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[TSOPrano]

QUOTE

looks like this PeAcEfUl    religion is once again showing its true colours in its bid for global domination.

I sure agree with you on that one but tell me, are you speaking of the Reborn President who controls the biggest superpower? Or are you speaking of YOUR past leader, a Christian, of course, you went by the name of Adolf Hitler?

So Heet... I'd quote what you said but it is too much to paste for a reply. What I got to say is wtf? You say what is "bad" about the Liberals and to me it seems that what you have said actually shows how great they really are. I mean, support minorities (your country is made up of minorities, and by minorities I mean anyone below upper-class), support saving the environment (ever wonder why there is so much cancer and other health problems? Destroying the ozone and air supply im sure does not help). These are all great things on the part of the Liberals. You say ask a Canadian how the health-care system is? Well, I being Canadian, can tell you that our health-care system is amazing. Yes, I admit it is going thru a tough time for the past while, but comparatively speaking to American health-care it is far superior. Tell me, if you get cut and need stitches or break an arm, can you drive to the hospital or local clinic (hell, even call an ambulance), and get it all done for free? No. Sure we pay more taxes but in the end with your 3rd-party systems of payment it adds up to a hell of a lot more. And yes, Liberals are for sending money to third world countries rather than MURDERING thousands.

What the two wings break down into is this:

Right-wing: Big corporations, influence throughout world, "we are the greatest" and "what we say goes" attidutes, throw in best interests for upper-class, and forget the lower and middle classes.

Left-wing: They are for the people. Sure there are big corporations but it is not to the extent and corruption that the right-wing sponsors. They are for the environment (and if people do not realize the importance of the environment then the world is not going to last much longer   ). They aren't for the "defense" infrastructure that the right-wing puts TRILLIONS into. (I "" defense because we all know the unjustified attack on Iraq is an offensive situation). The Democrats are not at the point of being a much superior party to vote for. I look at them, as Micheal Moore puts it, "Republicans in bad suits". The more Socialist a country is, the better it is. Do you think the USA will be the most richest country with all the Socialist powers of Europe uniting as they are now?

This thread is turning into something else, so getting back on track with the original topic...

QUOTE

And honestly, I dont give a shit anymore why arabs dont like us. Im more concerned of why I dont like them. TSOPrano get your head out of your ass and go to moveon.org where people believe in black helicopters and dont believe in God. They will welcome someone like you.

That is exactly the way the you Americans think. This is unfortunate and sort of a waste of time to make a thread like this because there are people like you. The American people do not give a rats fuck who they bomb. If the media portrays it correctly (and by correctly I mean the way the White House wants it) and gives the USA more power of another part of the world, then all is good. My head is not in my ass, my head is on very correctly and I see the world beyond my own wallet and interests. Look at the bigger picture buddy, not what effects you for the next few decades.

You say you don't care why the Arabs hate you but yet you care why you were attacked on 9/11.

Maybe if the Americans realized WHY they were attacked, there would be less attacks, and you wouldn't have to spend trillions on bombing "threatening" countries.

Oh and by the way, www.moveon.org is a great website. It is too bad there advertisment got shafted from the Super Bowl.

...and talic, take it easy on the flames.

[talic]

I mean I don't even feel obligated to make valid arguments because they would be wasted on him, just like your highly articulate although somewhat logically fallable previous post. I mean watch, he'll just respond with another article. I'm tired of taking the high road with morons, it just doesn't work. Idiocy can only understand idiocy.
Honestly, I'm a junior who is graduating early from a prestigous university majoring in political science and minoring in cultural anthropology and peace and conflict studies. I'm wavoring between being a corporate or human rights lawyer. ALL my classes and every paper I've written are about culture, international relations, and politics. I could refute every point he makes and cite prestigous professors, ethnographers, or heads of think-tanks, but what really is the point when he would move on and give you another article? His posts seriously border on the traditional definition of spam because it's useless. Why doesn't he just post a link instead of taking all that forum space?

[player1]

I have nothing against your posts although they arent my views.

This also happens to be a news section and Ive been posting news with sources .

