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[bbzmodz]

There are also cheaper adapters based on the italian and german tutorials using a 12F628 PIC i purchased 10 of these adapters ready to fit into my 8164's for AU18ea which works out at around US$12 or $13 each

They have worked without fault and i would be happy to recommend the guys i got them from.


Cheers

Billz

[patx]

Please don't talk of clones here...12-13$ is the reseller price of the original adapter !!!! Don't buy clones, support team xbox8164adapter... The price will drop to +/- 9.95$ from next week... Your clones producer won't code you any FW...all they want is $$$ !!!

[themodshop.com]

QUOTE(bbzmodz @ Aug 31 2006, 01:43 AM)

There are also cheaper adapters based on the italian and german tutorials using a 12F628 PIC i purchased 10 of these adapters ready to fit into my 8164's for AU18ea which works out at around US$12 or $13 each

They have worked without fault and i would be happy to recommend the guys i got them from.
Cheers

Billz

What a waste of time! Cheaper adapters ? How do you figure that? you gotta pay freight and they work out heaps more for FAKES with NO support!
The genuine adapters are $20 AUD with FREE post in Australia and you only have to buy 1! . They fit perfectly, nice and neat with only a pair of side cutters to trim a bit of plastic, just two cuts.
Why would you buy fakes and get ripped off by an inferior product with no support that doesnt fit like the genuine ones ?  The overseas ones will charge $10 for freight, the costs work out too high when you buy them in from overseas.

[The Zep Man]

QUOTE(themodshop.com @ Aug 31 2006, 03:43 PM)

What a waste of time! Cheaper adapters ? How do you figure that? you gotta pay freight and they work out heaps more for FAKES with NO support!
The genuine adapters are $20 AUD with FREE post in Australia and you only have to buy 1! . They fit perfectly, nice and neat with only a pair of side cutters to trim a bit of plastic, just two cuts.
Why would you buy fakes and get ripped off by an inferior product with no support that doesnt fit like the genuine ones ?  The overseas ones will charge $10 for freight, the costs work out too high when you buy them in from overseas.

themodshop.com:

Why is it a 'fake' while it also could be an alternative? Does it claim anywhere that it is the exact same 'package' as the adapter made by patx? Does it look exactly the same as the adapter made by patx? If not, it's an alternative. Otherwise, all modchips would be 'fakes' of the very first modchip. Yes, sometimes they add new features. In this case, the feature is the price. Someone else can make an adapter for a lower price without losing money.

Some people simply do not want to pay for certain kinds of 'support'. The laws in some countries state that a webshop (or any shop in general) must give support for a certain period on the items it sells. If one of those shops sell two adapters which have the same function, off course people will go for the cheaper one since they do already have support.

I'm not endorsing actual fakes: products which try to copy a 'genuine' product exactly (including the brand name and model name, PCB design, used parts, etc.). However, I do endorse competition (alternative modchips, etc.). It's a free market. Live with it.

[offtopic]
By the way, #1 rule of designing a website: do not use an intro.
[offtopic]

[The Zep Man]

QUOTE(patx @ Aug 31 2006, 06:02 PM)

@the zep man

BTW :Clones are devices using others teams support & devs to sell at a cheaper price. It does not have to be a 1:1 copy.

Where did I say 'clone' in my post. Please quote me.

QUOTE

What about selling a product and using the competition work as support ?

That's why patents where invited. And all modchip manufacturers use the work of the competition. After all, it was one person who extracted the important key from the hyperbus...

QUOTE

What about using a public schematic to make a commercial  adapter ?

That's great! Then people won't have to solder it themselves. As long as the schematic is public, I see no problem. I also do not see why you bring this up: did you make your schematics available to the public?

QUOTE

What devs these ppls made ?!?

English, please.

QUOTE

What support will you have from them... All they want is $$$... This is a clone. period.

Every commercial company wants money. I want support from the place where I buy my stuff as a consumer (which is required by the law where I live) and do not want to be redirected anywhere else for support or replacement. You say that you don't want money? Then release the schematics to the public.

