Print

[Lizard_King]

QUOTE (gainpresence @ Feb 15 2003, 07:22 PM)

He didn't go to heaven, all the sin of the world (present/future) was upon him. He went to hell until he was raised from the dead (3 days, but you have to remember that in hell/heaven there is no time).

Interesting point.  However, I did always find a similar question interesting: didn't the fact that Jesus knew he was the Son of God make invalid the entire exercise?  I mean, it certainly removes the doubt of whether an earthly martyrdom is worth it if you are absolutely sure there is a God and you are serving him.  

I always thought  it would make more sense for Jesus to have been created with doubt, as all humans are, and to overcome that through a very human struggle; otherwise, (and I don't mean any insult) what purpose is there to the exercise except as a public relations stunt?

[socrates]

Come on people, the guy was just some creepy guy with a beard who got all the ladys to like him.....anyone here ever hear of a guy named charles manson???

[gainpresence]

Luke 3:21-22

"21": Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,

"22": And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.


Matthew 17:1-9

"1": And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

"2": And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

"3": And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

"4": Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

"5": While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

"6": And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.

"7": And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.

"8": And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.

"9": And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

[Lizard_King]

But see, that's the thing; He knew He was the son of God; He knew there was a God, and a Heaven above and a Hell below; so what makes his sacrifice so great?  I mean, relative to that of an average human who can not *know* any of these things except through faith....

I dunno, just curious.

The book that first started me thinking down these lines was "Memnoch the Devil" by Anne Rice, the fifth but unrelated book of the Vampire Chronicles.  Shows what good books will do to impressionable youths.

[jujupinto85]

well the sacrafice and the will to do that for mankind (dieing on the cross) must have been a big enough struggle,

just think...

Jesus is God so how could God make him self lowly as a man? its part of the Trinity, Christ was fully man, so of course he had to suffer the great pains of man kind, one being all he suffering from being tortured, and two he suffered from humanly struggles, one including pride....

but one thing that seperates between Jesus and anyother man was that he was the perfect human, who of course, acted the way God intended to act. he gave up the perfect sacrafice, his own free will

God gave us free will, but to give up this, our will, say to obey our parents, to listine to our elders, to listin to our military officers, is the greatest sacrafice one can make, since free will is what God gave to us not to abuse but to make use of..

Christ died because God told him to, and hence God being his father, he died on the Cross, becuase he was sacraficing himself, for the fate of the world

[ice1138]

-ice1138