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[The unProfessional]

At least in western society, the modern form of the "church" is a highly financial institution.  You'll find more evidence if God while walking down the street or sitting in your living room.

[melon]

Jesusfreak you say Islam will not get you into heaven. Will you now answer my question!
Why do you think they wont get into heaven when they too worship jesus and praise the same god, abliet with a different name?

[nemt]

QUOTE (melon @ Jul 16 2004, 08:14 AM)

Why do you think they wont get into heaven when they too worship jesus and praise the same god, abliet with a different name?

What better way to worship Jesus than killing thousands of his followers?

[melon]

I know, what were Bush and Blair thinking!

[nemt]

QUOTE (melon @ Jul 16 2004, 05:12 PM)

I know, what were Bush and Blair thinking!

Your failure to distinguish between accidental civilian casualties, and islamic oppression, terrorism, and mass murder of christians and jews since islam began is troubling.  You truly are nothing but a brainwashed tool of the liberal, anti-christian left.

[melon]

QUOTE

accidental civilian casualties

 15,000 people dead is not accidental.

but its okay i am obviously the one who is brainwashed.
I am the one who belives in God and whatever my president/primeminister says.
Im off to join the army and go and kill people in the name of the Lord, Halleluea!!!

Nemt dont bother replying, if you do I will ignore it. I was asking Jesusfreak the question, not you.

[nemt]

QUOTE (melon @ Jul 17 2004, 07:48 AM)

You get me wrong. I think people who are involved in any religion are weak. We are alone, there is no higher purpose, our lives dont mean shit, and when we die that is it, no magical far away place for our souls. Historically God was a way for the masses to be controlled and to make people belive that no matter how shite their life is, it doesnt matter bacause you will be rewarded with eternal happiness. You have to be feeble or stupid to buy into that!

How compassionate, progressive, and classy of you! Insult close to six billion people, calling them feeble and stupid.  

Anyway, yes, religion has been the cause of war, but every religious war is due to Islam, or pagan beliefs, Christianity has never been the catalyst for religious strife.  

So what if you feel there's no God?  Does it bother you so much to see people getting joy and meaning from something you think isn't there?  I guess you plan to throw out your kids' teeth, and teach them to scoff at neighbors with christmas trees.  This is, of course, assuming you could get laid, which by now we both know, you can't, probably not even if you spend a lot of cash.

QUOTE (melon @ Jul 17 2004, 07:48 AM)

What about the crusades? I know they were before your country existed, but were they not about the killing or conversion of any pagan/muslims??

The crusades were justified.  Muslim invaders had occupied the judeo-christian holy land, and were forcing conversion (or death) upon the locals.  The crusades were never about conversion, you're thinking of the spread of Islam, when non muslims were forced to choose between conversion, death, and faith taxes.  Learn some history before you try to condemn the world's largest religion, jackass.

QUOTE (melon @ Jul 17 2004, 07:48 AM)

15,000 people dead is not accidental.

I guess you're right, US forces sought out civilians and murdered them, you know, to win over the people.  You're a moron to contest the accidental nature of civilian casualties, in nearly all wars, on all sides.

QUOTE (melon @ Jul 17 2004, 07:48 AM)

but its okay i am obviously the one who is brainwashed. I am the one who belives in God and whatever my president/primeminister says. Im off to join the army and go and kill people in the name of the Lord, Halleluea!!!

You are brainwashed, by your media, but don't feel bad - so are most of your favorite celebrities in hollywood.  Personally, I don't believe in God or the afterlife, but I don't attack those who do, calling them feeble and weak.  Additionally, the US military is completely secular, and no war the US has been involved in has ever been "in the name of the Lord." ...but feel free to keep telling yourself that if it helps you justify disliking the greatest country in the world.

QUOTE (melon @ Jul 17 2004, 07:48 AM)

Nemt dont bother replying, if you do I will ignore it. I was asking Jesusfreak the question, not you.

I wouldn't expect a legitimate reply from you anyway, just lies, half truths, and baseless bush/christian bashing.  You're a complete idiot, and you have no place discussing anything on a political forum.

[nemt]

QUOTE (CaTcHa @ Jul 17 2004, 03:26 PM)

What is a neighbords (sic) ? as we dont have those in the UK . What is Chritianity (sic) is it something to do with Chriton from Red Dwarf ? It will help me understand  Please oh please Oh great one practice what you preach as far as spellchecking goes or was it just that you were unable to correct it brefore (sic) I quoted it?? ROFL so fast and so "people in glass houses etc"  hard ,

You misunderstand the difference between a typo, and not knowing how to spell a word. Misuse of "their/there/they're" isn't a typo, it's a lack of knowledge.  "Chritianity" is a failed keystroke, though, a rare typographical mistake, which is acceptable in a lenghty piece of unchecked text.  If you can't figure that out, maybe you should watch tv instead.