Im not a reporter so why should I post my own stuff as you say ?

Where I do draw acception too though is guys like talic whove obviously just signed up a second accound here to try to stir things up.

I also unlike him havent reverted to personal insults to try to provoke an Isonews style flame war.

[talic]

Crosscheck ip's or whatever you people do, this is my first time here.

And if you were raised by Brits and now reside in Germany, why is it so hard to understand half the things you say?  

Haha, wow I love the "I'm not a reporter so why should I post my own stuff?" Are you really that typical? So you just absorb everything the media throws at you huh? Congratulations, you are now an official tool, wait 4-6 weeks for your complimentary t-shirt to arrive. Thanks in advance, we appreciate your business.

[HSDEMONZ]

This forum was created for the continued discussion and debate of topics that interest members. If people can't stay on topic.. without stooping to blatant name calling, slams, and other back-handed comments.. they should not frequent this discussion forum.

Using one post.. to slam members.. name call.. and suggest members are idiots.. then using the next to "hype" yourself to the membership.. is the most classic of all lame internet posts.

Either feel free to participate as an intellectual.. as you claim to be.. you don't bother at all.

[IndieSnob]

Heet: They watch tv shows and because the actors do a great job and the show was funny, they tend to believe in what the actor believes in, "Madonna supports Wesley Clarke, must be a great guy"

Me: Anyone that bases their politics because of what some actor/band/singer/famous person says means they're an idiot, plain and simple. But to say most liberals do this is bullshit, as they're people on both sides that do it.

Heet: They think war is wrong no matter the situation. If their mother was killed by Osama himself, I believe the idiot would walk the streets with a sign and defend the Muslim religeon. They will always blame the arab/american conflicts as being "about oil".

Me: That's one of the worse arguments I continually hear out of conservatives. I'm sure alot of the families who lost people due to the events of 9/11 that are liberal would love to hear you speak on behalf of them. Beleive me I don't support what the terrorists did what so ever, but to turn a blind eye on looking into why they did it, and questioning your president does not mean 'you're against us' or supporting them. If you want to blindly follow Bush in his hysteria, so be it, but we've all seen what has happened in this world when the blind follwed the blind... It comes down to we were either lied to, or had ban intelligence that led us to the Iraqi War, and since there was no link, and looks to be no wmd's, we sure picked a dumb thing to do. And how many liberals did you hear balk about going into Afghanistan after 9/11? Not too many, and do you know why? Because we KNEW the taliban had links to al-queda and had alot of responsibility for the attacks on us. I whole heartedly supported Bush in that decision because it was the right thing to do. But instead he then turned his focus on Iraq, and lost alot of his fellow americans supports and alot of the worlds when he was chasing after ghosts.

On you whole hippy thing, enviromental and all that. I agree with being responsible about our enviroment, why waste things that could help us in the long run? And again, PETA and log spikers are the extremists and are not doing what we liberals think are right, just as al-queda are muslim extremists and shouldn't shed bad light on the whole religion.

Heet: These are the same idiots that defended a president who cheated on his wife and daughter, yet claim they protect women and women's rights. Patricia Ireland (head of NOW) herself endorsed Clinton AFTER he was found to have cheated on his wife with at LEAST 4 different women. The largest voting block that voted for Clinton was women.

Me: Again, so full of shit. What does getting a blowjob had to do with nationial security or the likes? And who said we all said 'congrats bill you got a blowjob dude!' I personally find Clinton as a human to be pretty sickening, but that doesn't change my views on him as a politician. Unlike you I can seperate a politicians public and private lives. I don't care if he cheated on his wife, it doesn't make him a bad politician, and no he shouldn't have lied, but does a blowjob deserve a witchhunt? No.

[talic]

[lordvader129]

QUOTE (TSOPrano @ Apr 6 2004, 10:56 PM)

QUOTE and to all the folks to say US policy is wrong or whatever, we've been one of if not THE most powerful nation int he world for about 100 years, we must be doing soemthing right Slavery?

lets see...2004...100 years ago would be 1904....slavery abolished 1863....nope, dont see the connection

[talic]

and only reason we're the most powerful is because the top nations suffered two world wars on their own grounds. We only came to eminence I'd say late 1950's.

