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[twistedsymphony]

QUOTE(Rylinkus @ Jul 1 2006, 07:07 PM)

... Name one catergory that the 240 reigns supreme outside of F&F fanboy cred. ...

Cornering? When I was doing autocross in college there was a guy with a Camero and most weeks he had to sit out simply because his car was too big or had too wide a turning radius to fit through the course  

They're quick and even if they can hold some lateral Gs they're still drive pretty heavy and lumbering in comparison to something like a 240sx

I've sworn off GM cars a long while ago... I did my senior project with them in college got to meet a whole lot of the engineers, see the manufacturing process etc... it only diminished my already poor opinion.

My father owned 2 Camaros, both of them had had bought brand new and both of them were sold within 6 months because of problems from the manufacturer that were "normal" according to the dealer. Not to mention fit and finish (particularly on the interior) has always really bothered me with GM products pieces don't seem to fit together properly gaps in body pannels and plastic parts are uneven and inconsistant. Not to mention they make all their buttons so big and round it's almost an insult to the dexterity of a videogame player.

They do a lot of things right mechanically but their final products just never gave me the feeling that they were put together properly.

[lostboyz]

I second that, Im in a ford family and it really seems that both GM and ford both have the interior problems, its just mainly because they have been trimming whereever they can. My dad complains a lot more than I do and he has worked there for almost 17 years. never had one problem on interior type of things on the honda and toyota that we own

[Rylinkus]

QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ Jul 5 2006, 04:10 PM)

Cornering? When I was doing autocross in college there was a guy with a Camero and most weeks he had to sit out simply because his car was too big or had too wide a turning radius to fit through the course  

They're quick and even if they can hold some lateral Gs they're still drive pretty heavy and lumbering in comparison to something like a 240sx

I've sworn off GM cars a long while ago... I did my senior project with them in college got to meet a whole lot of the engineers, see the manufacturing process etc... it only diminished my already poor opinion.

My father owned 2 Camaros, both of them had had bought brand new and both of them were sold within 6 months because of problems from the manufacturer that were "normal" according to the dealer. Not to mention fit and finish (particularly on the interior) has always really bothered me with GM products pieces don't seem to fit together properly gaps in body pannels and plastic parts are uneven and inconsistant. Not to mention they make all their buttons so big and round it's almost an insult to the dexterity of a videogame player.

They do a lot of things right mechanically but their final products just never gave me the feeling that they were put together properly.

And my high strung Camaro has done ok on an autocross course, so I assumed a more stock engined one would do better.

My Trucks interior leaves quite a bit too be desired in that regard as well though.

[twistedsymphony]

QUOTE(Rylinkus @ Jul 5 2006, 05:40 PM)

And my high strung Camaro has done ok on an autocross course, so I assumed a more stock engined one would do better. ...

I'm sure, but my comment has little to do with the engine and everything to do with how easily the car fits through small openings and quickly changes directions.

Hell my WRX felt like a friggin yacht when compared to my buddies Integra and the Camaro feels like a fully loaded Cadillac when compared to the WRX.

QUOTE(Rylinkus @ Jul 5 2006, 05:40 PM)

...
My Trucks interior leaves quite a bit too be desired in that regard as well though.

I can't speak for Nissans as I've never owned one but the interior of my '94 pickup, while quite dated and fugly still feels solid and put together. That is to say all the door, IP, and dash panels fit together tight with no visible gaps. My father's black Firebird Trans-Am had interior door panels fall off within 3 months, His Z06 Corvette had the trim around the stock stereo just randomly pop off as did the passenger's sun visor. He had to shove a rag in a gap between 2 panels in the center console of his brand new Camaro SS when he got it because it squeaked constantly. None of the panels on any of them ever seemed to fit together right. You'd see the style line the original designer was trying to create, flowing from the doors into the dash but it was always out of line like the door was an inch lower then they had anticipated and it wasn't even consistent between the driver and passenger side.

Don't get me wrong none of those things really have any functional pitfalls but it just makes the cars feel cheap IMO. My brother is a huge Audi fan and I must say VWs and Audis are shining examples of how interiors should fit together and feel solid. I'm not saying they're of higher quality simply that they FEEL a higher quality, no gaps in sight, every button and switch has a distinct and deliberate feedback to it and it feels like the whole thing was made from a single piece and cut with a laser the panel breaks are so small and consistent. Again I think they're total Junk for ACTUAL quality but PERCEPTION goes a long way. Even if I have indisputable proof the the GM cars are higher in quality/reliability I feel like I'm lying to myself whenever I get in one and drive it.

