terrorism is only a threat, because the US choses to make it a threat, if the US pulls its head out of its ass (and some with Bush) it will be fine

ever wonder why during the cold war we never had terrorism, except in the form of our own people, because the US was to preoccupied with russia, it wasnt off dicking around and fucking over people it shouldnt have (like it is now)

when will people realize that, oooo.......once bush stops fucking up and resigns
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67thRaptorBull

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Face It Bush Failed
« Reply #53 on: July 11, 2004, 01:28:00 PM »

QUOTE (nfs911 @ Jul 11 2004, 04:05 PM)
you are saying that we shouldnt worry about terriosim??? That sounds like a good plan man!

i beleive its terrorism, and i never said to stop worrying about it, i said if we leave the terrorists HOMELAND's alone, theyll leave us alone

but i guess the way republicans think, we should go attack china and enforce our views on there communist way, and then when they attack back, well bitch about it (9/11) for a few years and cuase more meaningless death

dont get me wrong, afghanistan was the right choice, but iraq was a fucked up choice, and the war on terror is going no where fast and soon it will cuase another major fuck up the ass for the US
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nfs911

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« Reply #54 on: July 11, 2004, 01:32:00 PM »

wheres my picture man?
lol

and your right, all I want is dead people!!!!
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67thRaptorBull

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Face It Bush Failed
« Reply #55 on: July 11, 2004, 03:16:00 PM »

QUOTE (nfs911 @ Jul 11 2004, 04:32 PM)
wheres my picture man?
lol

and your right, all I want is dead people!!!!

well how else can you explain iraq without coming up with bullshit excuses (ie, WMD's, humanitarian efforts, good of the world, etc)?
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thomes08

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Face It Bush Failed
« Reply #56 on: July 11, 2004, 08:41:00 PM »

a joke at the end of Anchorman pretty much sums up why bush is an idiot.

nfs.... stop posting nonsense, your best argument so far is "if john kerry were pres we'd all get blown up"  Serisouly you're like 13 right?  And your parents talk bad about dems at the dinner table.  Grow up and think a bit

thomes08
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melon

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Face It Bush Failed
« Reply #57 on: July 12, 2004, 02:18:00 AM »

QUOTE
This is a man who kills his own people using chemicals produced by his country


I have provided concrete proof in other threads that it was the US and UK that provided Saddam with chemical weapons.

You say Saddam was a WMD but you ignore your country installed him into power in the first place. He didnt have any dangerous weapons if he did he would have used them against our troops in battle. Iraq was quite a liberal country compared to others in the middle east, jews and christians could live in Iraq they would have been killed in many other middle eatern countries.

QUOTE
What could he do to use? Well, take a look at Al Qaeda.

Then why not target Al Qauida? The Saudi's have massive links with the group but this is ignored by Bush as they are friends. If the Saudi royal family pulled out its trillion dollars it has invested into America it would bancrupt your country. Maybe this is why Bush does nothing they have your country in its pockets!

QUOTE
The Iraqis, the crazed Saddam loyalists, for which there were many, were not nice people by any stretch of the imagination.

I take huge offence to this statement. In fact it disgusts me.
I know several Iraqi's and they are all nice friendly people who just want a peacefull country to go back to.

QUOTE
We need to rid the world of these religious totalitarianistic

Again you show ignorance. Iraq was not a strict Islamic country.
Why do you think America has the right to "rid the world" of Islam? America is hated all over the world are you going to turn your intention to N Korea next or what about Cuba or even France? surely them froggies need to be brought into line. As a Brit I speak for the majority who would love to see us sever links with your "great" country.
Your suggestion that America should spread democracy accross the middle east is crazy. How about you change you ideals instead of forcing them onto everybody else. Your country has an excellent record of regime change, hows Afghanistan going? I have lost count of the dictators you have installed over the years. And now you have hand picked the new Iraqi government to be more America friendly! Most Iraqi people see America as an invading army and most would prefer to put Saddam back in power than the way thier country is now. And when there country is rebuilt they will be trillions in debt at extortionate levels of interest and the economy will be contolled by the IMF. Take a look at any country the IMF has dealt with and you will see they fuck countries over completely, as examples look at Jamaica and Turkey.

I dont belive you called what Saddam has done in Iraq as a Holocaust! You have a strange view on the importance of America in the world. If you didnt exist South America would not have such a volatile past. Your country has overthrown many democracies to install a dictator because they are easier to do business with.

If America did not exist Europe would be more united, Turkey is not allowed into the EU because of its (enforced) dependance on America. Korea would be united as its people want. The Middle East would not hate the west. Africa would not be kept in povery forced upon them by debt. S America would have democracies and millions of people would not have died. Jamaica would not be fucked and sweatshops would not exist.

I view America as a plague on the planet, not as a glue that holds it together.

These are my opinions and I have respected yours apart from the comment about Iraqi people which I request you explain.

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thomes08

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Face It Bush Failed
« Reply #58 on: July 12, 2004, 06:05:00 AM »

^^^ i agree with about 90% of what you said, and i am an American.  A discusted american.  Why don't i leave you ask?  Cause i grew up here, my friends and family are here, i'm going to school here, the best place for me to find a job in my major is here, and i'd like to be a part in us changing.

thomes08
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melon

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« Reply #59 on: July 12, 2004, 06:46:00 AM »

thanks, I should point out when I say America I mean the government and the right wing "extremist" individuals who agree with everything Bush says or does. I know not everyone likes Bush and I like the majority of its people.
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