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[Mage]

QUOTE

In short, no amount of time could account for the spontaneous appearance of life through random chance because the "building blocks of life" require the intervention of an informed intelligence to build them into something living.

That ending statement shows how biased the report it.  How can that person prove such a statement?  Random events are just that, random and unpredictable.  We do not fully understand this universe, nor what can be done.  Hell, we don't fully understand quantum physics even.  You can have two atoms linked based on their quantum state, and they can physically be miles away...
So how can someone disprove saying randomness can create things when they know not what randomness can indeed do?

[Lbtg43]

QUOTE (Mage @ Mar 14 2003, 02:20 PM)

QUOTE   In short, no amount of time could account for the spontaneous appearance of life through random chance because the "building blocks of life" require the intervention of an informed intelligence to build them into something living.

and where exactly did this "informed intelligence" that 'built' us come from? according to all the religous people, this "informed intelligence" is by far a much more complex and would require much more 'intervention' to have been built since according to that bs article it couldnt be done randomley. if it could be done through chaos theory why couldnt we? and if not who is the "informed intelligence" that built the "formed intelligence" etc etc etc that built us?

[Mage]

QUOTE (gainpresence @ Mar 14 2003, 11:53 AM)

God was never formed, no one created Him, he has always been (he created time).

If that's possible for God, that's possible for the universe itself

[Novahux]

QUOTE

God was never formed, no one created Him, he has always been (he created time).

But who created god, If god just always existed, then who created existence.

The only logical assumption is that the universe (with or without god) came into existence from nothing. Therefore none of us exist.

[XxxTHEILLONExxX]

QUOTE

this is Falconsfan In referance to theory of evolution - I also do NOT believe in evolution because I refuse to believe that a human beings came from monkeys, personally I believe that they are completely stupid species of animals.. damn look at certain types of birds... even they can be taught to talk, monkeys stick there finger in there asses and fall out of trees... LMAO ( I know you all have seen what I'm talking about) and EVEN if we had come from monkeys, wouldn't that mean that there would be no more monkey species if they all evolved to human beings. What would be the reason for there existance now Wouldn't there be some intermediate species? blonde hair, blue eyed, 6'4", tail, and all half human half monkey species now a days?

ok i think you are truley a fucking jackass...first we didnt come from monkeys we came from apes and no apes or "monkeys" are not stupid their stucture is nearly the same as us, and alot more...third the only reason why a parrot can talk is their voicebox is near the same as ours...fourth and no that wouldnt mean that all the "monkeys" would be humans there were plenty different types of "monkeys" very long ago and only 2 species were evolving (not all the "monkeys just sum") and one manged to become us and the other was the neandrothol yet the neandrothol disapereared...and lastly fifth of course there wouldnt be a intermediate species see evolutiuon occurs with a change in the enviroment as in the summer weather turns into winter weather and those who dont adapt are gone also there where so many changes back then thats why we dont look like apes cause of all the times they had to go through evolution...o yea and one more thing monkeys fling poo the get predator away... o my o my you must be the stupidest person alive

[Lbtg43]

QUOTE (XxxTHEILLONExxX @ Mar 14 2003, 03:48 PM)

QUOTE this is Falconsfan In referance to theory of evolution - I also do NOT believe in evolution because I refuse to believe that a human beings came from monkeys, personally I believe that they are completely stupid species of animals.. damn look at certain types of birds... even they can be taught to talk, monkeys stick there finger in there asses and fall out of trees... LMAO ( I know you all have seen what I'm talking about) and EVEN if we had come from monkeys, wouldn't that mean that there would be no more monkey species if they all evolved to human beings. What would be the reason for there existance now Wouldn't there be some intermediate species? blonde hair, blue eyed, 6'4", tail, and all half human half monkey species now a days? ok i think you are truley a fucking jackass...first we didnt come from monkeys we came from apes and no apes or "monkeys" are not stupid their stucture is nearly the same as us, and alot more...third the only reason why a parrot can talk is their voicebox is near the same as ours...fourth and no that wouldnt mean that all the "monkeys" would be humans there were plenty different types of "monkeys" very long ago and only 2 species were evolving (not all the "monkeys just sum") and one manged to become us and the other was the neandrothol yet the neandrothol disapereared...and lastly fifth of course there wouldnt be a intermediate species see evolutiuon occurs with a change in the enviroment as in the summer weather turns into winter weather and those who dont adapt are gone also there where so many changes back then thats why we dont look like apes cause of all the times they had to go through evolution...o yea and one more thing monkeys fling poo the get predator away... o my o my you must be the stupidest person alive

i still think the monkey with is finger in his butt falling out of trees is kind of funny

[Lbtg43]

