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[Mr. Chips]

QUOTE

In most religions there is the belief that God allows free will. If that were correct, then I would be able to think for myself. But if you ponder that for awhile, who then puts the thoughts in my head? If god doesn't put them there, then they must come out of SOMEWHERE. But why? If a thought can pop into my head out of nowhere, then an atom can be created from nothing by no one.

I think I understand what you are trying to say.

But in fact, aren't all our decisions made for specific reasons?  For example you see a sign at a Zoo saying "Don't Feed the Bears".  Using thoughts and ideas which you already have inside your brain from past experiences you would resolve (hopefully!) not to feed the bears because of dangers you have already had hardwired into your brain during your growth... which you absorbed growing up to learn what is good for you and what is not.
Say too, that you have the thought of beating the living crap out of someone who did you wrong.  It is a sense a justice which you also gained during the growth process of what is wrong towards you should not go unanswered, just as you might have been upset when a sibling was favoured, you kicked and screamed till you got what you want.
Basically your brain is a extremely well designed computer which can process any thought.  After all, a thought can be inspired by your expereinces.  It's hard argue on things which aren't material or physical of course.

[Mozart.mp3]

That makes the whole idea of a god even more ridiculous. A perfect being, making imperfect people, in an imperfect world.

It is also amazing at the things people can come up with to compete with their ignorance. Don't take this as an insult at all, but sometimes it's just the amazing things that end up working, sometimes it's not. Giving life can be amazing, but the ways it can be taken away are just the opposite.

I am what I am because we are, there needs no reason for it.

[Mozart.mp3]

QUOTE

But in fact, aren't all our decisions made for specific reasons? For example you see a sign at a Zoo saying "Don't Feed the Bears". Using thoughts and ideas which you already have inside your brain from past experiences you would resolve (hopefully!) not to feed the bears because of dangers you have already had hardwired into your brain during your growth... which you absorbed growing up to learn what is good for you and what is not.

Now if you think about that. That would mean someone's original thought, would have to be the result of some experience. Which would mean following your theory, that one original past experience spawned that of all humanities. Now that statement right there would defeat the rule of free-will considering that if god was that original past experience, he would then have affected all of humanity with that thought and therefore, there would technically be no free-will.

Things can still happen because they do. What do you call the space between atoms, what created that then? Wasn't that just always there? The idea that god was not created by anything, makes my statement just as true, something CAN just be for no reason at all.

[Mr. Chips]

You say it's ridiculous.  I say it's hard to comprehend.  Perhas that is because we are imperfect?  We could not fully understand his ways, as the scripture says.

[OrkanMan]

QUOTE

In most religions there is the belief that God allows free will. If that were correct, then I would be able to think for myself. But if you ponder that for awhile, who then puts the thoughts in my head? If god doesn't put them there, then they must come out of SOMEWHERE. But why? If a thought can pop into my head out of nowhere, then an atom can be created from nothing by no one.

A thought is not physical.  It's not something you can feel, touch, hear, taste or smell.  But since we each can think for ourselves, we know that thoughts do exist.

If I was an expert on brain activity, I might be able to explain how thoughts work.  There is probably a scientific explanation for why thoughts pop into people's heads.

But, there is no scientific explanation for why an atom magically appears.

[Mozart.mp3]

Maybe god could just be the belief that things happen because they happen and nothing can explain it. Everyone's god is just a compilation of all that they truely want. It's all the happiness and beauty and everything else that can be. I just interpret that in a different way then you do.

There is also no scientific way to explain why there has to be a god. There is no scientific way to explain that if there is a god, what god looks like, how god thinks, what god knows, who god is.

Science isn't perfect either because it is man made as well. We only know what we want to know. Things could just as possibly appear out of nowhere, as to someone has to believe that someone else put them there.

[Mozart.mp3]

It's "ridiculous" to me, because I don't NEED to think that. I don't NEED to believe there is a god or there isn't. I think it's easier to understand that there isn't a need to be a god at all.

Folklore was the same as religion is, it's just a way to comprehend something until we know the truth. When we were little, we believed everything in folklore's as did the ancient civilizations. We just know now that it is ridiculous because it's been proven false. Until religion is proven false, people will continue to believe it.