QUOTE

You say that  all chips are clones...

Quote me, please. Don't accuse me of things I didn't say. It looks immature and stupid.

QUOTE

no they are not... some teams make devs & support, this is why we got 4 generation of modchips on xbox1. If every team would have offer an "alternative" as you say

Quote me, please.

QUOTE

by cloning the first one we would have 1 generation... This is good competition to improve a product and do research to offer new features... There is nothing good in steeling devs & support !!!

They DO look at the opposition. Just look at the crapload of Xbox 360 DVD 'accesoires', for example. The same for your adapter.

Off course, software developers look at other software, but I can accept that. Most software in the 'Scene is provided for free and even open-source. An example (although not open-source) is the X2 BIOS, which works on almost every non-Executer modchip. A BIOS which is made for a commercial purpose, but still released to the public for use on other hardware.

You know what you could do to reduce competition? Release the schematics/a tutorial and keep offering your product. Look at the XERC, it works. The people who want to create one themselves will not buy one anyway, and the people who do want to buy one will turn to you because they do understand the working of the adapter, but can't make one themselves.

QUOTE

Look at the FTA receivers market since clones appeard !!! Yeah FTA receivers are cheap now... but support sucks because no one is making money anymore !!! I saw some pansat 2700 sold for 50$ on ebay... 4 months ago it was 250$... Now wonder why there is no further support or devs made. All clones buyers killed a buisness to save a few dollars... now you see these very same guys bitching cause the lack of support...Clones kill the market !!! Clones stops Devs !!!

Let me ask you a question. What do you mean with 'support'? Answering questions in this forum? I do this myself for something like two years and I have never charged anyone for it. And I am not even selling a product.

And if it will stop development? Did cheap DVD players also stop development? I remember a time when DVD players were more than $300. Today, You can get one for your TV for less than $30 from MANY different brands. The manufacturers simply create what the people want: cheap and reasonable quality and they still find a way to get profit and give support (a warranty period of so many months or year(s)...). Yes, that's right. They still 'make money', otherwise they wouldn't put their product on the market.

Honestly, if you can't do anything else instead of complaining about competition, your product must be flawed or you must be too greedy. If you simply cannot lower the price of your product because it costs too much to create it, you should find a way to lower production costs.

In the end, I do not think that you should even complain about other products which perform the same function as yours. I have seen your 8164 adapter popping up on many different (and popular) websites without an alternative.

[edit]
I didn't buy your adapter yet because I modded an 8163B and noticed how much noise it makes. Still, when I will need a new drive in the future (either for my own Xbox or for anyone else's) I will probably turn to your adapter before buying a second hand Xbox and hoping that a good drive is in it.

[classicsat]

What Patx means (I suppose) by support is that the vendors of the clones will direct you to patx to  get the firmware for the drive, which his team developed, and feels they deserve return on their development .

Now, Fakes vs Clones:

A Clone is a prodict made to be like the orginal insome aspect, mostly in how it works, but is clear it isn't the original.

A fake is made to look and work as close to the original as possible, and sold  to unwary purchasers as the original.

FTA receivers and support.

Mostly they are community or vendor supported, and are probably built and imported with that expectation.

[Navillos]

good god!!!! blah blah. just buy the original and support the guys that put the devotion into the work and not copy someone elses ideas looking to make a quick dollar. it friggin cheap already anyway! so fuck the clone and get the goods. easy enough

[Movax]

Zep Man -> I totally agree with you on this topic, and you've brought up the same points I did in the other thread. Patx doesn't have an answer for these points, he just whines about support and money. He makes things up, and ignores points he doesn't want to deal with. Reason and logic don't seem to mean anything...what I am saying is, there is no point.

Buy your adapter from Xbox8164Adapter! Everyone else is the devil!