[scorpionking77]

QUOTE (Colonel32 @ Apr 13 2004, 08:16 AM)

HEET: The world needs liberals as much as they need conservatives.... the problem is when each side follows party lines and doesn't think for themselves.

exactly. what i dont get is why both sides always feel that their way is the only way and thats it. there are extremist liberals and extremist conservatives and the problem ive notice is that neither side trys to at least compromise and meet in the middle. Im conservative and liberal depending on the issues. but living in a melting pot like america there needs to be a compromise on both sides and stop bickering on who is in the wrong or which side is better. Democrats VS Republicans...LETS GET IT ON! .  Ask me its just white mans high power gang war. Democracts are the bloods and Republicans are the crips. Only thing missing is gang signs and confetti. Need more diverstiy in our government with more broad opinions that represents this WHOLE country not just one side, one mind mentality. But that only exist in episodes of Star Trek. One can only wish

[trandg]

QUOTE (TSOPrano @ Apr 5 2004, 05:31 PM)

After reading the thread on the murder of the Hamas leader, I would like to take this opportunity to start a new discussion as suggested by HSDEMONZ. (Just looked on Google News and found more attacks have been made on senior officials of the Palestinian militants. "Palestinian doctors said Khaled Khreiwish, a senior member of the Palestinian militant group Hamas, was comatose after being shot in the head during an Israeli raid.") So tell me, tell us all. Haven't you ever questioned why 9/11 happened or why the US is hated around the world? This is my view on the situation: The Arab's and all Muslim countries despise Israel. Why? It is because of the Zionist occupation of Palestine. Now correct me if I am wrong. The most support, funds, and general "patting-on-the-back" comes from the imperialistic/capitalistic United States of America. Take Israeli support, capitalism influenced foriegn policies, and hipocracy, and you get Muslim's at war with America. September 11th was indeed an act of terrorism, but more innocents have been murdered by Governor Bush's "guided missles" and yet we call this "helping to rebuild a nation". How can you really call the hijackings of airplanes and crashing them into buildings terrorism and the "shock-and-awe" day's and nights of Baghdad an act of help towards the Iraqi people? The Muslim's are at war with the United States and their methods of destruction are using airplanes. It is not terrorism, it is war. P.S. Is this what you call rebuilding a nation?

I  don't know how many of you have seen this, I find it interesting, but I am not in complete support of this rant.  I think some of these things like the football field are great, but other items such as Jew haters are ridiculous as you can't sum up every Arab person in this.  Miller likes to use a lot of big words to make himself sound smart, but he tends to shoot himself in the foot by intensifying his American ignorance on worldly situations.

PS Canada Rules.



Dennis Miller sums up the middle-east:



The Palestinians want their own country.  There's just one thing about
that: There are no Palestinians. It's a made up word. Israel was called
Palestine for two thousand years. Like "Wiccan," "Palestinian" sounds
ancient but is really a modern invention. Before the Israelis won the
land in the 1967 war, Gaza was owned by Egypt, the West Bank was owned
by Jordan, and there were no "Palestinians".

As soon as the Jews took over and started growing oranges as big as
basketballs, what do you know, say hello to the Palestinians," weeping
for their deep bond with their lost "land" and "nation."

So for the sake of honesty, let's not use the word "Palestinian" any
more to describe these delightful folks, who dance for joy at our
deaths until someone points out they're being taped.  Instead, let's
call them what they
are: "Other Arabs Who Can't Accomplish Anything In Life And Would
Rather Wrap Themselves In The Seductive Melodrama Of Eternal Struggle
And Death."

I know that's a bit unwieldy to expect to see on CNN. How about this,
then:
"Adjacent Jew-Haters." Okay, so the Adjacent Jew-Haters want their own
country. Oops, just one more thing. No, they don't. They could've had
their own country any time in the last thirty years, especially two
years ago at Camp David. But if you have your own country, you have to
have traffic lights and garbage trucks and Chambers of Commerce, and,
worse, you actually have to figure out some way to make a living.

