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[The unProfessional]

I haven't commented in this thread yet, but there's something we, of all creeds, need to understand.  The Koran, although quite aggressive, as no different from the Bible, especially the Old Testament.  Books of faith are to be interpreted... not taken for fact or followed unquestionably.  No doubt there are handfulls of people from all faiths who are incapable of critical thinking, and spend their days following the other hordes of robots.  Fundamentalists, these robots I'm speaking of, also exist in all faiths.  They even exist in anti-faiths.  For instance, the removal of the ten commandments from a courthouse.  Why waste hundreds of man hours and court cases on this... simply because it's a symbol of the religion this nation was founded on?  Or how about the destruction and murder by our (America's) breed of religious fanatics simply because they feel gay relationship taint marriage or that abortion is murder.
(Notice I'm leaving out my own opinions on these issues so as not to start a flame war)

Here in America, anything belonging to the majority is to be condemned.  Anything allowing one to express culture or opinion is immediately muted so as not to "offend".

Islam isn't a faith of murder and destruction.  However, a westerner reading the Koran will surely come to that conclusion.  

Surely, entire faiths or ethnicities shouldn't be judged on their fundamentalists.  Lord knows Americans are, too.  We all make the mistake of judging... after all, it's the assholes to speak the loudest.

[melon]

[The unProfessional]

[gronne]

QUOTE

I don't care if they think of themselves as freedom fighters, if they can behead people without remorse and blow themselves up in cars without a second thought, then they are far sicker than I'll ever hope to be.

Instead you should probably ask yourself why they don't feel remorse. You should ask yourself why they dislike USA (in specific). I promise you, the answers are similar to why you hate them, but even more so. Read up.


They probably cary as little knowledge about you(america), as you do about them.
They get to learn all the bad things USA do, not the bad things they do, and vice versa.

9/11 didn't happen without a reason. I don't support them, I understand them.

It's all about gaining real knowledge, and above all, ACCEPTING IT.

[gronne]

double post

[67thRaptorBull]

QUOTE (gronne @ Jun 23 2004, 04:09 PM)

Instead you should probably ask yourself why they don't feel remorse. You should ask yourself why they dislike USA (in specific). I promise you, the answers are similar to why you hate them, but even more so. Read up. They probably cary as little knowledge about you(america), as you do about them. They get to learn all the bad things USA do, not the bad things they do, and vice versa. 9/11 didn't happen without a reason. I don't support them, I understand them. It's all about gaining real knowledge, and above all, ACCEPTING IT.

thank god gronne, well put.

i also like how someone other then me (that i know of) agrees 9/11 wasnt a spur of the moment thing, and people should realize, if we stop dicking around, the terrorists (or muslims that dont want us in thier countries so they can have better lifes, if you want a better term) will stop attacking us

[67thRaptorBull]

QUOTE (mirx999 @ Jun 24 2004, 10:14 PM)

I have to disagree with you on that point.  I have read a good bit of the Koran (english translation) and, from what I've read, our actions aren't the reasons we're attacked, but rather our beliefs.  Fundamentalists attacked us because we're Zionists and infidels to them.  After 9/11, there were two things we could feasibly do: Make peace with the terrorists, which is against our policy and that of the UN and lets the terrorists off the hook scotch-free, and have a short period of peace until we fuck something else up and get attacked again, Or... Go after them, take out as much of the terrorist threat as possible, and ensure a hopefully longer-lasting peace.  The drawbacks here, though, are that it would take longer and cost more money, and that the threat of terrorism would re-emerge at some point. Point is, there really is no way of ridding the world of terror, short of killing everyone in the world.

well, thats nice and all, but i dont see why the US hasnt been directly attacked as massive as 9/11 (the 1993 attack was the only other one) in the last how many years???
and then all of sudden they attack, out of no where? bullshit

terrorists are people, and i bet you, if bush was kicked out of the white house, and the US stopped fucking around where it shouldnt be (ie, the rest of the world) peace would soon come (at least the peace we knew before 9/11)

you cant tell me terrorism was always a threat to the US...beacause we never had higher interests in other countries until after the cold war (or right during it, when we realized we were the "strongest country in the world", isnt that a coincidence    )

[melon]

QUOTE

i bet you, if bush was kicked out of the white house, and the US stopped fucking around where it shouldnt be (ie, the rest of the world) peace would soon come (at least the peace we knew before 9/11)

Im sorry Raptor but i will have to disagree with you on this one. Its not just Bush America has always been this way. Bush is just more in your face about it.

QUOTE

Make peace with the terrorists, which is against our policy and that of the UN and lets the terrorists off the hook scotch-free

Look at my country, if we had not started negotiating with the IRA (thanks for funding them by the way!), then we would not have reached the situation we are at now were we are no longer under the threat of bombings.

Terrorists always have an agenda be it trying to liberate Palastine, trying to re-unite a split Ireland, or trying to stop America's globalisation of the Middle East. They always feel they have a just cause and more often than not they do. They use the methods they choose because politically they dont get a look in. Violence forces thier agenda onto the table.

It has happened recently in England. We have a group campaigning for greater parental rights for fathers who have split from thier partners. Many cant see thier own children. They have staged peacefull protests with barely a mention in the press. One of them took it a stage further and threw a flour filled condom at Tony Blair and suddenly it makes front page news and everybody is talking about the issue. Okay they never killed anybody but it is just to illustrate that taking things a step further than is socially accepted raises the profile of your grievance.

It is also obvious that 9/11 wasnt a spur of the moment thing, it was very well planned and co-ordinated.

[67thRaptorBull]

QUOTE (melon @ Jun 25 2004, 03:56 AM)

Im sorry Raptor but i will have to disagree with you on this one. Its not just Bush America has always been this way. Bush is just more in your face about it.

yea, thats basically what i meant, Bush puts a bigger spin on it, and cuases it to be worse...im just saying, in the 50's, 60's 70's 80's and first 2 years of the 90's, there was no terrorist acts on the US, but it seems once the cold war was over, they started happening, as we started thinking we could rule the world (no USSR = america is god??)