[Movax]

patx, I'm sorry. If you only wish to contribute to the scene in exchange for money, that is your right, and no one is going to stop you. I was only trying to open your eyes to my opinion of what the right thing to do is. Sometimes seeing things from other peoples point of view can be difficult.

But if you'll excuse me, I have to go check the want adds...

[classicsat]

QUOTE(patx @ Aug 31 2006, 05:15 PM)

@the zep man

I mean FTA are cheap cause there are NOT working due to lack of BIN releases (support)... When they were sold 250$ it did cause coders were making $$$ !!! I don't care about dvd players... no support is needed for these to work!!!

A:  the box manufacturers don't provided those bins, the support community does.
B: The support commuinty that makes those bins, and the end users of them are pirates, plain and simple, and therefore desrve ablsolutely no sort of exclusivity, acnolwgement, or sympathy..

You are not a pirate, and your team deserves some acknowlegment for your work.

[Movax]

Really, unless they are coding there firmware entirely form scratch, without using any 8164b code and no xbox dvd rom code, they are kind of pirating.

[The Zep Man]

QUOTE(patx @ Aug 31 2006, 11:15 PM)

@the zep man

You only prove that you support clones with your last post!!!

You really should know the difference between a clone and a fake. If someone recreates your adapter one on one (same name, same PCB, same parts, etc.) then it's a 'fake'. I do not endorse this, because it is misusing the name of another product.

A clone is a device which performs the exact same function as the original device but uses it's own name, it's own parts, etc. Yes, the idea behind some or all elements might have been copied from another product (like how to provide the four magic signals). I do endorse this. It's like the cheapest modchip which can be flashed with the latest X2 BIOS.

Now I come to the software part, because I started talking about a BIOS. Yes, you (or a team working for you) have modified the 8164B firmware, to add Xbox functionality in combination with your adapter, and spread the modification across the scene for free. In my opinion, it's only logical that the firmware can be used with other adapters. The original code isn't made by you, you just patched it for your own work. It would be bad if you sold it. The same for the X2 BIOS. It's a modified retail BIOS which is provided for the 'Scene for free. Executer knows damn well that the BIOS will also be used for other chips, but they don't care. Their modchips will sell anyway and they will create a good standing with the 'Scene. They also can't sell the code, because they also modified it and it would be illegal. The most they can do is distribute the code (or patches) for free using third-party services (like Xbins).

Therefore, if you start crying about your precious modified firmware is used in combination with other adapters, you simply lose. You provided it for free to the 'Scene and you knew the risk.

QUOTE

We will never agree !!! I don't have to quote anything you explained it good !!!

Quoting helps in keeping track on what part of a post you are commenting on. Really, it helps.

QUOTE

Keep posting you help me make my point !!!

Which is?

QUOTE

I mean FTA are cheap cause there are NOT working due to lack of BIN releases (support)... When they were sold 250$ it did cause coders were making $$$ !!! I don't care about dvd players... no support is needed for these to work!!!

You did not have to program the firmware. It was your own choice. The 8164 works perfectly well with a 'nodvdrom' BIOS and without any adapter, using the original firmware provided by LG. It won't read originals, but it works (like a DVD drive should work). You can even use the drive with your adapter using the original firmware. You were never forced to modify the firmware for the 8164 and you knew the risks.

In fact, the modified firmware has nothing to do with your adapter. It's a nice bonus when they are combined, but not required.

QUOTE

What I mean by support is the FW work and what I mean by DEVS (devs=developpements obvious for all) is work done on the soldeless and the x360 (new original products)...

Like I said before, you are not forced by anyone (not even the people who buy the adapter) to release or update the modified firmware. It's your own free choice.

I do not see why the people who pay for the adapter also are paying for the firmware. The firmware isn't even made for the adapter. If I want to use your adapter without using the patched firmware, can I get the adapter cheaper? If not, nobody is supporting the firmware developments by buying the adapter.

QUOTE

I am not affraid of this clone, next week our adapter will be for sale on all divineos and in most modchip store...We will also release a new FW with full xbox drive emulation soon.

