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[BloodyMary]

It's become pretty evident that most (if not all) Europeans on the xbox-scene forums think that the U.S. should just mind it's own business and never get involved in any other countries deals.  Just thought I'd point out what we'd have if the U.S. had always followed that policy..



Ok, now all you American hating Europeans come on out and call me an arogant prick... it really doesn't matter, the truth is if we always just stayed home... and minded our own business... well... make of it what you will...

I am proud to be an American... no I don't always agree with the political and military measures that U.S. government takes, but at the same time, I know there were plenty of U.S. citizens that were totally against the U.S. getting involved in WWII... and they were wrong...
Ok so all you Europeans who hate Americans... GO FUCK OFF.. you self righteous FUCKS

[Ween311]

[IndieSnob]

Yes, I completely agree. You European nations and citizens of those nations should blindly follow and agree with everything the United States tells you too. I mean shame on you people for not being blinded sheep and actually looking at the issue at hand with reasonable thought and telling us were wrong.

//This post was utter b.s. but instead sarcasmn because I can't tell you just how moronic the statements the original poster made.

[Intensecure]

QUOTE

//This post was utter b.s. but instead sarcasmn because I can't tell you just how moronic the statements the original poster made.

   

We could also draw up a map of where the democratic states in Central and South America would be if it were not for the US funded death squads in Nicaragua, El Salvador and Guatemala.
The 2 million dead in Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos?
East Timor and the US support for Indonesia?
Afghanistan?
The overthrow of legitimate governments around the world - I know, ASSUMPTION, read a few books and you will find facts.
You evidently suffer from cognitive dissonance, or are too emotionally involved to construct rational arguments.
You also fail to understand the consequences of American failures in policy during the WW2 that led to the partition of Germany and the onset of the cold war, which was propagated by the US, not by the USSR.
I can sit here and dig out references to resources, but I am not writing a thesis on this for your benefit.
To even answer back to someone whose logical argument descends to

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Ok so all you Europeans who hate Americans... GO FUCK OFF.. you self righteous FUCKS

is perhaps a waste of time, but there may be other, more rational people who read this thread and have valid opinions.
I think the American people are, by and large, some of the finest anywhere. My family has lived in the US for the last 20 years, although I live elsewhere and am British/European.
But 50% of every tax dollar in the US is spent on defence related industry. Only 11% of Americans have passports (true, DYOR) so one cannot say that they have been exposed to a greater level of other cultures than that which they watch on cable TV (I repeat, not ALL, just some). Literacy in the US is at a lower level than almost any other industrialised nation.
I could continue, but I would be wasting my time debating with your closed mind.
Let those more receptive consider the issues.

[koldfuzion]

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But 50% of every tax dollar in the US is spent on defence related industry.

Defense research provided you with the internet. via research done at MIT.  So to summarize in short,  pay your taxes, use some to research better tech/weapons so we kick ass in our wars and still provide money to educate those not fighting the war? sounds cool to me.

Billions and billions of dollars are granted to schools for various projects, yes, maybe defense related (see robot race), but the resulting tech is much like the billions we spend on NASA too, both provide better stuff for the civilian world.  Navigate your boat, car or use one of those personal locators via GPS lately?

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Literacy in the US is at a lower level than almost any other industrialised nation

Seeing how our motto is to accept people from all over the world without having to be rich, educated, or politically motivated...    i would expect us to have a high illiteracy rate.  If i went to Germany, i would be an illiterate schmuck too.

QUOTE

Only 11% of Americans have passports (true, DYOR) so one cannot say that they have been exposed to a greater level of other cultures than that which they watch on cable TV (I repeat, not ALL, just some).

true.  But I HAVE been to many countries and if you gave me the choice to stay in the US, or the choice to live in smart-ass literate england, chicken shit france, bullied spain,  punked germany or the currently liberated Iraq.  I would take the US any day and every time.  I wouldnt trade living here for anything.   Yet at the same time, I would be willing to help you take out  a jerk that keeps you from having the same freedom, or do it for you if dont have any combat boots.

