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[HeLiuM]

you're joking right?
first use of a nuclear weapon, set precedent (and cause) for a nuclear retaliation
use of indiscrimiate weapons of mass destruction
radiation poisoning killing many more decades after

[nemt]

Japanese culture and traditions strictly forbade surrender.  Dropping the atomic bombs was the only way to end the war without an invasion of Japan, which would have cost hundreds of thousands of american lives.

[andrusk]

The only con I can think of is that civilians had to die.  But, seeing how the japanese would not have ever surrendered it was the only solution.

[AfroThunder]

hmm yeah its hard, and the one about it creating the nuclear arm race has already been brought up, i think we won that one... next class (friday) we need to present points 6-10 and we have like only 2 i need some good stuff... we get 4 grades for participation and the winning team gets 2 extra grades..i need those grades

[andrusk]

Even if you look at it from the japenese side it would still be hard to come up with cons.  Before the war they were stugglin.  After the war, we rebuilt there country and now they have one of the strongest economies in the planet. Besides, they attacked us, so we attacked back, and we did not start the arms race.  Germany was already working on it, we just beat them to the punch.  Can you imagine what the world would be like if Germany had won the arms race?  We'd all be speaking german now...  Und würde das ya saugen?   There also wouldnt be any more jews in the world.  Yeah, so Im glad we won the arms race.  

[melon]

colonel i salute you.

Afrothunder what have you come up with already?

[andrusk]

Ok fine.  People died.

I guess whether they deserved to or not doesnt matter to you people.  I guess the fact that they died is enough.

boohoo, an attacking country was taught a lesson.  

in Justin Timberlakes words

QUOTE

Cry me a river

Oh yeah, I guess I have one more con.  Nuclear bombs are bad.  They hurt people.

[melon]

Andrusk there are arguments in another thread. This one is about helping someone please try to remain civil and constructive.

A con.

The 2 cities chosen  where not staegic to Japans war efforts but to maximise the effect the bomb would have.

[andrusk]

aight.  Im sorry.  I did take it a little too far.

so, in terms of this thread.  Here are some cons.

1.  Bombs are bad.  
2.  People died
3.  Radiation poisoning effects years later.

[nemt]

The USA left Japan little choice, as their main source of oil, the trade embargo was crippling their economy.  With religious and cultural reasons preventing an end to Manchurian aggression, an attack on the USA was a certainty.  Too bad our democrat president couldn't see it.

I'm not defending the attack on Pearl Harbor or the savage Japanese war culture, but placing the blame entirely on Japan is not exactly fair.

[BloodyMary]

QUOTE (nemt @ May 6 2004, 09:11 AM)

I'm not defending the attack on Pearl Harbor or the savage Japanese war culture

I know this is a little off topic... but speaking of the Japanese savage war culture...

Nanjing Massacre: 300,000 Chinese People Killed

That just goes to show what an evil empire Japan was at the time...

small quote

QUOTE

In 1928, the Chinese Nationalist Government moved the capital of China from Peking to Nanking. The city normally held about 250,000 people, but by the mid-1930's its population had swollen to more than 1 million. Many of them were refugees, fleeing from the Japanese armies which had invaded China since 1931. On November 11, 1937, after securing control of Shanghai, the Japanese army advanced towards Nanking from different directions. In early December, the Japanese troops were already in the proximity of Nanking. On December 9, after unsuccessfully demanding the defending Chinese troops in Nanking to surrender, the Japanese troops launched a massive attack upon the city. On the 12th, the defending Chinese troops decided to retreat to the other side of Yangtze River. On the 13th of December, the 6th and the 116th Divisions of the Japanese Army first entered the city. At the same time, the 9th Division entered Guang Hua Gate, and the 16th Division entered Zhong Shan Gate and the Tai Ping Gate. In the afternoon, two Japanese Navy fleets arrived on both sides of the Yangtze River. On the same day, December 13th, 1937, Nanking fell to the Japanese. In the next six weeks, the Japanese committed the infamous Nanking Massacre, or the Rape of Nanking, during which an estimated 300,000 Chinese soldiers and civilians were killed, and 20,000 women were raped. During the Nanking Massacre, the Japanese committed a litany of atrocities against innocent civilians, including mass execution, raping, looting, and burning. It is impossible to keep a detailed account of all of these crimes. However, from the scale and the nature of these crimes as documented by survivors and the diaries of the Japanese militarists, the chilling evidence of this historical tragedy is indisputable.