[melon]

QUOTE

Chritianity has never been the catalyst for religious strife

The Ottomon empire on thier4 crusades didnt just kill everybody, they converted people  by offering financial incentives. We just plain killed everyone. Or what about Africa? It was become Christians or starve! Thats just the same as killing them.

QUOTE

This is, of course, assuming you could get laid, which by now we both know, you can't, probably not even if you spend a lot of cash.

QUOTE

I guess you're right, US forces sought out civilians and murdered them, you know, to win over the people. You're a moron to contest the accidental nature of civilian casualties, in nearly all wars, on all sides.

Damm those Cluster bombs! I wont even mention a certain prizon, or DU shells or carpet bombing. But hey the people of Iraq hate both the US and the UK forces so we did a good job. What was it 2% see us as a liberating force.

QUOTE

the US military is completely secular, and no war the US has been involved in has ever been "in the name of the Lord."

Didnt Bush stand in a church and make arguments about the war? there are plenty of examples of this I cant be bothered as they have been brought up in other threads.

Im bored of you as are many other people in this forum. Check my spelin i dont car if i got sum rong

[nemt]

QUOTE (melon @ Jul 17 2004, 07:48 AM)

Nemt dont bother replying, if you do I will ignore it. I was asking Jesusfreak the question, not you.

You're a hypocrite, a moron, and a biased, warped tool of the liberal media.  You have never been correct, and anything you say can safely be assumed as useless.  Suicide is your best option.

[bx2a5z]

QUOTE (nemt @ Jul 17 2004, 05:19 PM)

How compassionate, progressive, and classy of you!

Then...

QUOTE

You're a hypocrite, a moron, and a biased, warped tool of the liberal media. You have never been correct, and anything you say can safely be assumed as useless. Suicide is your best option.

Pot, I'd like to introduce you to kettle.    

It's also cute how you buy in to that "liberal media" fantasy.  Tell me, what do you see in the media that makes you think there's a liberal slant?  I turn on the radio, I hear rabid, ultra-right wing talk show hosts browbeating anyone who isn't a Republican, and constantly pulling out the old "he hates America" chestnut, which has proven to be very effective at fooling idiots. Then I turn on the TV, and I see FoxNews.  And, of course, practically every media outlet in the country is owned by conservatives.  

The way you talk, you'd think every news anchor in the country was a barefoot hippie.  

[Foe-hammer]

QUOTE

The book of Mormon does have archaelogical evidence in the New World, and in the Old World. There are explicit burial rituals mounds described in the book of Mormon found in North America. Architectural structures and materials described in the book of Mormon have been found in ancient building in Central America. Part of the Book of Mormon does occur in the Old World, and there references to real places like Jerusalem; to caves outside the city wall (Joseph Smith did not even know there were walls around Jerusalem) - and such caves have been discovered in abundance, but were not known to him; to a place of mourning and burial called Nahom, described as being far to the "south-southeast" of Jerusalem which corresponds with an ancient place of a similar name (Nehem) right where the Book of Mormon says it should be; there is a newly discovered place directly east of Nahom on the coast of present-day Oman (a place called Wadi Sayq) that fits the Book of Mormon description of "Bountiful" perfectly - and this was unknown and even ludicrous until recent years. There is also confirmation of the existence of the Valley of Lemuel and the River of Laman, locations found in the book of mormon. The River of Laman, said by to be "continuously flowing" into the Red Sea, was long said to be ridiculous by anti-Mormon critics, who alleged that there were no continuously flowing rivers feeding the Red Sea. But there is definitely a substantial and continuously flowing stream in an impressive valley by the Red Sea in the place required by the Book of Mormon text. These are but a few examples. Also, much more has been studied and known about the holy lands then Central and South America, so generally more has been found. Most of the peoples and cultures on the American continents did not leave written records. The only place they did is the area where the Book of Mormon says there were ancient record-keeping people who prized literacy - near the Isthmus of Tehuantepec. Wait several hundred years until we know a lot more about the area, and then request the piles of evidence that you want.

Good hell man, what I have written above is nothing remotely vague; I have named specific locations and references.  90% of the stuff you have written has no factual basis.  Now that is what I call vague.

QUOTE

If the Mormon church isn't a financial institution, in what way is it serving poor inner city neigborhoods? Where are the wards, the temples, the missionaries? Why are they all in middle-white class neighborhoods?