That's no fun. No, they want what all the other Jew-Haters in the
region
want: Israel. They also want a big pile of dead Jews, of course
--that's where the real fun is -- but mostly they want Israel.

Why? For one thing, trying to destroy Israel - or "The Zionist Entity"
as their textbooks call it -- for the last fifty years has allowed the
rulers of Arab countries to divert the attention of their own people
away from the fact that they're the blue-ribbon most illiterate,
poorest, and tribally backward on God's Earth, and if you've ever been
around God's Earth, you know that's really saying something.

It makes me roll my eyes every time one of our pundits waxes poetic
about the great history and culture of the Muslim Mideast. Unless I'm
missing something, the Arabs haven't given anything to the world since
Algebra, and, by the way, thanks a hell of a lot for that one.

Chew this around and spit it out: Five hundred million Arabs; five
Million Jews. Think of all the Arab countries as a football field, and
Israel as a pack of matches sitting in the middle of it. And now these
same folks swear that if Israel gives them half of that pack of
matches, Everyone will be pals.

Really? Wow, what neat news. Hey, but what about the string of wars to
obliterate the tiny country and the constant din of rabid blood oaths
to drive every Jew into the sea?  Oh, that? We were just kidding.

My friend Kevin Rooney made a gorgeous point the other day: Just
reverse the Numbers. Imagine five hundred million Jews and five million
Arabs. I was stunned at the simple brilliance of it.  Can anyone
picture the Jews strapping belts of razor blades and dynamite to
themselves? Of course not. Or marshaling every fiber and force at their
disposal for generations to drive a tiny Arab State into the sea?  
Nonsense. Or dancing for joy at the murder of innocents? Impossible.  
Or spreading and believing horrible lies about the Arabs baking their
bread with the blood of children? Disgusting. No, as you know, left to
themselves in a world of peace, the worst Jews would ever do to people
is debate them to death.

I understand that with vital operations in Iraq and others, it's in our
interest, as Americans, to try to stabilize our Arab allies as much as
possible, and, after all, that can't be much harder than stabilizing a
roomful of supermodels who've just had their drugs taken away.

However, in any big-picture strategy, there's always a danger of losing
moral weight. We've already lost some. After September 11 our president
told us and the world he was going to root out all terrorists and the
countries that supported them. Beautiful. Then the Israelis, after
months and months of having the equivalent of an Oklahoma City every
week (and then every day) start to do the same thing we did, and we
tell them to show restraint.

If America were being attacked with an Oklahoma City every day, we
would all very shortly be screaming for the administration to just be
done with it and kill everything south of the Mediterranean and east of
the Jordan.

[melon]

QUOTE

Hope Bush gets re-elected and all the liberals move to Europe. Actually I think they would all run out of money and become another third world country who depends on aid from the US and then bastardize the US for not giving enough. So funny how a group of people who espouses to "tolerance" is the most intollerant. And honestly, I dont give a shit anymore why arabs dont like us. Im more concerned of why I dont like them. TSOPrano get your head out of your ass and go to moveon.org where people believe in black helicopters and dont believe in God. They will welcome someone like you.

This idiot is one of the reasons. The people of America are seen as stupid - harry potter and the philosophers stone was changed to sorcerers stone. You are seen as uneducated and ignorent about the rest of the world. Even though Britain is meant to be your closest ally what do you actually know about the place? Who is the opposition leader? Where is it on a world map? Can you name five English Cities? Do you know where Scotland and Wales are?

These may seem like stupid questions but how many of you can name the French President? Or the German, Japenese, Russian?
Part of the reason your hated is because of the total ignorance of any other country.


Another reason is your foriegn policy (I am repeating myself from another thread now), but at university in America, students who study International Relations get indocterated with the "American way" of doing things. My girlfriend Studied International Relations in England and she was taught to come up with her own ideas.  She had to look at other ways of doing things, communism, fascism, whether they be correct or not she was taught to open her mind and consider others.