QUOTE (DaMulder @ Mar 14 2003, 04:30 PM)

- Humans did not descend from monkeys. And not really Apes either. Apes and Monkey and Humans had the same ancestors about 50k years ago. From this species (50k years in the past) evolved 3 distinct groups: One was very ape-like, one was very human like (big brains, less fur) and one was in the middle (the neandrothol). The ape-like creatures survived due to their increasing skills in climbing and eventually managed to inhabit the trees. The human-like race managed to survive by using their brains and developing the first weapons (wooden spears, sharpened rocks) and also helped a great deal to extinguish the neandrothol who simply wasn't specialized on anything which made him a bad survivor in the wild. So that "half-monkey half-human" species you are looking for did exist but it was not able to survive.

it all makes sense now.

[Lbtg43]

QUOTE (gainpresence @ Mar 14 2003, 04:42 PM)

QUOTE (DaMulder @ Mar 14 2003, 02:30 PM) QUOTE this is Falconsfan In referance to theory of evolution - I also do NOT believe in evolution because I refuse to believe that a human beings came from monkeys, personally I believe that they are completely stupid species of animals.. damn look at certain types of birds... even they can be taught to talk, monkeys stick there finger in there asses and fall out of trees... LMAO ( I know you all have seen what I'm talking about) and EVEN if we had come from monkeys, wouldn't that mean that there would be no more monkey species if they all evolved to human beings. What would be the reason for there existance now Wouldn't there be some intermediate species? blonde hair, blue eyed, 6'4", tail, and all half human half monkey species now a days? As THEILLONE already made pretty clear you absolutely have no idea of biology whatsoever. Well, as I did my exam in Biology last year and my major was evolution let me get a few things even straighter: - Humans did not descend from monkeys. And not really Apes either. Apes and Monkey and Humans had the same ancestors about 50k years ago. From this species (50k years in the past) evolved 3 distinct groups: One was very ape-like, one was very human like (big brains, less fur) and one was in the middle (the neandrothol). The ape-like creatures survived due to their increasing skills in climbing and eventually managed to inhabit the trees. The human-like race managed to survive by using their brains and developing the first weapons (wooden spears, sharpened rocks) and also helped a great deal to extinguish the neandrothol who simply wasn't specialized on anything which made him a bad survivor in the wild. So that "half-monkey half-human" species you are looking for did exist but it was not able to survive. Also I should tell you that the genetical code of chimps is 98% identical with ours. There are only very slight differences. Chimps are basically on the level of a 5 year old human (to whom it could happen that he smells his ass and falls off a tree!). Apes and Monkey are also the animals with the most complex social behaviour. It is also very similar to ours except that humans try to override their instinctive natural social patterns with an intelectual perception of being something better than just horny animals. Well face it. We are just animals that try to pretend to be on a higher level but we are not. Still every male will try to become the Alpha male (by buying a Porsche and showing it off) and every female will try to be the most attractive one so that one day she is chosen by the alpha male. The whole human social network is not anything more than this! I know it hurts to find out but think about it for a while and you will notice it yourself! Phil Where is there evidence of these "neandrothol"s?

fossils my freind, fossils say it all

[Raised]

QUOTE (DaMulder @ Mar 14 2003, 04:30 PM)

QUOTE this is Falconsfan In referance to theory of evolution - I also do NOT believe in evolution because I refuse to believe that a human beings came from monkeys, personally I believe that they are completely stupid species of animals.. damn look at certain types of birds... even they can be taught to talk, monkeys stick there finger in there asses and fall out of trees... LMAO ( I know you all have seen what I'm talking about) and EVEN if we had come from monkeys, wouldn't that mean that there would be no more monkey species if they all evolved to human beings. What would be the reason for there existance now Wouldn't there be some intermediate species? blonde hair, blue eyed, 6'4", tail, and all half human half monkey species now a days? As THEILLONE already made pretty clear you absolutely have no idea of biology whatsoever. Well, as I did my exam in Biology last year and my major was evolution let me get a few things even straighter: - Humans did not descend from monkeys. And not really Apes either. Apes and Monkey and Humans had the same ancestors about 50k years ago. From this species (50k years in the past) evolved 3 distinct groups: One was very ape-like, one was very human like (big brains, less fur) and one was in the middle (the neandrothol). The ape-like creatures survived due to their increasing skills in climbing and eventually managed to inhabit the trees. The human-like race managed to survive by using their brains and developing the first weapons (wooden spears, sharpened rocks) and also helped a great deal to extinguish the neandrothol who simply wasn't specialized on anything which made him a bad survivor in the wild. So that "half-monkey half-human" species you are looking for did exist but it was not able to survive. Also I should tell you that the genetical code of chimps is 98% identical with ours. There are only very slight differences. Chimps are basically on the level of a 5 year old human (to whom it could happen that he smells his ass and falls off a tree!). Apes and Monkey are also the animals with the most complex social behaviour. It is also very similar to ours except that humans try to override their instinctive natural social patterns with an intelectual perception of being something better than just horny animals. Well face it. We are just animals that try to pretend to be on a higher level but we are not. Still every male will try to become the Alpha male (by buying a Porsche and showing it off) and every female will try to be the most attractive one so that one day she is chosen by the alpha male. The whole human social network is not anything more than this! I know it hurts to find out but think about it for a while and you will notice it yourself! Phil