[Mozart.mp3]

Well now, if you are saying that there was an exact prophecy of the messiah, then why is there still contraversy over it? I seems to me that the original religion from which Christianity was spawned, believes that the date for the messiah was WRONG. So yes, I believe it IS folklore.

When you see someone, a great person, the best you ever met, killed for no reason at all, would that still be Christianity at it's best? Are you even open to ANY other religions at all. There have been many civilizations that have been JUST FINE believing in either no god, or a billion different gods, that I am sure have been through the same exact thing as you have.

Have YOU ever tried believing in something else than Christianity and god, and see if anything in the world changes? If sky's come crashing down, and humans ceasing to exist? Why don't you try that as well.

[Mr. Chips]

jesusphreak, welcome to xbox-scene.
We welcome all no matter what Creed, color or race...
I think you all should too.
Respect his beliefs, and he'll respect yours.

Mr. Chips

[Mozart.mp3]

Who said I wasn't respecting his beliefs? This is a perfectly clean conversation of religion.

[Mr. Chips]

Does the topic say "Come here to discuss the Validity of Christianity"

NO

SO

WELCOME HIM< NO ONE ELSE HAS

[Mozart.mp3]

Forums are for conversations to stray from topic, it happens, deal with it.

[Mozart.mp3]

"To be wise is to admit you know nothing."

[Colonel32]

QUOTE

In the 40 Objections part of the site, number 36 concerns the idea that the new testament was written so it would look as though Jesus fulfilled prophecy. The author makes the argument that the apostles suffered for their beliefs, and that it would be illogical for them to lie.

Your asking all the right questions in my opinion Caidena  

There is a large debate in the Christian faith whether or not prophecies were fulfilled - The answer depends what church you go to.  The arguments themselves are hard to understand to say the least, but there is three main beliefs...Dispensationalism and Old vs New Covenant theology.  It goes from there into the whole "greater Israel" argument. Everything is just interpretation so even within a faith there is debate as to who is correct. It's a question that can't really be answered correctly in my opinion

[jesusphreak]

QUOTE

If you look hard enough...The thing you'll find is a lot of the Christianity you know, came from 500 years before Jesus. Mithraism cults pre-dated Christianity and Christianity certainly adopted the Zorastrianism and Gnosticism beliefs of good an evil. Your holy trinity, 12 apostles and dates of importance were all a part of Mithraism cults. It's more than Gen 3 Jesus was a Jewish revolutionary before he was annointed Christos. He was not put to death for your sins, it was Roman law for Revolutionists. The "substitutionary theory of the atonement" was the idea of Paul.

Mithraism does not predate Christianity. You are absolutely wrong on that. And Gnosticism in itself is a corruption of Christianity, therefore it must have come from after the start of Christianity. Zorastianism, yes it does predate Christianity by a lot, does that mean Christianity copied it? No. Is it not possible that that religion was somewhat inspired and had a closer view of God than other religions? Yes, it is. And just maybe the reason Zorastianism is not a global religion today is because it's followers realized that CHristianity was the real thing. Just a thought.

QUOTE

Your asking all the right questions in my opinion Caidena  There is a large debate in the Christian faith whether or not prophecies were fulfilled - The answer depends what church you go to. The arguments themselves are hard to understand to say the least, but there is three main beliefs...Dispensationalism and Old vs New Covenant theology. It goes from there into the whole "greater Israel" argument. Everything is just interpretation so even within a faith there is debate as to who is correct. It's a question that can't really be answered correctly in my opinion

I disagree strongly on that. Yes, CHristians disagree on a fulfillment of prophecies, but what they are disagreeing on is future prophecy (ie end times prophecy). You will not find a CHristian on the face of the earth that does not agree on the MEssianic prophecies.....

There is a lot of disagreement in the CHristian faith, but what holds us together in our solid belief that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, met all of the requirements of the Messiah, and then died on the cross, and rose again.

I think the CHristian arguement that it is illogical for the apostles to know of the validity of a lie and to go and die for it is very solid. Yes, there are martyrs of other faiths today, but that's just it, they are dying for their faith.

The apostles would have known whether or not the story that they were telling was true, and for them to preach it, get beat for it, live like beggars for it, and to die for it is something astounding.

What 12 men do you know that will die for an absolute lie (that they know to be a lie)?