It is this arrogance that the American way is correct, and the fact EVERYBODY feels  Americans hold the rest of the world in contempt (proved by the quote above), that leads to hatred. American dumb tourists are mocked and disliked worldwide

There is also the fact your multinationals in cohorts with your government will fuck anybody who gets in there way.
The IMF (basically a branch of your government), had already fucked up Jamaica and it was in a bad state. One of the last goods Jamaica could export was Banannas.
Because Jamaica was an ex-colony of ours, our government allowed them to import banannas without paying any import tax, this was a pathetic attempt by our government to right many wrongs but it was still something. The problem was chiquitos couldnt dominate our market because of the Jamaican banannas.
What was the solution?
President Clinton (at the time), took the UK to the International trade court to stop us giving Jamaica this feable tax break.
The reult?
Virtually all Jamaican bannana plants closed as they couldnt compete with the might of chiquitos. By the way where do there Banannas come from? Not one bannana they sell is grown in the USA. I know and I suggest you find out how much blood they have on thier hands!

I can give you another example, I will even keep it with Jamaica.
Jamaica use to produce its own milk, they had diary farms. An American company who produced powdered milk thought untouched market. The USA government subsidied the powdered milk too such a level it was far cheaper buy it rather than the fresh, locally produced milk.
Slowly the local diary farms went out of business, a country with already vast unemployment had 1000's more people without work. Once they had all gone out of business the government stopped subsidising the powdered milk which instantly shot up in price. Far more than what the local fresh milk was sold at, and the people had to spend a lot more of thier pittance on a basic provision which once had health benefits.
Your Governmant helped them do this!

The problem is I could give you examples in every country in the world
Here is a video which will show you how bad it is
I could mention the african women who if they became pregnant would be paid in powdered milk!



Dictators are evil. They rule thier people through fear. They come in the night and take away your children and torture and kill you. Sound like Saddam?
So why does your government put in dictators the world over. In far too many countries America has had a role in the overthrowing of a government, either by military action (troops or constant bombing?) or by supplying intelligence, training, wepons and equipment . Actually at any give time America is not in war with over 10 countries but still bombs them (IRAQ EXCLUDED). The arrogance!
But it gets worse. Your government then instals a local high ranking military Officer as a leader. He controls with the army and takes complete control. Then all civil rites go out the window as your government gives them a nice sweetner every now then. All the leader has to do is keep his country in poverty by looking after his own and nobody else. Just so American corporations can bulldoze into the country and with American government subsidies undercut any local price and destroy local industry. This has happened worldwide, creating countries of mass unemployment.

It does create a lot of jobs worldwide. Everybody has heard of a sweatshop. Look in whatever is in front of you. Where was your monitor made? How about the clothes your wearing? All American corporations are very good at this. Children the world over are brought up knowing they live in a hut with 20 others, they have to walk 3 miles just to get water which wont kill them. They know they have nothing, and every day they have to go to work in a factory for an American corporation (no weekends here a 7 day week standard), for a tiny amount to live on but they have to  as your corporations have completely abolished local industry. Your governmant backs all this and helps!!!!!
You act like a bully. Nobody likes a bully.
It rules your argument, we're not as bad as he was, redundant. Your worse.

And it all for the sake of more money for the very rich. Do you think you benefit? Sure an xbox costs $130 in the US and £130 here but you live in a country were you can be run over by a car, it drives off, an ambulance comes and if you havnt got insurance your screwed. Look at Cristopher Reeve. Superman. He was a movie star, millionare. He injured his back and the health care costs were so great he lost everything, even after very large donations from friends and for appearences. If he couldnt afford it can you?


You can attack me if you want but the question was asked and I am giving you an accurate picture of the worlds view on the United States of America. I have travelled (10% of you own a passport), and this is how everybody sees your county. These are not my views I think there are some good people who dont have a politican  to lead them. I just dont think they ever will.

But if you acctually do wonder why. You wont hear it often but layed out is the reasons backed with fact and well articulated.


edit: Your president also said the French have no word for entrapenuer.
 
(Its a french word)