We are at a higher level than other animals. Look around. Who's on the top of the food chain? Ever heard of any animal spending 20 of the best year of their lives to educate themselves? Ever heard of an animal writting a book, or leaving any kind of legacy to their offspring? Do animals learn from one generation to the other?

We sleep, we shit and we like sex, but that isn't to say that we are on the same level as animals.

[Lbtg43]

read this boys and girls... dont worry not too long and very interesting

http://www.ilovephil...icles.php?no=10

^'are humans anything more than gene replicators' analysis

[gainpresence]

QUOTE (Lbtg43 @ Mar 14 2003, 02:46 PM)

QUOTE (gainpresence @ Mar 14 2003, 04:42 PM) Where is there evidence of these "neandrothol"s? fossils my freind, fossils say it all

There are no fossils that show a missing link, besides a few sanded down jawbones.

[Raised]

QUOTE (Lizard_King @ Mar 14 2003, 05:05 PM)

Don't you ever watch the Discovery channel?  Parents teach their young all kinds of things, a different amount depending on how much their evolutionary adaptations prioritize such education over gathering more food, etc.  It is just that for humans it has become more cost effective to train their young to an advanced degree, whereas for a gorilla instinct will take care of most of their needs.

Exactly. The more basic the organism, the more basic the needs. It's easy to say "from a biological point of view we are all on the same level", but to discredit all humans achievements because of that is a mistake. We are all made out of atoms, for that matter, yet I think I'm more evolved that a rock.
You know a great deal about philosophy, you should know better. The simple fact that we posses self-awareness and that we are aware of our own mortality makes us distinct from all other living things out there. +


I used to think like this guy (DaMulder), but I think that was mostly due to teen angst... But f00k, to think that women try to be choosed by "the alpha male" is just plain stupid.

[Raised]

QUOTE (Lizard_King @ Mar 14 2003, 05:45 PM)

QUOTE (Raised @ Mar 14 2003, 10:30 PM) Exactly. The more basic the organism, the more basic the needs. It's easy to say "from a biological point of view we are all on the same level", but to discredit all humans achievements because of that is a mistake. We are all made out of atoms, for that matter, yet I think I'm more evolved that a rock. You know a great deal about philosophy, you should know better. The simple fact that we posses self-awareness and that we are aware of our own mortality makes us distinct from all other living things out there. I don't see what you are trying to get across.  I explicitly said that our higher level of of complexity is a special thing, and that I am not seeking to create any moral equivalency between a human and an animal/rock/shrub.  I was merely pointing out, as it is apparently necessary to do here, that there is no biological or chemical basis for believing we are unique in the animal kingdom. How is it that you know that animals are not self aware?  Moreover, what makes you think that animals, especially in the wild, have no understanding of death? Such purely semantic arguments (ie, based around human language) have little relevance in drawing a distinction you claim to be universal.

You think animals know they will die one day? That would be great, but unfortunatly very doubtful. Being aware of danger doesn't mean being aware of death.

QUOTE

Let me get this straight, you really think that humans are devoid of instinctual behavior?  Freud would have had a field day with you...

That is absolutely not what I think, or said. Hormones and instincts might influence a certain part of our behavior, but that "alpha male" crap is wrong. It's just like the myth of "maternal instincts", total crap. What is true for a pack of wolves or zebra is by no means apply to humans. If you don't agree I will elaborate.
And Freud.. Freud did some amazing work, yet he is closer to Miss Cleo than to Skinner on a matter of scientific value.

[Lbtg43]

i think being aware of danger, in some sense, is being aware of death. they are avoiding danger, why? to avoid their death, even though they may not clearly realize it

[Hulk Hogan]

I didn't read any of the posts, maniacs. Look at all the pages dude! It's way too many words for me to comprehend man! But anyway, to the question. When I hear the word universe, I assume you mean Hulkamania duuuuude! And NOBODY, not even that dirty no good Mr. McMahon created Hulkamania but the fans, brah! The fans created Hulkamania, or as you guys call it, the "universe." And at Wrestlemania I'll prove it brother!