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Author Topic: WAR ON IRAQ <- All Posts, POLLS, Question, and  (Read 1491 times)

Lizard_King

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WAR ON IRAQ <- All Posts, POLLS, Question, and
« Reply #195 on: May 03, 2003, 07:46:00 AM »

QUOTE (gainpresence @ May 3 2003, 04:27 AM)
I heard that he flew, but didn't land.

From where? (just curious, since I've seen precious little actual information in news reports about this)

Saddam's last videotaped address released


A full copy of the State Dpt's "roadmap" for the Middle East

The Wall Street Journal Op/Ed breaks down why exactly this plan is going nowhere

Two obvious reasons it won't:

Saudi Funding of Palestinian Terrorism

The dirtbags at Hizballlah don't have any incentive to stop: Speaking of which, how come no one bitches and moans to the UN about the ongoing Syrian occupation of Lebanon?


And, finally, in a bit of tragicomic relief:

Intellectuals Launch Campaign to Defend Cuba

That's right. In light of Castro's recent efforts to play catch up with other brutal dictatorships around the world, "intellectuals" are not only jumping out of the woodwork to defend it, but in the height of irony using it as a platform to criticize US tyranny.

Keep in mind though, that Reuter's definition of intellectuals is pretty broad...basically anyone who's left wing and loud.  I mean, Harry Belafonte?  Danny Glover?
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phantazma1

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WAR ON IRAQ <- All Posts, POLLS, Question, and
« Reply #196 on: May 03, 2003, 07:53:00 AM »

QUOTE (Lizard_King @ May 2 2003, 06:09 PM)
QUOTE (Tk0n @ May 2 2003, 11:44 PM)
maybe they dont show him in uniform cause he never served wink.gif

Can you land on an aircraft carrier?  Because George Bush just did, because he was a pilot in the National Guard.  Although to be honest I have no idea what he was thinking pulling that stunt, given that he should have absolutely no carrier experience.

i saw a TV program last week about aircraft landing and the new F-33 planes. It's amazing how they do it. The "last manned US fighter jets" can hover and land vertically now. it can also take off vertically too. Pretty cool design...
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SupeRdUPErBlakE

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WAR ON IRAQ <- All Posts, POLLS, Question, and
« Reply #197 on: May 03, 2003, 08:01:00 AM »

ph34r.gif
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Lizard_King

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WAR ON IRAQ <- All Posts, POLLS, Question, and
« Reply #198 on: May 03, 2003, 11:22:00 AM »

QUOTE (SupeRdUPErBlakE @ May 3 2003, 05:01 PM)
Who really cares about all this war stuff....its getting old.....can we get back to just flaming bagel? Thats the real war here....We are currently in the Bagel Saga. Who shall be the victor!? ph34r.gif

Just because *you* have no interest in world politics does not mean the rest of us live in such a bagel-centric world.  We are only allowed one thread when it comes to Iraq and the Middle East; if you don't like it, just stay out.

QUOTE
really? i didnt know that.

im just curious, i dont know enough of the us army structure.
whats the purpose of the national guard? why cant the regular army not fullfill this purpose?
is it a part of the regular army? and if not, why not?

thanks for your explanation in advance 


The National Guard is one of the more interesting constitutional gray areas in our country's history.  It is a long and very interesting story, but since I must take my gf out to lunch now, I will give you the short short version for now.  If you are interested in more clarifications, just ask.

The purpose of the National Guard is almost legalistic in its conception. Essentially, at stressful times in American history, governors, legislators, and presidents have struggled with the problem of how to deal with domestic unrest when it requires force, since the conventional military branches are simply not designed to take on American citizens if it becomes necessary.  I'm not talking about questions of logistics, but ones of training and psychology.  Essentially, the NG's members trade any moral issues that they may have with dealing with such tough questions for a far reduced chance of being sent into a foreign country at the vanguard of an invasion, or anything of the sort.

Mind you, they are still called in as reserves occasionally, since an active duty National Guard unit is superior to a reserve Army unit, as a general rule.