[ndsbass]

QUOTE

That being said, where on earth are you coming up with a 15K budget. Are your parents really rich or are you just taking out a massive loan.

well so far ive saved a little over 5000
although my family is pretty well off, my dad doesnt believe in buying a car for me, so the rest will be off a loan. I just got a job about 2 weeks ago, and it pays 6.55 and im working 25-30 hours a week. after about four months ill get bumped up and recieve anywhere from 8-10 an hour. i also have a side job where i go about 3-4 times a month to work at my friends rich as shit aunts house for about 5-8 hours and make 10/hour. my dad is the one who will be giving me the loan, and he said he wont charge my interest and occasionally he may pay some of it off if hes feeling nice.

i would actually prefer to spend more like 11-12k, but my dad's been pushing me to spend more like 18k. i decided to level it off at about 15k to leave some options open

so far heres my list of things i would like
- rwd or awd if possible
- prefereably high 100's or over 200 horses
- looks good
- lots of performance parts available
- manual (some cars are only auto)
*new*
- my dad is really worried about safety now, which is kinda ironic considering his chevelle ss, but the car should be a 2000 (year) or higher

im still interested in the celica since its perfect for my price range, but i wish it wasnt fwd

my dad is interested in the 06 eclipse (looks pretty nice, much better than the previous gen.) or a lancer ralliart. although the lancer ralliart wouldnt be too bad they are still both fwd which sucks but w/e

although i love the older z28 muscle cars, im not as fond of the newer ones, although its definately an option.

anyways thanks again for all the help

[555ETHEN]

Im looking into those same specs as you are, except the 2000+, Im looking for more like 1995+, but still.

I'v been looking at the Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX



Thats a 1995-1999 Model and it is looking pretty good for my first car.

[thewickedjester]

QUOTE

my dad is the one who will be giving me the loan, and he said he wont charge my interest and occasionally he may pay some of it off if hes feeling nice.

[555ETHEN]

I might get a bike too, cheaper, cheaper insurance and personally better and easier for me to drive.

[thewickedjester]

QUOTE(555ETHEN @ Jul 7 2006, 05:02 PM)

I might get a bike too, cheaper, cheaper insurance and personally better and easier for me to drive.

1) Yes, they are cheaper, and they are a LOT of fun
2) Cheaper insurance? I doubt it... Not unless you are talking a Honda CUB (hehe)
3) Bikes are a lot of fun, why I am trying to get one myself, but what happens when it rains? Or when theres ice on the road? Or when you  have a long commute? Or when your back hurts and you dont want to sit in that position? To hot to ride, etc etc. There are a lot of downsides, get a bike after a car. My plan is to drive the bike mostly for daily commuting (to work, college, etc etc) and drive the car pretty much everywhere else, you would be supprised at how much gas goes into those few miles every day.

[Tripme]

Ya, at least take out a small loan from the bank.  We (my parents and I) paid cash for most of my car and then I was able to take out a $1500 loan in my name.  Really easy to pay back.  Im 18 and it should get me off on some good credit along with paying my cell phone bill.

[jesterrace777]

QUOTE(555ETHEN @ Jul 6 2006, 09:08 PM)

Im looking into those same specs as you are, except the 2000+, Im looking for more like 1995+, but still.

I'v been looking at the Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX



Thats a 1995-1999 Model and it is looking pretty good for my first car.

Mitsubishis are nice looking cars to be sure and they can be made very easily into fast beasts.  HOWEVER, the parts for them are expensive and they are VERY HIGH MAINTENENCE vehicles.   Honestly, I wouldn't trust ANY mitsubishi beyond 100,000K miles.  They are subject to crankwalk, severe issues with the timing belt, poor seals (which often lead to burning oil at a very early stage in the cars life) not to mention interiors that fall apart quickly.  Mitsubishis sucker people in with an a nice looking car and great performance at a low price, but they are very much a "buy now, pay later" type of vehicle as you will more than pay for the vehicle with maintenence.

[ndsbass]

well i ended up getting a 2002 celica gts 6 speed manual for 13500. i love it, and its alot of fun to drive. plus the person who owned it before me put on an aftermarket exhaust (caracing, generic pep-boys brand im assuming) and although it sounds a little ricey i like it. problem is its too loud, its straight pipes from the cat back to the exhaust tip. anyways heres some pics



exhaust


thanks for all the help everyone