and a few pictures

[gronne]

Andrusk, I just saw the picture you posted, and no matter who draw it it's completely IGNORANT.

For a starter, you lost pretty severely in Vietnam, which lies closer in time, so what is it Al-Qaeda should learn? Secondly, warning terrorist-organizations such as Al-Qaeda with the fact that you've won a war wouldn't do much considering they don't care if they die. If they die fighting in a religious war (which this by all means is), they are only glad, since they are fighting in accordance with Jihad. So I find it rather ironic that you use the word ignorance to them since you're obviously a lot more ignorant.

QUOTE

boohoo, an attacking country was taught a lesson

This is why nationalism always has and always will be bad. So in accordance to what you're saying Al-qaeda had all the rights in the world to attack USA, you attacked them by not helping them as promised, so they struck back.
Probably no Japanese except from the armymen knew Pearl Harbor would be attacked, so does that justify that you killed 200,000 people?  I don't say Japan was right in any way killing americans, but on the other hand they only tried to kill marines, not innocents. You killed 200,000 innocent people in revenge and to tell the Japanee government the shouldn't touch USA. You count people as statistics. So did/does Saddam, but you claim you're better... "UCLE SAM SAYS YOU ARE THE BEST"   so be it.

[moistness]

[andrusk]

QUOTE (gronne @ May 6 2004, 05:16 PM)

Andrusk, I just saw the picture you posted, and no matter who draw it it's completely IGNORANT. For a starter, you lost pretty severely in Vietnam, which lies closer in time, so what is it Al-Qaeda should learn? Secondly, warning terrorist-organizations such as Al-Qaeda with the fact that you've won a war wouldn't do much considering they don't care if they die. If they die fighting in a religious war (which this by all means is), they are only glad, since they are fighting in accordance with Jihad. So I find it rather ironic that you use the word ignorance to them since you're obviously a lot more ignorant. This is why nationalism always has and always will be bad. So in accordance to what you're saying Al-qaeda had all the rights in the world to attack USA, you attacked them by not helping them as promised, so they struck back. Probably no Japanese except from the armymen knew Pearl Harbor would be attacked, so does that justify that you killed 200,000 people?  I don't say Japan was right in any way killing americans, but on the other hand they only tried to kill marines, not innocents. You killed 200,000 innocent people in revenge and to tell the Japanee government the shouldn't touch USA. You count people as statistics. So did/does Saddam, but you claim you're better... "UCLE SAM SAYS YOU ARE THE BEST"   so be it.

Im not even gonna justify that with a response.  Suffice it to say that I Hi-jacked this topic enough, and then tried to bring it back on course.  What your doing is hijacking this thread even further.  I suggest you stop, create a new thread, and maybe Ill joust with you in there.  But considering the non-civilzed manner in which you speak, I doubt it would do any good to verbally joust with you.  

Discussion over.


Post some cons you communist.


^The above statement btw is not ignorance.  Its a way of me expressing just how much I dislike you.

[moistness]

QUOTE (gronne @ May 6 2004, 06:16 PM)

blah blah................................................... Probably no Japanese except from the armymen knew Pearl Harbor would be attacked, so does that justify that you killed 200,000 people? ...............................................................  You killed 200,000 innocent people in revenge and to tell the Japanee government the shouldn't touch USA. ............................................

andrusk, you killed 200,000 innocent people single handedly??

You cold hearted bastard!!