In addition to that function, most of the time the National Guard serves as an auxiliary law enforcement mechanism, in states of emergency.  In floods, for example, their manpower is used to help set up countermeasures as quickly as possible.  In 9/11, they were crucial in restoring a semblance of order, as in the Rodney King riots, etc.  

It does function, I believe, under the same dept of Defense as everyone else.  But it has its own independent chain of command.

In my humble opinion, they are a necessary part of the federal and state government's coercion mechanisms.  Their jobs lack the glamour of serving abroad in war, but that does not make them any less important.

Were we at the point they were created nearly a century ago, I would have a lot of issues with the US government explicitly wiping its ass with our constitution by designing a military force explicitly for domestic repression.  But like with a number of other long established precedents, it is far more profitable to seek to make the best of them than to undo them.  They try to legitimize by claiming it is just a logical evolution of state militias, but just because it absorbed state militias into it when it was created does not make it any less legitimate. There is no reason such a military force should be handled at the federal level rather than the state level.  It is just one more tragic step in the centralization of power in Washington rather than at the local level.

Despite their claim to be a part of the constitution, that is clearly a violation of the obvious intention of the law, which was to reserve as much power as was reasonable and practical to the states, not the federal government.

Keep in mind these are, of course, my opinions.  America's bloodiest war was fought in part over questions like these, so my view is hardly definitive.  Just correct, that's all  wink.gif

This is not a critique of the people that serve in it. They are just as likely to be highly motivated, patriotic citizens looking to serve their country. But I think their willingness to do so is founded on ignorance of America's history and what the country was supposed to be...

Damn, that wasn't brief at all. You bastard! and there's still so much more...
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SupeRdUPErBlakE

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WAR ON IRAQ <- All Posts, POLLS, Question, and
« Reply #199 on: May 03, 2003, 11:25:00 AM »

QUOTE (Lizard_King @ May 3 2003, 02:22 PM)
QUOTE (SupeRdUPErBlakE @ May 3 2003, 05:01 PM)
Who really cares about all this war stuff....its getting old.....can we get back to just flaming bagel? Thats the real war here....We are currently in the Bagel Saga. Who shall be the victor!? ph34r.gif

Just because *you* have no interest in world politics does not mean the rest of us live in such a bagel-centric world.  We are only allowed one thread when it comes to Iraq and the Middle East; if you don't like it, just stay out.

QUOTE
really? i didnt know that.

im just curious, i dont know enough of the us army structure.
whats the purpose of the national guard? why cant the regular army not fullfill this purpose?
is it a part of the regular army? and if not, why not?

thanks for your explanation in advance 


The National Guard is one of the more interesting constitutional gray areas in our country's history.  It is a long and very interesting story, but since I must take my gf out to lunch now, I will give you the short short version for now.  If you are interested in more clarifications, just ask.

The purpose of the National Guard is almost legalistic in its conception. Essentially, at stressful times in American history, governors, legislators, and presidents have struggled with the problem of how to deal with domestic unrest when it requires force, since the conventional military branches are simply not designed to take on American citizens if it becomes necessary.  I'm not talking about questions of logistics, but ones of training and psychology.  Essentially, the NG's members trade any moral issues that they may have with dealing with such tough questions for a far reduced chance of being sent into a foreign country at the vanguard of an invasion, or anything of the sort.

Mind you, they are still called in as reserves occasionally, since an active duty National Guard unit is superior to a reserve Army unit, as a general rule.

In addition to that function, most of the time the National Guard serves as an auxiliary law enforcement mechanism, in states of emergency.  In floods, for example, their manpower is used to help set up countermeasures as quickly as possible.  In 9/11, they were crucial in restoring a semblance of order, as in the Rodney King riots, etc.  

It does function, I believe, under the same dept of Defense as everyone else.  But it has its own independent chain of command.

In my humble opinion, they are a necessary part of the federal and state government's coercion mechanisms.  Their jobs lack the glamour of serving abroad in war, but that does not make them any less important.

