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[MacDennis]

QUOTE(Casper1786 @ Jan 31 2006, 05:00 PM)

well there is another option in the bit about these CDKeys witch actually would be great

say they added a small peice of code to the front of a game before it boots, asking for a serial code(contained inside the packaging), this key is only needed to be entered once on the system, stores the key in memory(should offer Key deletion), and call it up each time the game go's to boot, verifies and all good(data files used to verifie key should also be signed)

Nice theory, but where would the console store the keys if a harddisk isn't connected?  

[cyberg4]

To me it doesn't sound all that useful for the original xbox (as M$ will surely figure out a way to ban people using the hacked firmware on live), and seems to be a catalyst for piracy.  With the 360 it seems that it will have uses for backups (judging by the number of people with scratched disks), but doing so at the cost of giving up live is a serious downside.  the only real immediate use would be for piracy.  maybe later it could be used to run a game with a modified unsigned file (ie. map, video, etc), but initially it seems to only be useful for piracy.

[krawhitham]

QUOTE(flat235 @ Jan 31 2006, 04:53 PM)

and the "fair use" stuff makes that pretty much legal. This attack on the DVD drive *can only* facilitate piracy and cheating..

it still falls under fair use, what difference does it make if you flash the system bios or the dvd firmware to play backups


but that does not matter is is ILLEGAL either way because of the dmca

[throwingks]

QUOTE(crustyteacup @ Jan 31 2006, 08:36 AM)

i wouldn't exactly say this is a massive thing. MS control Live, its their playground, and their rules and they can change those rule anytime they want. i'm sure they could impliment checks for firmware if this becomes widespread. i'm going to have a little rant now....

this is more of a development for the 360, nobody needs a firmware hack for the xbox, everyone who wants it just hides behind the excuse of "i don't want to use my original in case it gets damaged"; well i have to ask why the hell did you buy an original game if your so worried it might get damaged? why do so many people talk about how they like using "backups" to play instead of originals in case it gets damaged. heres a thought, you bought it, so use it and stop making excuses for the fact that no doubt most people who claim to use backups have a pirated copy of the game. so long as you keep the game in its case while your not playing it, how is your game ever going to possibly get damaged? i also particularly like the phrase "i'm protecting my investment"; yeah sure you could quite easily "protect your investment" by looking after the stuff you bought without having to "backup" your "investment". if your game gets damaged you buy a new one, thats the nature of life.

people with young kids who don't want them to damage there "originals" should maybe just kick there kids outside to play on the swings instead of videogames, cause there obviously too young to play games if there going to damage them.

commence the firing squad......

The only intelligent thing you said was "commence the fire squad."
Why buy the game if you are scared it will get damaged? Ummm... to play it.
Disks scratch through normal use.
And, kids should be allowed to play games that is why they have games rated EC or E. You can't always send them to play on swings.

[krawhitham]

if it will be so easy to detect why have we not seen xbox utilites that read and flash DVD firmwares?

[Textbook]

QUOTE(crustyteacup @ Jan 31 2006, 10:36 AM)

i wouldn't exactly say this is a massive thing. MS control Live, its their playground, and their rules and they can change those rule anytime they want. i'm sure they could impliment checks for firmware if this becomes widespread. i'm going to have a little rant now....

this is more of a development for the 360, nobody needs a firmware hack for the xbox, everyone who wants it just hides behind the excuse of "i don't want to use my original in case it gets damaged"; well i have to ask why the hell did you buy an original game if your so worried it might get damaged? why do so many people talk about how they like using "backups" to play instead of originals in case it gets damaged. heres a thought, you bought it, so use it and stop making excuses for the fact that no doubt most people who claim to use backups have a pirated copy of the game. so long as you keep the game in its case while your not playing it, how is your game ever going to possibly get damaged? i also particularly like the phrase "i'm protecting my investment"; yeah sure you could quite easily "protect your investment" by looking after the stuff you bought without having to "backup" your "investment". if your game gets damaged you buy a new one, thats the nature of life.

people with young kids who don't want them to damage there "originals" should maybe just kick there kids outside to play on the swings instead of videogames, cause there obviously too young to play games if there going to damage them.

commence the firing squad......

Would you like to see a picture of the retail original store-bought Halo 2 that my Xbox Samsung drive scratched a perfect circle in?  It lags in the menus all the time....  I would sure love to be able to play a 1:1 backup of it.  I hate cheaters too, but playing a good copy of Halo 2 on LIVE would sure be nice.

[deltop]

QUOTE(krawhitham @ Jan 31 2006, 06:57 PM)

if it will be so easy to detect why have we not seen xbox utilites that read and flash DVD firmwares?

Why would you need such a piece of software?