Like I said in my previous post, good for you. I'm sure that even the people who do not have your adapter are glad that you release an updated firmware. Keep up the good work.

QUOTE

Now that is support & devs... what your wonderfull cloner team will do for you ?!?

My 'wonderful() cloner team'? I hope you do not accuse me of creating adapters/modchips. In any case, I'm also sure that the people with other adapters like yours with the same function will be glad with the new firmare which you provide.

QUOTE

It would be very easy to make a new adapter with secuity features

That wouldn't be smart. You already released the first adapter and you say it for yourself that it is cloned already. Adding 'security features' would simply be wasting money since other manufacturers know how your adapter works. And what 'security features' would stop people from reverse engineering the few simple signals which come from an 8164?

QUOTE

but we won't

Wise decision.

QUOTE

we will support our first users as they supported us.

Not only the 'first users', also the people who did not support you in any way. In my opinion, this is quite noble.

QUOTE

You should thankx us for coding a FW even if we know there is a cloner

I do! I absolutely do! Not just the firmware for the 8164, but any modified firmware/modified BIOS/patcher/homebrew software which is made for the Xbox and which is provided for free. I thank all the developers almost every day when I use my Xbox.

QUOTE

but you prefer bitching... and you did from the start.

I never complained about the firmware itself. I was commenting on how you complain about cloners, which I call competition. You said that "they only want money" and that they give "no support". You say that you do not want money? Technically you do not give software support on the adapter. You give (free) software support to mod a 8164. The same way that some manufacturers sell modchips but provide the firmware for free (and enable it to work on other devices).

And I once complained about the price of your adapter, which is another subject and has got nothind to do with this discussion. If you put money into the development of a patched firmware which you (must) provide for free and can't get that money back using the sales of another product (your adapter) then you made a mistake by even starting to develop the adapter and the firmware.

Seriously, stop complaining about cloners by calling them 'evil'. I do not hear Team Xecuter going on about how cheapmods are ruining their product, despite that some of these products can be equipped with the modified firmware that they created.

QUOTE(Movax @ Sep 1 2006, 01:37 AM)

Zep Man -> I totally agree with you on this topic, and you've brought up the same points I did in the other thread. Patx doesn't have an answer for these points, he just whines about support and money. He makes things up, and ignores points he doesn't want to deal with. Reason and logic don't seem to mean anything...what I am saying is, there is no point.

Buy your adapter from Xbox8164Adapter! Everyone else is the devil!

I also wonder if he even completely reads our posts. The last sentence in your post really summarizes the opinion of patx. Good sarcasm.

QUOTE(patx @ Sep 1 2006, 01:07 PM)

@movax

"Patx doesn't have an answer for these points, he just whines about support and money."

What points?!? I have explained my point very well... you are the ones not awnsering to this:

Do you think the cloners will code you a FW for the 8164b ?!? They won't they are cloners not developpers !!!

Let me answer this 'point' of yours (like I did before):

I do not think that people who create a similar product will also create a firmware. Why not? Because they don't have to. They simply create an adapter for a low price and sell it with a bit of profit. They simply create hardware and sell it. That's the only thing they do. People who buy their adapters don't have to flash their 8164B at all. They can flash it (for free) by using a modified firmware provided by the community (in this case, you), but they are not required to do so.

QUOTE

Like the zep man your not even a user of the adapter... stop complaining about the price and get a job this way you will have enough money to buy...

Why can't he complain about the price? It's a free world, you know. And you accuse Lovax of not having a job. Why the insults? What has Lovax his job-status got to do with this discussion?

Job or no job, people can find something (too) expensive, whether they have enough money for it or not, whether you like it or not.

QUOTE

And yes all cloners ARE BAD & EVIL !!!!

You know, you sound exactly the same as other companies which talk about competition, like MS ('Linux is bad, because...'). Trying to protect your business is one thing, but saying that all else is crap looks simply immature and stupid.

QUOTE

I won't complain if another team release the very same adapter for another drive and do DEVS & support for their adapter...