[lordvader129]

(getting back to original post) hitlers regime in germany was a legitimate government, i supopose we should have left him alone too?

the french monarchy was legit too, i guess they should have left well enough alone (whats a little opression anyway?)

well ATM im too tired come up with valic intelligent comments, so rather than rant and rave some ignorant crap ill just post this, lol

[gronne]

Americans are self righteous because of facts like you believe you saved Europe from Hitler. Learn some history and you'd understand that the war was already won when USA helped.  The battle at El-Alamein 1942 and Stalingrad 1943 were the turning points. USA started helping with small troops in november 1942 in northern Africa and later on increased to have troops for D-day 6 June 1944. There's not a chance the allied countries would fail even without USA. You helped along a lot and that we're thankful of. When you come to believe you liberated us from Hitler it makes me pissed off, and wonder what you're taught in your school. Unlearn.

Why should we not hate USA? You involved yourselves in Vietnam murdering millions of civilians. And you started war with Iraq unauthorized from UN. Which is an obvious sign that you don't give a f**k about other nations. We have very valid reasons to do so. I use to say that I don't hate americans, I hate your government. But since so incredibly many of you americans agree with your government it leaves out the option to like you.

[Intensecure]

Koldfuzion: - I scarcely know where to start, but I know where to finish 'cause it gets tiring hitting yr head against brick walls of ignorance.

The Internet did NOT come about merely as a result of defence spending - despite a common belief that it did so. Again, I am sorry, but I do not have the reference work to hand for that - I did a paper on that subject not long ago, and a Harvard publications book was involved that discussed it in detail. If I find it, I will refer.
The UK spends 5-6% tax on defence, Germany/France 4-5%, with a similiar pattern across Europe. Are they "under-defended" as part of NATO - No! They just don't support a militaristic-economic structure that requires multi-billion dollar investment to prop up it's fucked economy (trillion dollar deficit, anyone?).
The fallacy that scientific research would not take place, and therefore not provide useful products is often used by neo-conservative market economists, but almost all "invention" and scientific research would be carried out anyway - Most scientists and researchers are goal orientated and not money/prestige orientated. School funding in the US has declined relatively, and is more and more propped up by Private companies (yr Chemistry class - sponsored by Unichem...) and you have a declining standard of literacy. DYOR on that.
To say that that is due to immigration is ignorant, racially biased, and untrue. You have strict immigration quotas, not just anyone gets in without qualifications/job prospects etc - this is not the 1930s when the boats were steaming into New York!! It may be yr "motto", but has not applied in such an easy fashion for decades - and even more so now post 9/11. It is in the heartlands of America, and the inner city poorer areas where literacy is declining.
So you are blaming immigrants for yr own countries declining literacy standards rather than yr govt and it's education policy??  

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smart-ass literate england

Such a shame some of us want to be like Americans and dumb ourselves down.

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chicken shit france

Why, because they dare to tell you to fuck off and to respect international law, and have a higher standard of education, social welfare, cultural history and standard of living without spending all their tax revenue fighting wars that weren't necessary?      

QUOTE

bullied spain

Who were just brave enough to vote the American poodle out of office so that they could make their own decisions on their involvement in Iraq and other issues? Also ditto as for France re tax, welfare, education.

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currently liberated Iraq

Watch something other than CNN.
Now where is the smilie icon for "washing my hands with you", I'm done.

[Heet]

I thought Al Gore invented the internet  

[Intensecure]

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I thought Al Gore invented the internet

No, but Al Gore surely wished he had invented electronic voting. Have a "hanging chad", anyone....?

[BloodyMary]

QUOTE (Intensecure @ May 16 2004, 04:27 AM)

Watch something other than CNN. Now where is the smilie icon for "washing my hands with you", I'm done.

CNN??? Obviously you've not watched CNN in a long time.  I have and I just watched a piece of it last night.   It was like I was watching a station broadcast from another country.  CNN clearly has an anti U.S. agenda, so I would think you would love to have Americans watching CNN.  CNN clearly depises the Bush administration and is doing everything in their power to make sure Bush isn't reelected.  I'm guessing they would rather have John Kerry in office, who would surely tear apart the countries national defense as much as Bill Clinton did or more.  All I'm saying is surely you jest when you think that CNN is feeding pro America news.

And as far as your spending figures go and national deficit... you're way off

[BloodyMary]

QUOTE (Arvarden @ May 16 2004, 06:42 AM)

I think your pic should be titled russiaville tbh... Not every country is perfect esp the US.  America's foreign policy inc Britain acts in its own interested.  So if people are getting slaughtered in various parts of world and that part of the world has nothing to add £$ wise then we'll just sit back and watch millions of people being tortured, raped and mutilated. You can’t compare Iraq with WW2, Saddam was now where near as powerful as Hitler, that’s not imo, its fact. Getting rid of Saddam was inevitable but the reasons for invading Iraq was bull poop, you know it and I know it.