There you go again assuming, and spreading lies again.  The LDS church sends hundreds of millions of dollars in the form of food and medication relief to places here in the US and around the world to those who are in need.  The LDS has a lay ministry (no one is paid) for their services.  How about your church's ministry, are they paid?  The LDS missionaries serve for two years and pay their own way; the church doesn't pay for their mission (food, housing, etc.).  Who pays for your short month missions?  While this should not matter at all, I’ve seen many LDS missionaries living in the poor part of the city, in government housing.  What matters is they preach to everyone.  I see them teaching people in the projects and other extremely less fortunate parts of the city.  

Funny thing is, the LDS church is one of the few Christian church's that do not spend so much time, effort, and money bashing and tearing down other churches/religions.  They don't because they are very secure/sure in their beliefs.  Are you, because it sure doesn't sound like you are?  If you were you would not feel the need to bash other religions, or let everyone know of your good works.  

So before you go running your mouth off again, think.  I have seen and talked with many Mormons who have much more a Christ like attitude then you have shown here.  Remember, you will convert more people to Christ by example, and not by telling them how foolish and wrong their beliefs are.  But you sound very young, and hopefully as you get older age will distil her wisdom on you.

[sh4d0w_sh4d3]

Ok, i do belive in jesus and its good to see some people in this world who actually do nice things. this world lately has seemed to be .....almost.. corrupted by money and power and its just good to see that some people still stand strong for what they belive in so jesusphreak i say power to ya. at the same time i say Nemt........... what the heck are you even doing in here. you come into the forums and insult this person for thier spiritual beliefs. now i know that everyone is entitled to thier oppinion but i dont think you should come into this forum jsut to make jokes about people's religion.  If you came here just looking for a fight to start, i pitty you very very much. Thats all you seem to do in these forums is to starts crap. all you do is insult people and start fights. i just joined these forums two days ago and im already sick of you. please im asking you nicely, dont bother people in here just so that you can have a laugh. I was very offended when i saw that you were insulting my country. I Think canada is the best place in the world. For those you think canada sucks and we're all a bunch of drunks who play hockey all day, you have obviously not been here. Nemt. Do NOT talk about my country that way, and do NOT talk about my beliefs that way.

[gronne]

I in no way hate religious people (to me there's no difference if you're a muslim or a christian etc.). It's probably hard not to become religious if you're taught from day one that God is the all mighty. But I most certainly HATE all religions. The only religious people I really dislike are the one's that are trying to throw their religion of shit on me.

People being naive can't help they have a need to believe in more than theirselves, and I don't blame them for this. I see a great purpose of believing in a God if you live in Africa, it can probably save them (the brain is incredible). I see less, if no reason to believe in a God if you're living in the rich western world, but obviously people do.

Many religious people probably feel more secure in theirselves than us atheists, which is a good thing. But I rather be insecure than dedicating my whole life to a fake.

I suppose the reason we believe in Gods is of fear. Fear of being alone in the universe. Fear of the death. Fear of ourselves. With a God on your side you won't have to fear much, not much that really matters at least. With a God on our side we have most answers we need "What happens when we die?", Heaven of course. That's a pleasant view in my eyes. It's only too bad there exists no Gods so we won't have to fear.

If you dare to believe in yourself instead, you've come a long way. And then you CAN learn to master your fear.

Evolution is a theory, but EVERYTHING points that it's correct, and eventhough a lot of the puzzle is missing, I choose to believe in it. As the years go by we know more and more about the evolution.

I, myself hate the evolution. The evolution is very cruel, it's taught us that murder is the only way to survive, and that your own people are the mightiest and most important. But since the evolution has brought the people to the state of today we've become civilized, and use different systems where the tribes are now in the millions instead of 10 to 20 people, and now we believe that people don't live in tribes anymore, but, we are still only tribes, yet bigger. For example the tribe called USA hate the tribe called Mid-east and vice-versa, or the tribe called christianity hate Islam and vice versa. And no matter how civilized we think we are we'll probably always have tribes. If the world ever gets united as one it's most likely that it is an other planet attacking us, but then we are a tribe against them.

And eventhough I think the evolution is so cruel, I choose to believe in it.
To me it's only logical to believe in something that's provable, than to something that is not. The world is not nice, so I think we should deal with it. And religons will only destroy it.

[Mr. Chips]

I personally, would not ridicule you, for your beleifs...but evolution does not make sense unless your judgement is really clouded.

your history:

1) 4.6 billion years ago, a blip in space starts spinning, and explodes
2) explosion creates the solar systems and galaxy
...I could go, there is much more

these first 2 steps makes even more questions than answers.
Let's look at some the questions:

what was the blip?  why did it spin?  where was the physical law to create motion?  why did the law exist?  Who made this law?  what created the motion?  Why was ANYTHING there in the first place?  Why did it explode?  Why is the universe not equally distrubuted then?  Why was space there?  How could all the mass of the universe fit into this blip?  How do we know how big it was?  How do we know it was 4.6 bya?