Were we at the point they were created nearly a century ago, I would have a lot of issues with the US government explicitly wiping its ass with our constitution by designing a military force explicitly for domestic repression.  But like with a number of other long established precedents, it is far more profitable to seek to make the best of them than to undo them.  They try to legitimize by claiming it is just a logical evolution of state militias, but just because it absorbed state militias into it when it was created does not make it any less legitimate. There is no reason such a military force should be handled at the federal level rather than the state level.  It is just one more tragic step in the centralization of power in Washington rather than at the local level.

Despite their claim to be a part of the constitution, that is clearly a violation of the obvious intention of the law, which was to reserve as much power as was reasonable and practical to the states, not the federal government.

Keep in mind these are, of course, my opinions.  America's bloodiest war was fought in part over questions like these, so my view is hardly definitive.  Just correct, that's all  wink.gif

This is not a critique of the people that serve in it. They are just as likely to be highly motivated, patriotic citizens looking to serve their country. But I think their willingness to do so is founded on ignorance of America's history and what the country was supposed to be...

Damn, that wasn't brief at all. You bastard! and there's still so much more...

Dude your posts are way to long to read... huh.gif

BUT They are very inciteful. smile.gif
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sulfur

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WAR ON IRAQ <- All Posts, POLLS, Question, and
« Reply #200 on: May 03, 2003, 05:26:00 PM »

wee.....
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Colonel32

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« Reply #201 on: May 11, 2003, 10:15:00 PM »

wink.gif ..... not as much as i would have liked.... still looking forward to it none the less tho
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ArMaGeDdOn

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WAR ON IRAQ <- All Posts, POLLS, Question, and
« Reply #202 on: May 17, 2003, 11:46:00 PM »

QUOTE (gainpresence @ Apr 4 2003, 09:18 PM)
QUOTE (Lizard_King @ Apr 4 2003, 02:17 PM)
Are you kidding?  I'm serious here, he actually did this on a whim?

Well, he is Canadian you know..  tongue.gif

heh....and so am i, but i'd like to kick his ass with some crazy funky jujube love.
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Fuzzy

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WAR ON IRAQ <- All Posts, POLLS, Question, and
« Reply #203 on: May 22, 2003, 04:27:00 PM »

This thread....is....HUGE
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survivorejam

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« Reply #204 on: May 27, 2003, 08:56:00 AM »

why is this thread still pinned ?
Pleaze just let it die ...
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KenCuz

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WAR ON IRAQ <- All Posts, POLLS, Question, and
« Reply #205 on: June 01, 2003, 02:23:00 AM »

QUOTE (Lizard_King @ Jun 1 2003, 05:02 AM)
QUOTE (survivorejam @ May 27 2003, 05:56 PM)
why is this thread still pinned ?
Pleaze just let it die ...

I've got a better idea. Why don't you let the mods do their job, and shut the hell up?

Up!
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survivorejam

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WAR ON IRAQ <- All Posts, POLLS, Question, and
« Reply #206 on: June 06, 2003, 11:23:00 AM »

wink.gif
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Lizard_King

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WAR ON IRAQ <- All Posts, POLLS, Question, and
« Reply #207 on: June 11, 2003, 06:04:00 PM »

QUOTE
fletch dev I wonder what that 50% of the population is actually willing to believe. Almost anything it appears.


I don't think the surly minority that holds that Saddam Hussein and his European buddies were being forthright has much of the high ground on this one.

If you don't think WMD was a good enough reason to go to war with Iraq, fine.  But if you don't think Iraq was harbouring WMD's prior to Enduring Freedom, you are a fool.
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survivorejam

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« Reply #208 on: June 12, 2003, 09:59:00 AM »

EDIT ---> hi ! how are ya ?
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Colonel32

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« Reply #209 on: June 14, 2003, 04:14:00 PM »

i agree this survivorjam is one of the worst things that have happened to this forum

stfu guy

you are against sex, porn, weed, drinking, and politics

what do u do besides bitch and judge
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