In case you didn't read my post, no where did I compare

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Iraq with WW2

and no where did I compare

QUOTE

Saddam was now where near as powerful as Hitler

.  Although if you really wanted to know... Saddam's plan was to take over all of the middle-east and control the majority of world's oil supply, try to refute that point if you want, but it's undeniably the truth about what he wanted.

Really I just wanted to come in and point out that I didn't make those comparisons that your are ASSUMING that I made... read what I wrote... thanks...

[Intensecure]

QUOTE

And as far as your spending figures go and national deficit... you're way off

Provide evidence, then I'll re-read your stuff. You know that during the Reagan era the US exceeded the trillion dollar deficit mark, it was highlighted as part of the reconstruction of "American pride" via rampant consumerism.
I think, at the last figure available, 46cents in every tax dollar (ok, I generalised at 50%) goes to defence related industries, military expenditure, defence research (still making those nasty atomic weapons aren't you? Despite the UN treaty banning them, but complaining when Pakistan does it, oh wait, post Afghanistan, Pakistan are our friends...we're confused...).
If you think CNN is unbiased,   look up cognitive dissonance again. You think John Kerry is a replacement for GWB? You think it makes a difference? You think you live in a *democracy*?
Bill Clinton arranged the bombing of an aspirin factory (sorry "chemical weapons factory") in the Sudan (where they are very rich...) to distract from the semen on his interns dress. It is not a two party choice. It never has been. CNN masks such facts so that you patriotic Americans think it is "unbiased" or even biased against you.
Please, read something else on Znet, the Guardian newspaper, Indymedia, whatever, and remember - I respect your right to your opinion, I would fight to preserve your right to express it, it is just in this case I don't agree with it. (At least you have stopped calling me an "asshole" or my sort of thinkers as "self righteous fucks" - I guess that's progress!)

 

[BloodyMary]

QUOTE (Intensecure @ May 16 2004, 08:25 AM)

Provide evidence, then I'll re-read your stuff. You know that during the Reagan era the US exceeded the trillion dollar deficit mark, it was highlighted as part of the reconstruction of "American pride" via rampant consumerism. I think, at the last figure available, 46cents in every tax dollar (ok, I generalised at 50%) goes to defence related industries, military expenditure, defence research (still making those nasty atomic weapons aren't you? Despite the UN treaty banning them, but complaining when Pakistan does it, oh wait, post Afghanistan, Pakistan are our friends...we're confused...). If you think CNN is unbiased,   look up cognitive dissonance again. You think John Kerry is a replacement for GWB? You think it makes a difference? You think you live in a *democracy*? Bill Clinton arranged the bombing of an aspirin factory (sorry "chemical weapons factory") in the Sudan (where they are very rich...) to distract from the semen on his interns dress. It is not a two party choice. It never has been. CNN masks such facts so that you patriotic Americans think it is "unbiased" or even biased against you. Please, read something else on Znet, the Guardian newspaper, Indymedia, whatever, and remember - I respect your right to your opinion, I would fight to preserve your right to express it, it is just in this case I don't agree with it. (At least you have stopped calling me an "asshole" or my sort of thinkers as "self righteous fucks" - I guess that's progress!)

You are trying to twist my words to your favor... I never called you an asshole or a self righteous fuck... unless of course your are say you hate Americans... (read what I originally posted)... and in that case... your brain is far to small and your vision is far to narrow to understand anything I would/could post.. so why even bother...

Terrorist fucks that kill innocent civilians deserve death... (I'm not the one to deliver it to them)

Asshole U.S. prison guards that torture prisoners deserve to be fired from the Military and expelled permanently from the U.S.... (and perhaps more... I'll let you be the judge of that)...

and retards that constantly want to bash Americans (and yes... they are certainly retarded) deserve to be called self righteous fucks...

if any of these include anyone who reads this... HERE'S A BIG FUCK YOU to you..

[nemt]

Now while I agree the typical European's attitude is disgraceful, I don't think it would have turned out so simple.  Hitler was disgusted with America, and he hated the salad bowl  style population, he had plans for an invasion of North America with or without an American war in Europe or the Pacific.  While his forces would certainly be stretched thin, and having little support from occupied territories, the remaining allies and the US may or may not have been able to defeat the axis powers.  Clearly, though, Hitler had no plans to leave the US alone as long as he had Europe.