Which has nothing to do with this discussion.

QUOTE

I will complain about CLONERS !!! But you guys doesn't even know what is a clone...I explained before what a clone was and the other adapter made from the public schematic IS A CLONE. PERIOD.

Can you (or anyone else) point to this 'public schematic'? If the schematic is public (as in public domain), then why shouldn't other people create a similar product?

Compared to MS, you say that I should not create my own operating system (=adapter) for the same platform (=LG 8164) as for which Windows (=their product) is created.

QUOTE

Support cloners if you wish... I won't support you and most ppls won't either as you saw on the other thread...

You do not have to support me in any way. In fact, I wouldn't give anything if you didn't provide the firmware for which I did not pay. If you provide a free modified firmware and I use it one day, I will thank you for it.

QUOTE

What is the problem with you guys ?!? Did I bitch you ?! Did I do something to you ?!? Why are you bitching the only team making DEVS for this drive... You don't want to suport us, fine don't, but stop bitching !!!

You never complained about us, but you did join a discussion. Wait a minute, in fact you (not the team, you) did 'bitch' against some of us, like the insults towards Movax for no reason.

QUOTE

This was my last post on clones & clones supporters, I will help PPLs that have problem with the adapter... I won't reply to flamers as they are unable to think & read... !!!

Flamers? Excuse me, but now you are trolling. I have never flamed you in any way.

I have provided answers to every single 'point' you made. You, however, cannot join a discussion without throwing insults around and calling something you do not like 'bad and evil'.

QUOTE(classicsat @ Sep 1 2006, 01:54 PM)

A:  the box manufacturers don't provided those bins, the support community does.
B: The support commuinty that makes those bins, and the end users of them are pirates, plain and simple, and therefore desrve ablsolutely no sort of exclusivity, acnolwgement, or sympathy..

You are not a pirate, and your team deserves some acknowlegment for your work.

They do deserve acknowledgement for modifying a firmware for free, but they do not deserve acknowledgement for throwing bad names around about their competition in the products they do sell.

QUOTE(Movax @ Sep 1 2006, 02:57 PM)

Really, unless they are coding there firmware entirely form scratch, without using any 8164b code and no xbox dvd rom code, they are kind of pirating.

This is another type of discussion. It would really be pirating if they sold the 8164b firmware instead of providing it for free.

[The Zep Man]

QUOTE(ciscoski @ Sep 2 2006, 09:42 AM)

You can help patx buying his adapter ...

True. It will get him money.

QUOTE

The 8164 firmware its him and his team creation and for this must contribuite ...

Wrong. The modifications to the firmware are his and his team's creations. And nobody 'must contribute'. Anybody can buy the adapter, but it's not required. The firmware (which LG made) and the modifications are freely available.

QUOTE

My mod it's free but it's hard (??) to build without experience and instruments ...

Which mod? Please explain.

QUOTE

You can use and mod it (but tell me the mod Tongue)

English, please.

QUOTE

Bye

PS I'm not a cloner i like DIY lifestyle

Watch it or patx will call you bad and evil.

[edit]
After some searching on the web, I think you mean this tutorial. Maybe it's worth translating to English.

[Antman1]

Hey pat..   On a more positive note.  I got my adapter yesterday and installed it and got it installed in my xbox and all went great!  reads media great and originals thanks to your firmware and I feel like my contibution was money well spent.  Glad I could help contribute and do my part for you guys.  I look forward to see what else you guys will incorporate into the firmware later.  BTW:  I used the guide found here: http://www.paccforce...l_GDR-8163B.pdf to modify my case to fit the drive in case anyone else asks ya and it is in english.

[xman954]

have problem with a modded DVD drive it will not read some files, it just keeps trying forever.

also when backing up "Just Cause" the folder D:\FMV is empty using a LG 8164 with the firmware flashed
and if you try to play it just hangs at loading...
does anyone else have this problem (disk is fine in a xbox with original DVD drive)