Software is written becuase it fulfills a function. I can't see why anyone would bother to write a piece of xbox software to read or write to the dvd drive's firmware? Reading and checking the firmware isn't difficult. Why would you believe otherwise? It's done as a matter of course if you have a pc. Firmware updates are released all the time for dvd drives. TheSpecialist himself has said that ms could detect this hack easily enough.

[Casper1786]

QUOTE(MacDennis @ Jan 31 2006, 10:27 AM)

Nice theory, but where would the console store the keys if a harddisk isn't connected?  

I'm sure if you were to finish reading that the key would have to be stored in userProfile>Game save directory, i didn't word it exactly liek that but hell ur a little slow of a reader so i simplified it for ya, say maybe u have a MEMORY CARD? i dunno man think about it, a key would be so little data to store and would best be placed with the Gamesave? and me saying "memory" didn't dictate the HDD ass wad i was aware not all ppl have HDDs so don't try the rollying eyes shit

[zeroprobe]

My god how many hypocrites are there in one thread.

Its funny to me how many of you are all hiding behind a homebrew front. YEH whatever. The point been one step closer to getting "homebrew" running on the 360. So stop bitching and crying about the fact there is progress been made.

I could probably bet the house that not one of you with a modchip is 100% homebrew only.

[infinityfsp2002]

Too much uniformed or researched crap being said in this thread. Cheating is not possible on live to due to it running 1:1 copies. You cant modify the files or anything.  

MS also cannot fix this method without having completely new drives with different security, since currently any checks added could in theory be faked.

I hope this never becomes public anyway as its only for pirated copies, and too many idiots do not deserve this. Copies will suddenly be sold everywhere, and all kinds of crap.

[peregrin641]

QUOTE

Thanks everybody for the kind replies, both here, on other boards and PM's. I just reread the post from bunnie:

QUOTE

I had finally extracted the RC-4 key in early march. I remember when I first got it--it was like 4 AM, nikki was asleep and I was sifting through my LDT bus traces trying to find the key, and all of a sudden my RC-4 decrypt output histogram went off the chart and voila, there was the key! I was so excited, I blurted out the information to a few fellows who were hanging out in a chatroom with me, only to realize ten minutes later the full implications of what I had done. After that night, we all agreed to keep my finding a secret and go our separate ways. I have no idea if that mistake of mine had lead to any modchip's development, or what, but who knows; I'd like to believe, at least, that I had nothing to do with the modchips out there because of the legal implications.

The next week I reported my findings to my reserach group (who was also involved in this work), and that's when my research advisor told me to get a lawyer; enter the EFF. From march until May, I was meeting with lawyers, and sweating bullets over what MS was going to do to me. MIT was offering no support, and in fact, they had declared that they would have nothing to do with my work, because their lawyers were afraid of the legal ramifications, and afraid of MS.

I now completely understand how he must have felt  It was also 4 AM for me yesterday, when I inserted the patched drive into my xbox and inserting a backup for the first time, to see if it worked. I too felt great euphoria when it did  However, after the 'come down' you start to realise that your work could have major impact...

I like hacking. I always liked it. I like the process. Till now, nobody 'profited' from what I did. I'd like to keep it that way  People are, very kindly, already offering me hardware and even money to get a hack done for the 360. I really appreciate it, but I don't want to prosper financially in any way from my work.

I understand that releasing this hack would have major impact. Althought I seriously doubt that releasing a 'firmware *patcher* is illegal, I don't want to take my chances on it  I think anybody who wants to do something like that should ask himself if it's worth all the trouble he might get into. I feel it's not. That's why I'm not releasing anything. I hope everybody understands

http://www.xboxhacke...msg2854#msg2854

[infinityfsp2002]

Ahh, good.

[asteron]

Can't this easily be used to do homebrew?

Just place an xboxdash.xbe on a dvd-r with modified font files used as an xbe loader to load XBMC (instead of a bios loader).    If you cant use xboxdash.xbe for whatever reason you can just find a buffer overflow in any game... it should be easy if you have the ability to modify data files that were assumed protected.

[ksteiner]

The Specialist doesnt want to get in trouble with the law, thats what he wrotte. He might not release it.

[shodanjr_gr]

QUOTE(asteron @ Jan 31 2006, 08:20 PM)

Can't this easily be used to do homebrew?

Just place an xboxdash.xbe on a dvd-r with modified font files used as an xbe loader to load XBMC (instead of a bios loader).    If you cant use xboxdash.xbe for whatever reason you can just find a buffer overflow in any game... it should be easy if you have the ability to modify data files that were assumed protected.

Probably wont work. xboxdash.xbe is probably flaged with the hard drive media flag. So if you try to run it of a dvd (even using the hacked firmware) the flag and the media wouldnt match and the xbe wouldnt run. If you try to edit the media flag, then you fubar the signature and the file doesnt run as it cant be authenticated by the bios.